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Every year, there are less users playing, why??

First post
Author
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#261 - 2016-07-23 22:31:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
Teckos Pech wrote:
Nana Skalski wrote:

The process you are referring is called propaganda. And it had and audience that is fitting, gankers. In a open world PvP game. Whats so special? That somebody uses propaganda? Its goonswarm thing. James was from Goonswarm.


No. It is called emergence (which is a real field of study) and spontaneous order. It it something that fascinates me in economics and in this game.

See, you just are not getting where I am coming from.

I know about James, I personally think he is an arrogant gas bag who loves the sound of his own voice. And when it comes to writing is completely incontinent. And, if James literally quit tomorrow I'm betting CODE. would still be here.

As for Goons, I know about Goons. In fact, I have been on both sides of the Goons/anti-Goons conflict. I have been in an alliance that was part of the GBC and then later the Imperium. Goons are also fascinating to me. What makes them so damn formidable is their cohesiveness as a group. The GBC had nothing like it, in fact some members of the GBC and BoB specifically hated other members almost as much as they despised Goons.

They are all indoctrinated.
And how do you differentiate emergence from finely crafted propaganda, with stories and character, with idea of code of high sec and false prophet styled persona behind it? It was all crafted I tell ya.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#262 - 2016-07-23 22:37:15 UTC
Nana Skalski wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:

What we do know, for a fact, is you want to change the fundamental nature of the game. You argue it will make the game better and I'm pointing out that those who like the FFA PvP nature of the game would disagree...and many of those who are still left would leave. So why should we believe you that if we want a FFA PvP game it would be better for us to remove that aspect?

So we will have to wait untill so much people play this game as in 2003 when it started. So big number will probably make them use the alternative option.


I think CCP is locked into a strategy that is going to take us to that level of players logged in at this point.

They could undo things like watchlists, reduce the cost of war decs and I doubt it would stop the trend. Sometimes you can't go back.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Utremi Fasolasi
La Dolce Vita
#263 - 2016-07-23 22:39:16 UTC
Roenok Baalnorn wrote:
People went to the F2P market which actually isnt F2P and is more expensive than a sub game. There are people who spend hundreds of dollars A DAY on these games.


Literally thousands or tens of thousands even.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#264 - 2016-07-23 22:39:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Nana Skalski wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Nana Skalski wrote:

The process you are referring is called propaganda. And it had and audience that is fitting, gankers. In a open world PvP game. Whats so special? That somebody uses propaganda? Its goonswarm thing. James was from Goonswarm.


No. It is called emergence (which is a real field of study) and spontaneous order. It it something that fascinates me in economics and in this game.

See, you just are not getting where I am coming from.

I know about James, I personally think he is an arrogant gas bag who loves the sound of his own voice. And when it comes to writing is completely incontinent. And, if James literally quit tomorrow I'm betting CODE. would still be here.

As for Goons, I know about Goons. In fact, I have been on both sides of the Goons/anti-Goons conflict. I have been in an alliance that was part of the GBC and then later the Imperium. Goons are also fascinating to me. What makes them so damn formidable is their cohesiveness as a group. The GBC had nothing like it, in fact some members of the GBC and BoB specifically hated other members almost as much as they despised Goons.

They are all indoctrinated.
And how do you differentiate emergence from finely crafted propaganda, with stories and character, with idea of code of high sec and false prophet styled persona behind it? It was all crafted I tell ya.
Propaganda is a part of the meta game that uses the real world skills of players to influence in-game outcomes, and meta gaming is widely recognised as a form of emergent game play.

The entire purpose of propaganda throughout the ages in the real world has been to deceive the populace by improving morale and vilifying the enemy, to see it being used for the same purposes in a game is not surprising.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#265 - 2016-07-23 22:47:39 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Nana Skalski wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:

What we do know, for a fact, is you want to change the fundamental nature of the game. You argue it will make the game better and I'm pointing out that those who like the FFA PvP nature of the game would disagree...and many of those who are still left would leave. So why should we believe you that if we want a FFA PvP game it would be better for us to remove that aspect?

So we will have to wait untill so much people play this game as in 2003 when it started. So big number will probably make them use the alternative option.


I think CCP is locked into a strategy that is going to take us to that level of players logged in at this point.

They could undo things like watchlists, reduce the cost of war decs and I doubt it would stop the trend. Sometimes you can't go back.

Let them choose what future they will prepare. These things you are talking about, already were.
With tweaking them and not changing in general only uncover flaws for more people. So is general impresion when I see how it all comes into. So that was my proposition to completely shift the narration in High sec.

Maybe CCP wants just that. To more players accept it when it comes. That would explain the watchlist change and them not doing anything about it.

In that case, I have already won, and can tell you all to go play other game. Cool
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#266 - 2016-07-23 22:50:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Nana Skalski wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Nana Skalski wrote:

The process you are referring is called propaganda. And it had and audience that is fitting, gankers. In a open world PvP game. Whats so special? That somebody uses propaganda? Its goonswarm thing. James was from Goonswarm.


No. It is called emergence (which is a real field of study) and spontaneous order. It it something that fascinates me in economics and in this game.

See, you just are not getting where I am coming from.

I know about James, I personally think he is an arrogant gas bag who loves the sound of his own voice. And when it comes to writing is completely incontinent. And, if James literally quit tomorrow I'm betting CODE. would still be here.

As for Goons, I know about Goons. In fact, I have been on both sides of the Goons/anti-Goons conflict. I have been in an alliance that was part of the GBC and then later the Imperium. Goons are also fascinating to me. What makes them so damn formidable is their cohesiveness as a group. The GBC had nothing like it, in fact some members of the GBC and BoB specifically hated other members almost as much as they despised Goons.

They are all indoctrinated.
And how do you differentiate emergence from finely crafted propaganda, with stories and character, with idea of code of high sec and false prophet styled persona behind it? It was all crafted I tell ya.
Propaganda is a part of the meta game that uses the real world skills of players to influence in-game outcomes, and meta gaming is widely recognised as a form of emergent game play.

The entire purpose of propaganda throughout the ages in the real world has been to deceive the populace by improving morale and vilifying the enemy, to see it being used for the same purposes in a game is not surprising.

So its actually all the same. Propaganda is emergent gameplay. And its nothing special, as I wrote earlier. The way all was arranged is calling for set up. Emerging set up. Its to fight the high sec. And move everybody to null. To goons.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#267 - 2016-07-23 23:03:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Nana Skalski wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Nana Skalski wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:

What we do know, for a fact, is you want to change the fundamental nature of the game. You argue it will make the game better and I'm pointing out that those who like the FFA PvP nature of the game would disagree...and many of those who are still left would leave. So why should we believe you that if we want a FFA PvP game it would be better for us to remove that aspect?

So we will have to wait untill so much people play this game as in 2003 when it started. So big number will probably make them use the alternative option.


I think CCP is locked into a strategy that is going to take us to that level of players logged in at this point.

They could undo things like watchlists, reduce the cost of war decs and I doubt it would stop the trend. Sometimes you can't go back.

Let them choose what future they will prepare. These things you are talking about, already were.
With tweaking them and not changing in general only uncover flaws for more people. So is general impresion when I see how it all comes into. So that was my proposition to completely shift the narration in High sec.

Maybe CCP wants just that. To more players accept it when it comes. That would explain the watchlist change and them not doing anything about it.

In that case, I have already won, and can tell you all to go play other game. Cool


Doesn't matter what CCP does about the watchlist IMO. They can do whatever they like, the damage is done, and undoing or implementing something new is likely to have little to no effect.

And you sure seem to want to have your cake and eat it too. On the one hand the game is dominated by HTFU types....but now you expect these very same players to accept the destruction of the game as they know and...keep paying? Really?

War decs, the general concept, is not a flaw. For the players you represent though, it is a flaw. Same thing with ganking. It is not a flaw, the game was designed that way. For the players you represent it is a flaw.

It is only a flaw if you think EVE was like other MMOs that are NOT FFA PvP games. When you realize EVE is a FFA PvP game it becomes clear it is not a flaw, but a deliberate game design aspect.

Edit: When I say little to no effect I mean that in regards to blanket war decs and large war dec alliances. It might bring back focused war decs, but even that could be "bad" in that instead of smaller entities doing it you'll have a larger group doing it making it an overwhelming thing for smaller corps. Like I said, CCP has made a number of stupid blunders, IMO. Very stupid blunders. Evidence: peak players logged in 30,000 or so on a good day. A few years ago that was the AVERAGE for the whole day.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#268 - 2016-07-23 23:04:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Nana Skalski wrote:
So its actually all the same. Propaganda is emergent gameplay. And its nothing special, as I wrote earlier.
Emergent gameplay that affects in game outcomes with game mechanics is actually fairly rare, and thus somewhat special; there aren't many games that give the freedoms necessary for it to arise. Propaganda is more common but rarely as effective in games that don't allow for emergent use of game mechanics.

Quote:
The way all was arranged is calling for set up. Emerging set up. Its to fight the high sec. And move everybody to null. To goons.
Does Dinsdale know that you've been snorting his stash?

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#269 - 2016-07-23 23:07:43 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Nana Skalski wrote:
So its actually all the same. Propaganda is emergent gameplay. And its nothing special, as I wrote earlier.
Emergent gameplay is actually fairly rare, and thus somewhat special; there aren't many games that give the freedoms necessary for it to arise.

Quote:
The way all was arranged is calling for set up. Emerging set up. Its to fight the high sec. And move everybody to null. To goons.
Does Dinsdale know that you've been snorting his stash?


You know you've been reading the forums too much when you get the Dinsdale reference..... Big smile

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#270 - 2016-07-23 23:10:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Teckos Pech wrote:
You know you've been reading the forums too much when you get the Dinsdale reference..... Big smile
I miss Dinsdale Cry He was in a whole different league to the current aspirants for his crown.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#271 - 2016-07-23 23:24:46 UTC
Mortlake spotted him in the wild last week, lowsec in a loki i think.
He's still about.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#272 - 2016-07-23 23:29:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Speaking of players logged in:

Back in 2013, the average daily number was 48,000.

The lowest point in that year was just under 37,000

The lowest point in that year was several thousand players above the highest point these days.

Average number of players logged in in

2014: 41,000

2015: 34,000

For 2016 YTD: 32,000

April-July of this year: 26,000

If the current trend continues the peak number of players logging will likely drop below 30,000. Granted there does appear to be seasonality in the data--i.e. players logged in slumps in the summer months. But there is also undoubtedly a longer term and persistent downward trend.

Subscriptions are also likely highly correlated with players logged on. So looking at the change from 2014 to 2015 we are talking a whopping 17% decrease in subscriptions.

If we look at the change from 2013 to 2015 a 29% decrease.

Now you know why CCP is always having PLEX sales.

BTW, if I could get my hands on the actual data...I could tell quite a bit more....

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Denavit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#273 - 2016-07-24 00:18:20 UTC
wow, this got a lot of good responses, didn't expect it =O btw, come to null, we have nothing to kill =(
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#274 - 2016-07-24 00:23:51 UTC
Denavit wrote:
wow, this got a lot of good responses, didn't expect it =O btw, come to null, we have nothing to kill =(
Goons and Russians, never not shoot them, even if they're blues.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Denavit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#275 - 2016-07-24 01:04:40 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Denavit wrote:
wow, this got a lot of good responses, didn't expect it =O btw, come to null, we have nothing to kill =(
Goons and Russians, never not shoot them, even if they're blues.


They are way to far from our region , and there is no fast way to move now =/
Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#276 - 2016-07-24 01:09:58 UTC
Goons got you right where they wanted ;-)
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#277 - 2016-07-24 06:01:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
Chinese players on their server seem to lack the bleeding of players, not only 7 k in players logged in difference now, its like they are on the rise again. Small but still rise.
ugh zug
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#278 - 2016-07-24 06:14:28 UTC
lack of content. /thread

Want me to shut up? Remove content from my post,1B. Remove my content from a thread I have started 2B.

Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#279 - 2016-07-24 06:18:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
Move to null if you want war.
Actually CCP may be on the tracks there.


To repopulate it in different way now.

Only if we could have more those players who beside shooting easy targets would like to move to null and be actually in some risk there.

Where are you, hardened PvP ers with a lot of ISK for wardecs? You still chase the bunny, not wanting to come up to the challenge of bigger pray that can bite back?
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#280 - 2016-07-24 10:53:22 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:


BTW, if I could get my hands on the actual data...I could tell quite a bit more....


I posted the future of EvE subs back in 2011, inside an Akita T thread. There's nothing else to read than that.