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HHC On Tibus Heth / Diana Kim Admits Heth's Failures!
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Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#61 - 2016-07-22 15:38:23 UTC
Mika Firestorm wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:

I am also pleasantly surprised you have defended Tibus Heth.

I didn't defend Heth. And I dislike the guy. Also I dislike the guy who twisted historical facts because of guy he disliked. And I disliked him for this.

I have defended the history.

As for Heth himself... I believe he was not suitable for management. Oh, and please, just don't start that I insult him or something like that. I am not going to question his "heroic" deeds, that you so love to cite, nor going to call him names or make up stuff about him. This is just my opinion, that he, while was defending and establishing meritocracy in the State was lacking merit to rule himself. His rhetoric was that "only merited shall rule". But he got his position not himself, not by his merits. He was appointed and pushed by others.

How dare you tell it wasn't meritocratic!!
Maybe he didn't get the position himself, but he was raised by others because of his merits. Whole Chief Executive Panel, consisting of all the CEO of Caldari State megacorporations has named him the Executor. He was Sobaseki of our era.

Mika Firestorm wrote:

Who would they be, I don't know. Maybe, someone from CEP. But maybe someone even from the other side of the trenches. Have you ever thought, that name Xavier Black sounds suspiciously gallentean? While Tibus Heth was raising the State to war against Federation, was capturing (Im sorry, liberating...) planets, someone on the other side was raising in power and getting authorities they would never be able to achieve without Heth.

Have you thought, that without Heth people like Mentas Blaque wouldn't get his Black Eagles going? He almost turned now the Federation into police state, where his peoples can drag peoples away and even kill them without trial. You don't even have to fight against the Federation open to be dragged by them, you just need to say something good about Caldari, and you will be marked only for that. They even have power to read and listen your private communication going through Federal networks they have access to. And while officially Federation claims to be all about freedom, I don't think I can name where your thoughts will be controlled harder than there.

This all became possible only because someone pushed Heth to a position of authority in the State. Now, what would you think, who could it be?

Your idea is revolting! I believe though someone from the CEP could have helped him.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Slayer Liberator
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#62 - 2016-07-22 19:34:08 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
Mika Firestorm wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:

I am also pleasantly surprised you have defended Tibus Heth.

I didn't defend Heth. And I dislike the guy. Also I dislike the guy who twisted historical facts because of guy he disliked. And I disliked him for this.

I have defended the history.

As for Heth himself... I believe he was not suitable for management. Oh, and please, just don't start that I insult him or something like that. I am not going to question his "heroic" deeds, that you so love to cite, nor going to call him names or make up stuff about him. This is just my opinion, that he, while was defending and establishing meritocracy in the State was lacking merit to rule himself. His rhetoric was that "only merited shall rule". But he got his position not himself, not by his merits. He was appointed and pushed by others.

How dare you tell it wasn't meritocratic!!
Maybe he didn't get the position himself, but he was raised by others because of his merits. Whole Chief Executive Panel, consisting of all the CEO of Caldari State megacorporations has named him the Executor. He was Sobaseki of our era.

Mika Firestorm wrote:

Who would they be, I don't know. Maybe, someone from CEP. But maybe someone even from the other side of the trenches. Have you ever thought, that name Xavier Black sounds suspiciously gallentean? While Tibus Heth was raising the State to war against Federation, was capturing (Im sorry, liberating...) planets, someone on the other side was raising in power and getting authorities they would never be able to achieve without Heth.

Have you thought, that without Heth people like Mentas Blaque wouldn't get his Black Eagles going? He almost turned now the Federation into police state, where his peoples can drag peoples away and even kill them without trial. You don't even have to fight against the Federation open to be dragged by them, you just need to say something good about Caldari, and you will be marked only for that. They even have power to read and listen your private communication going through Federal networks they have access to. And while officially Federation claims to be all about freedom, I don't think I can name where your thoughts will be controlled harder than there.

This all became possible only because someone pushed Heth to a position of authority in the State. Now, what would you think, who could it be?

Your idea is revolting! I believe though someone from the CEP could have helped him.

Revolting to you maybe but that doesn't rule it out completely
Mika Firestorm
Your Friendly Neighborhood Logistics
#63 - 2016-07-23 11:24:50 UTC
Oh, dear...

But okay, since we are talking about gallente conspiracies, how about another one. A hypothesis, of course. Think about it, who would be this mysterious Xavier Black? Xavier is obvious gallente name, but Black? Do you know, how the word 'black' sound on gallentean? It is 'noir'. Do you think it is a coincidence that Federal Admiral had the same surname?

What if it was our old man Alexander all the time?

State the nature of your medical emergency
Slayer Liberator
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#64 - 2016-07-23 14:59:04 UTC
Mika Firestorm wrote:
Oh, dear...

But okay, since we are talking about gallente conspiracies, how about another one. A hypothesis, of course. Think about it, who would be this mysterious Xavier Black? Xavier is obvious gallente name, but Black? Do you know, how the word 'black' sound on gallentean? It is 'noir'. Do you think it is a coincidence that Federal Admiral had the same surname?

What if it was our old man Alexander all the time?

Could be
Nitshe Razvedka
#65 - 2016-07-23 19:01:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Nitshe Razvedka
This is just the time to announce the planning phase of the TIBUS HETH official Empire Monument. The planning committee is at odds as to where to site the structure. We throw it open to the public for suggestions.

Thieving pirates discuss INTEGRITY; Anarchist gankers give us LAWS; and Whoring merc's cry then blow off clients with INSULTS.

Up is down and down is up in the C&P Forum.
Slayer Liberator
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#66 - 2016-07-23 20:24:33 UTC
Nitshe Razvedka wrote:
This is just the time to announce the planning phase of the TIBUS HETH official Empire Monument. The planning committee is at odds as to where to site the structure. We throw it open to the public for suggestions.

How about the core
Tarek Raimo
Eleutherian Guard
#67 - 2016-07-24 00:36:21 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:

(Note that three of them were killed by the Federation - and people ask why we hold a grudge!)


... and Visera Yanala was killed by Tibus Heth.
Nitshe Razvedka
#68 - 2016-07-24 07:10:58 UTC
Slayer Liberator wrote:
Nitshe Razvedka wrote:
This is just the time to announce the planning phase of the TIBUS HETH official Empire Monument. The planning committee is at odds as to where to site the structure. We throw it open to the public for suggestions.

How about the core


You mean core as in centre? The direct centre of Empire?

Thieving pirates discuss INTEGRITY; Anarchist gankers give us LAWS; and Whoring merc's cry then blow off clients with INSULTS.

Up is down and down is up in the C&P Forum.
Nick Bete
Highsec Haulers Inc.
#69 - 2016-07-24 07:30:56 UTC
Slayer Liberator wrote:
Nitshe Razvedka wrote:
This is just the time to announce the planning phase of the TIBUS HETH official Empire Monument. The planning committee is at odds as to where to site the structure. We throw it open to the public for suggestions.

How about the core

The core of a neutron star? Yes please.
Tarek Raimo
Eleutherian Guard
#70 - 2016-07-24 08:11:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Tarek Raimo
Diana Kim wrote:


As for the treaty that Foiritan has signed with Heth, it was violated of course... by gallenteans, of course. In YC115 with their 'Operation Highlander', when they smuggled clone soldiers to Caldari Prime and attempted to occupy our home world once again. Thanks to our own valiant ground troops the invasion was halted, but for now about half of our planet is still in enemy's hands.


This is factually incorrect. Operation Highlander was fully sanctioned by CONCORD after Tibus Heth gave the order to use the Shiigeru's weaponry against the people of Caldari Prime. An order which Admiral Visera Yanala refused to follow. A humanitarian act that cost her life.

I would also like to point out that Caldari Prime is not "in the enemy's hands" but it is a demilitarised world where citizens of Gallente and Caldari origin live together peacefully. It could serve as an example for both our nations, but unfortunately militant Provists like you and the nationalist hardliners in the Gallente Federation will do everything to keep us separated.

Unfortunately I have to admit that the power of the Black Eagles and the warmongers of Roden's military-industrial complex have far too much influence and power while the checks and balances of our nation have been eroded by them. I myself am labelled a criminal by the enforcers of that government despite the fact that I have dedicated myself to the protection of the defenceless baseliners in the border zone. Since I have never done any harm to civilians or Federation property, I can only assume that this is a politically motivated decision which is intended to silence dissenting opinions like mine.
Nitshe Razvedka
#71 - 2016-07-24 08:19:35 UTC
Nick Bete wrote:
Slayer Liberator wrote:
Nitshe Razvedka wrote:
This is just the time to announce the planning phase of the TIBUS HETH official Empire Monument. The planning committee is at odds as to where to site the structure. We throw it open to the public for suggestions.

How about the core

The core of a neutron star? Yes please.


I am sure you were asleep during your astrophysics lecture that morning. Neutron stars are one of the smallest and densest celestial objects known to exist in the Universe. Seems a little tight to push Heth's monument there.

However, if we placed a translucent statue of Heth at the polar north of a neutron star, pulsar beams of electromagnetic radiation would send his giant image light-years across the universe.

Seems I am continually casting pearls before swine. Only another Caldari of my vast intellect could appreciate my brilliance. Literally in this particular proposal.

Thieving pirates discuss INTEGRITY; Anarchist gankers give us LAWS; and Whoring merc's cry then blow off clients with INSULTS.

Up is down and down is up in the C&P Forum.
Tarek Raimo
Eleutherian Guard
#72 - 2016-07-24 08:37:09 UTC
Nitshe Razvedka wrote:

However, if we placed a translucent statue of Heth at the polar north of a neutron star, pulsar beams of electromagnetic radiation would send his giant image light-years across the universe.


I support this proposal. The whole cluster can use a constant reminder of where extreme nationalism and bigotry can lead. Tibus Heth would serve perfectly for that purpose.
Tarek Raimo
Eleutherian Guard
#73 - 2016-07-24 08:47:40 UTC
Mika Firestorm wrote:

But okay, since we are talking about gallente conspiracies, how about another one. A hypothesis, of course. Think about it, who would be this mysterious Xavier Black? Xavier is obvious gallente name, but Black? Do you know, how the word 'black' sound on gallentean? It is 'noir'. Do you think it is a coincidence that Federal Admiral had the same surname?

What if it was our old man Alexander all the time?


Unlikely.

Alexander Noir was a veteran of the first Caldari-Gallente war and had been a supporter of peace for many decades before the Malkalen Incident. Something else must have happened there. If I remember correctly from the Senate commission report, his fellow officers reported that his behaviour was strange and uncharacteristic throughout the day.

While it was not widely known that Sansha's Nation had reformed itself in Stain, I would not rule out the possibility that Sansha operatives could have used mind-control implants to direct his actions. After all, as we know today, the Sansha benefited significantly from the fact that our nations are at war and could not muster an effective concerted defence against their incursions which they must have been preparing for even then.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#74 - 2016-07-24 11:46:47 UTC
Tarek Raimo wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:

(Note that three of them were killed by the Federation - and people ask why we hold a grudge!)


... and Visera Yanala was killed by Tibus Heth.

This is an ignorant point of view of those, who don't respect Caldari traditions and don't understand what does Tea Ceremony really mean.

The cup of tea is presented to a person who is believed to be wrong, and that person accepts the cup only if he believes himself doing something wrong. Accepting the tea, they accept their guilt and they submit themselves to the divine judgement for their actions. If the Maker will consider them worthy, they will be spared. Well, mythological part aside, scientifically it would be a test how strong a certain Caldari gene is expressed in them. But in any way, the most important part of the Ceremony is that the one who drinks the tea ACCEPTS IT WILLINGLY.

Those, who make the tea give honor to those, whom they prepare it for.

Now, returning back to Adm. Yanala. If she wouldn't have taken the tea, she would have presented to the tribunal. What she did and how many peoples she saved isn't really important. What the tribunal would judge her for would be a questioning whether she has executed all the orders she was given, and whether she has used the ship in most efficient way before it went down. I don't know what exactly happened there, which orders she was given or not... but there is definitely something wrong with a titan don't using a main weapon against hostile invading force. I am pretty sure that after tribunal her name could be covered in shame.

We have quite a lot of laws and codes, that we shall follow. Some of them contradict each other. For example, you could be sent to guard and save people, but a direct order contradict your task. Whether you will walk one way or another, you will have to violate something. And the situation where you commit one crime to not commit another one is common. And you lose your head for this, and you go for it with knowing that the death awaits you for your choice. Because this is Caldari way.

Tibus Heth helped Adm. Yanala to restore her honor. Now her military crimes are forgotten and she is revered as a national hero, because she disarmed the vessel and the damage the gallenteans caused to Caldari Prime with their treacherous attack and occupation attempt was minimized.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Tarek Raimo
Eleutherian Guard
#75 - 2016-07-24 12:48:30 UTC
I too come from a society where tradition and the integrity of personal dignity are considered very important.
That is exactly why I can recognize when such traditions are being bent for personal reasons to force someone into suicide. It honours Admiral Yanala that she went into that situation without protest, but it is no coincidence that the CEP demanded an explanation from Heth for the proceedings.

If he had acted according to the rules of honour and tradition, he would have faced the CEP. Rather than doing so, he chose open insurrection and was treated accordingly. For all his grandstanding and moralising he turned out to be nothing but a self-serving terrorist at the end.
Slayer Liberator
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#76 - 2016-07-24 13:59:51 UTC
Tarek Raimo wrote:
Nitshe Razvedka wrote:

However, if we placed a translucent statue of Heth at the polar north of a neutron star, pulsar beams of electromagnetic radiation would send his giant image light-years across the universe.


I support this proposal. The whole cluster can use a constant reminder of where extreme nationalism and bigotry can lead. Tibus Heth would serve perfectly for that purpose.

I second this proposal
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#77 - 2016-07-24 14:15:05 UTC
Tarek Raimo wrote:
For all his grandstanding and moralising he turned out to be nothing but a self-serving terrorist at the end.

At first I thought you could be a respectable human and opponent and could maintain proper and civil conversation...

But it turns out you are nothing but a petty scum, who degraded himself by public insults to Caldari fallen soldier and hero...

Thus I don't think that further conversation with you could be fruitful or pleasant considering your ignorant and aggressive stance.



And for the future. Terrorist is the one who has committed a terror act. Using this word as insult is at least stupid. And it is stupid twice if there were no terror acts.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Tarek Raimo
Eleutherian Guard
#78 - 2016-07-24 18:50:06 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:

And for the future. Terrorist is the one who has committed a terror act. Using this word as insult is at least stupid. And it is stupid twice if there were no terror acts.


It wasn't me who labelled Tibus Heth and the Templis Dragonaurs terrorists. It was the Caldari Navy itself

I agree that further discussion is not fruitful.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#79 - 2016-07-24 19:02:59 UTC
Tarek Raimo wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:

And for the future. Terrorist is the one who has committed a terror act. Using this word as insult is at least stupid. And it is stupid twice if there were no terror acts.


It wasn't me who labelled Tibus Heth and the Templis Dragonaurs terrorists. It was the Caldari Navy itself

I agree that further discussion is not fruitful.

But it was YOUR word, that YOU said.

And YOU didn't say what exact terror act he committed. Because he obviously didn't.

This is why the further conversation is not fruitful.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Kumi Katikama
Doomheim
#80 - 2016-07-24 19:52:53 UTC
I have requested this thread closed. No amount of money is worth dealing with Kim.