Player Features and Ideas Discussion

So, there's two mechanics that do not sit right to me, and they could actually make fantastic music together. Hear me out please.

A)Sovereignty. It's a bad rap currently. All risk and no reward. All the benefits of sov are player made in the form of gettting content rolling in null space. You put enormous amounts of time, effort, tears, ISK, assets, etc on the line for at best marginal tangible benefits. It's a pain logistically. It requires enormous dedication in game and out just to wade in the waters of sov. You can make more individually running L5s/FW in lowsec, or incursions in highsec, than the average null member can make. it needs more benefits.

B)Wardecs. Currently one of the most broken mechanics in the game. Now, I have a history of being a hisec antagonist - I do not want risk removed from highsec. Honestly I'd be super happy if they butchered hisec incursions and other income streams so null was actually important, but that's another topic. Either way we have large wardeccing alliances. who, thanks to hisec mechanics, have absolutely no skin in the game, have no actual risks in their game play, and can wardec hundreds of alliances with impunity.

These two interact when a hisec entity wardecs a nullsec one. It's an extreme logistical hassle to have to keep all JFs in NPC corps, and its hilariously counter-intuitive when the most risk averse people in the game can strangle hold the supplies of the areas CCP is trying to populate. People are warming to aegissov after seeing how it works, but it's huge impediment to the content enablers to have this lopsided mechanic to deal with.

Proposal:

A)To wardec an alliance with a capital in Sov Space, you must be part of an alliance that has a capital in Sov space. If an alliance loses its capital, all wardecs are dropped and cannot be re-decced for one month.

This would actually really foster content, in my appraisal. Actual content, not elite wardec pvp. Suddenly, hi sec corps could lobby for protection by being in null alliances, and have a good segue into null once they realize it's not so scary. Suddenly, the big bad guys actually have skin in the game, and something to defend if they want to maintain wardecs. They can wardec as many as they like, sure, but now there's actually a consequence to it rather than just casting out the biggest net possible.

This would also make null more attractive, and spur content that spans multiple regions and security sectors, while adding actual consequences and risk to the wardec playstyle. I don't have an issue with the big fish eating all the little fish, that is what EvE is built on. I have an issue with the big fish being in a small pond which is unassailable by the shark.

I think we can call agree at this point that no nullsec alliance is actually immune to anything. I am sort of curious who you believe to be 'big fish' in the post WWB world we live in. Black ops ships happen to specialize in guerrilla-style harassment, and have seen great success in enabling smaller groups to attack these 'big fish'. Sovereignty isn't as much about the blobs and the blues anymore man, it's about small gang.




Me of all people should be ashamed? Oh my. You know I have none of this 'shame' you speak of.
Seriously though. It's a question of anteing up at the table. We both know that wardec spamming is being able to bet on 300 decs at once, consequence free, and seeing which bets you win, while never actually risking anything, as there it takes rather gross incompetence to lose any one of these bets. Everything in EvE should be opportunity costed, and the majority of this cost should be enforced by players. There's currently no real way to actually ever attack back at wardeccers. That is the entirety of the problem. It's only as safe as other players let it be - currently wardecs are hilariously safe and there's no way to really stop that. It's not immunity at all, you just have to be willing to pick bets better in a system like this.




You could always gank me. I don't want safe travel anymore than I want any form of safety in the game. Which is why Wardecs are so dumb as they present 100% safe kills to wardeccers.




I don't want safety. That is exactly why I want wardecs to be dangerous. Think about it.

There's so much potential for content creation here. The present paradigm for deccers is just, cast the biggest net possible, as there's no real risk of catching something to big to handle - it's actually risk free as opposed to what I want. You would have to actually make sure you do not bite off more than you can handle. Surely you can see what sort of interwoven stories this system could produce.

This is a horrible idea. Large Alliances that already own Sov already are 500mil just to dec, giving them further protection in Highsec is silly. Also Alliance that own Sov and have Titian's don't give a rats ass about highsec as a general whole. It's main concern is only his logistical path to 4-4


EDIT: Also I think I should know who you are in some way or the other? Like honestly who are you? It's bothering me. XD

Not all sov alliances are large now. In fact, most are pretty small these days, well outside of the 500m range. As someone in contact with lots of smaller alliances, which really are coming to null and living the dream, I can attest that it is quite a detrimental mechanic, or at least irritating, to keeping null healthy. Most of these groups want to fight, in fact want nothing more than to fight. My own alliance, Rote Kapelle, is dedicated towards PVP; from the data CCP released covering March 1st to April 4th, we had the 15th most kills of any corporation, and the 8th most when normalized for corp size. Yet, we have no way to fight against a wardec, because wardeccers plainly do not have to fight anything they don't want to. If we could actually fight the wardeccers, that would be amazing! However the mechanics are so hilariously tilted we could never actually get a fight out of them - they have zero skin in the game, nothing to attack, near perfect intel, and layers of safety in stations and neutral logi.

Again, it is pretty telling when one of the most active PvP centric alliances in the game cannot effectively pose a threat to wardeccers.

No, it's immunity. You didn't even call for the usual (also bad) idea of having some structure that you can destroy to end the war. You proposed straight-out immunity from attack from a large portion of the players in this game just for you. Talk about self-interested.

Almost all conflict in Eve is "consequence free" as you define it. What do you have for us next, Goonswarm should not be able to attack you in nullsec because they don't have sov and have nothing you can counter-attack? Their attacking you is "risk-free" by your contortions because there is nothing you can do to them if they choose not to undock. It's the same for wardeccers. You can call them cowardly, but they aren't going to undock into your superior force. The intended outcome of the original game design is for you to bring a superior force and secure your transports thus essentially nullifying the war to a weaker opponent like you seem to consider the wardeccers, but like the rest of the risk-averse player-base you have grown so used to evasion and taking the safe path, you don't even consider that a viable option. You don't want to play defence, so if you cannot 100% secure your transports, you consider something is wrong with the game because you are vulnerable and then cheese the mechanics by using out-of-corp alts to move things and evade the war.

That's fine, and everyone does it including myself, but don't come here complaining that it's too much effort to evade wars as that vulnerability is intended and you are expected to do something to protect your logistics. You, and almost everyone else choose to play corp games to move things to deal with that risk, but that risk is very much intended. You are not suppose to be able to secure your ships in highsec even if you don't like it and would rather be fighting in null. We are all content for each other, and that means your logistics is intended to be content for the pirates.

You did not just use one of the carebear's most favourite lines here did you? Vic, how the mighty have fallen.

You and I both know that ganking has been nerfed so hard in recent years that you can make yourself effectively almost 100% safe from ganking, probably 100% safe in a jump freighter barring some unfortunate crash or disconnect. Red and Black Frog do it everyday.

You are not suppose to feel or be safe in this game. I can see the fact that you cannot secure your ships bothers you immensely and is seriously impacting your ability for rational thought as evidenced by this thread. You are not entitled to be safe from attack, nor have a way to make yourself 100% immune to attack regardless of how much you want that or feel you deserve it because you are stronger, braver or whatever than the wardeccers. With a few broken exceptions, the other players are always given a chance to attack you and there is no automatic form of revenge or counter-attack given, Sometimes, it is your turn to be the content or the defender, you can't always be on offence.

Wardecs are so trivial to dodge for logistic purposes that they are essentially useless. But they are needed to remove structures and that is a much more relevant, and important function for generating content in highsec. That is not going to be hamstrung to give you and your nullsec friends some slightly easier logistics when you can easily just haul out-of-corp or actually play the game, and bring an escort for your transports. I suggest you go back to the drawing board on this one.

No you just want safety for yourself just like every other carebear who comes to these forums with some half-thought out idea they claim will generate content by removing any chance at conflict or interaction through NPC-enforcement. Wardecs are as dangerous as any almost other form of fighting where invulnerable stations allow a side to choose not to undock which is most of Eve. If you want wardeccers to have some more 'skin in the game', I am with you and I am fine with some structure they have to deploy that you can use to push their noses in and inflict a financial loss on them. But that is completely different than this proposal just to make yourself immune to them because you judge them not to undock enough when you come calling. Sorry friend, that is not how Eve works. You have to defend yourself against all-comers, even the ones you deem cowardly and beneath you.

Step 1: Pay nullsec alliance some sum of money to allow you to deploy a TCU in their space. This will be your capital.
Step 2: Enjoy wardec immunity. Spam invincible citadels everywhere.

Not really, not with goo the way it is - Not many logistics guys do it for fun, it's a very necessary evil. You may build or refine there, but you certainly can't source it all locally.

Anyway, as you all were.

OP - I'm not sure of your place in you corp/alliance food chain, but I'm going to give you a bit of an eye opener. It isn't uncommon for the leadership of large SOV nul groups to actually pay HS mercs to wardec themselves. The point of the war dec is to flush the HS dwelling members out to SOV null where their leadership feels they belong.

Aside from that you idea reveals you as lazy, risk averse and nurturing an oversized sense of self entitlement (for what? Joining a null alliance?) Your parents are probably hoping for the day you finally move out and learn to stand on your own.

As a wh girl I do a lot of travelling in all parts of space. Let me lay out the reality for you. SOV null is littered with bears. SOV null is also polluted with upgraded systems that have 30+ anoms that instantly respawn when you complete them. Null anoms are a joke. There is no EASIER isk in the game. There may be better isk for hour, but there is no easier. Back to the facts. Any SOV null bear club with a brain has already hell-bubbled and upgraded a few dead end systems for continuous ratting. When my fearsome and powerful (sarcasm) corporation shows up in local - all you elite tough guys doc and wait us out.


There are only 2 groups that consistently fleet up and fight off gangs that come into their territory.

Testicles
Anyone in the Provi Block (A well earned Thanks for playing the game right for so long from me and my crew!


The rest of you assholios are risk averse docking bears. We have to catch you off guard and gank you - there is no actual fight to be had.


I'm not talking about 100+ fleet battles, I'm talking about policing the space you own. And here you are flat out stating it's too much of a bother, so you introduce a (horrible) mechanic to limit your vulnerability because it's too much work. Owning SOV brings the burden of defending it.

I've researched your kb - your personal, corp and alliance kb are all abysmal.it's understandable that you personally want the rest of eve to just stop shooting you. You need to look at the rest of the game and players and not consider just your own personal plight. My advice: practice and get better. PVP is a lot of fun (in all parts of eve). Realize that part of owning SOV null is policing it and dealing with empire 'thugs'. That being said - stop crying about how hard it is to be an elite SOV null denizen. You make respectable null groups (provi block for example) look weak by association.

Coming from an obvious alt with no kills and 2 losses. Can you please have the decency to post with your main?

Solo, small gang, fleet, you name it; i've done it.



What? Where are you even getting this? Last time I checked it was 7,711 kills and 1,378 losses?
Check the data dump from CCP for actual data as well.



NPC-enforcement would be a terrible, horrible thing and we both know this. At least you are able to see the problem with having some sort of 'skin in the game', so again, at least you see where I am coming from conceptually. Yes the idea isn't particularly thought out, and other ideas to give deccers something that is vulnerable are fine too; just something were there can be an actual fight between players would solve 90% of it. The idea that wardecs are dangerous is laughable, and again, I would challenge people to come up with an explanation to the following; if by CCPs metrics Rote Kapelle is one of the top PvP alliances in the game (again see that report, among others), why are wardeccers not too spooked to dec? No actual person that wants to log in and get a fight wants to have to go 35 jumps back to hisec to have the deccers dock up. That simple.

I still think you may have this entrenched idea of sov stuck in your head, where it is entirely populated by monolithic alliances with multiple 250 man fleets at every hour of the day. It's just not true. Honestly smaller wardec alliances are probably a good match for 10-15 man gangs, if they managed to put down their neutral logi security blanket once in a while. While I can't blame someone for not taking a fight which they don't stand good odds in, the fact that deccers do not have to take -any- fight is just dumb.

I think it's pretty funny anyone would call me a carebear, considering most of my playtime is usually spent being an antagonist. If you wardecced me, I would prefer to actually fight it out, win or lose.....and that's the whole issue - people who declare war are never forced to actually engage. Sure, I could just drop to NPC corps and get around the entire thing, but that's lost pew pew for both of us.

Eh, I think you are all selling this sort.

Let's say you are a typical lowsec resident - you are there for the fights, you want a steady supply of readily available, accessible content and action, and you do not want all the hullabaloo and effort/drama that sov entails. Man that does sound like a good play style! I can't say I blame you at all!

Wally Q Wardec decides, hey, we need more targets that do not shoot back, lets wardec your corporation! Now we have 301 wardecs! Woo!!!

Your first low-sec gut instinct is, hey, someone just made a deposit in local, or otherwise questioned the nature of my scrappiness and/or threw the gauntlet down! Well that doesn't stand without a fight! However, we both know, that fight will never happen. Period. Wardeccers do not have any thing to attack, and have anted up nothing. Well shucks, now you have to pull all your freighter from corp/alliance! Wow that was fun; a fight that could have happened, gone. the Wardec totally circumvented with mechanics, rather than fought with mighty space ships.

But imagine now, if you could have one sov system nearby the border. Suddenly, they have to have a sov system, and are thus vulnerable, to be able to actually make you vulnerable. Now they actually have to ante up something and put some skin in the game instead of simply casting the biggest net possible.

Now imagine what emerges out of this. Sov becomes a little more valuable to both the deccers and the targets. Sov entities could shepherd deccers and targets alike, and theres's mad potential for intrigue and interaction. This beats the pants of the current paradigm of, deccers are sedentary ambush predators, and possibly forces it into a more active role.