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Eve Null-Sec Corp. Profitability (Or lack of)

Author
Kaprer Suhr
New Eden Mining Union Incorporated
#1 - 2016-07-22 23:38:35 UTC
I'm really getting into this game now, Sov maps are fascinating. (Goonswarm down from over 9000 to about nothing since my last hiatus)

I have a speculation. A theory maybe.

Could poor financial performance be the demise of large null-sec corps?

I am noob, so let me list out what I know.

1. CEOs dump BILLIONS UPON BILLIONS of personal isk and plexes into running their corps and alliances.

2. Mining is profitable out there, (if you have the skills for a mackinaw, and dedicated boosts)

3. Corps buy back this ore at a markup to benefit players.

4. Corps tax 0%

5.Few corps or maybe a big fat ZERO CORPS (feel free to interject) actively manage their systems markets, instead relying on one profiteer, to supply all their needs at big fat markups.

My question is this: Please keep reading keep reading keep reading, ok you must answer this question or gtfo ;)

Are there any corps out there making money? With the intention to make isks? How big are you? and will you sell me shares.

Kaprer.

(I'm coming for you null-sec)

Kaprer Suhr
New Eden Mining Union Incorporated
#2 - 2016-07-22 23:46:43 UTC
Did I not mention moons and PI? I did not mention moons or PI.

AHEM,

Corps in eve are socialist. I was told that that is the best way to make a corp. Isk to the players, players donate to keep POS's up. I am speculating that these corps will not hold much of a place in the future of null-sec, and a mega-shift (copyright) will swing sovereignty into the favor of the capitalist alliance. (Sorry Russians, I know it's a sore spot)

Capitalist alliances will last longer because:

1.They will inherently (yes, inherently) be better organized, with better structure, should leadership players leave.
2. Can Command mercenary armies. (Super awesome right?)
3. (and this is secret) will make more isk for their members. (With properly managed share issuance and buyback, and other profit opportunities

I swear to god if anybody starts talking about RL Capitalism, Socialism, or your moms vagina, I will be angry. (Very angry)


07

Very angry
Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
Nornir Empire
#3 - 2016-07-23 00:16:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Elizabeth Norn
Kaprer Suhr wrote:

1. CEOs dump BILLIONS UPON BILLIONS of personal isk and plexes into running their corps and alliances.

2. Mining is profitable out there, (if you have the skills for a mackinaw, and dedicated boosts)

3. Corps buy back this ore at a markup to benefit players.

4. Corps tax 0%

5.Few corps or maybe a big fat ZERO CORPS (feel free to interject) actively manage their systems markets, instead relying on one profiteer, to supply all their needs at big fat markups.



1. Not that I've heard of, outside of the aluminium magnate who was funding his alliance's super capital fleet.

2. Sure, but there's other more profitable activities out there too.

3. All the ore buyback programs I've seen made a profit for the entity running them.

4. Some do, 6/10 of the largest corps on https://evewho.com/ have their tax set to 1.5% or more.

5. I believe most sov null markets are seeded by alliance members acting on their own, but I definitely know leadership sometimes steps in to run things for some alliances. It's definitely rarely a single person because it's a lot of effort to seed a market, and competition tends to lead to lower prices. This is capitalist and not socialist though?
Karen Avioras
The Raging Raccoons
#4 - 2016-07-23 01:42:13 UTC
It's time for a communist alliance. Let's soviet this **** up.
Kaprer Suhr
New Eden Mining Union Incorporated
#5 - 2016-07-23 02:58:29 UTC
ok fine all 5 of my points are whatever. Are there then any corps out there trying to make profit for their shareholders, owners, or just the ceo?
Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
Nornir Empire
#6 - 2016-07-23 03:22:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Elizabeth Norn
The shares system and shareholders aren't too popular, but you get loans, IPOs and similar things here. When you say corp, I guess you mean a group of people working together? Most traders work on their own for various reasons, mostly trust issues, but do their trading through a corp due to the various benefits of doing so (shared office hangars, deliveries, wallet, corp contract slots).

So yeah, there are people/corps out there making ISK although it's not often like in real life with dozens of employees, Pro Synergy and the various hauling or gambling corps are the exceptions. For some, such as myself, it's pretty much all we do.
Cronus Maximus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#7 - 2016-07-23 05:51:52 UTC
Not to be rude be honestly most of your assumptions about null are just off the mark as E Norn mentioned.

Player motivations are for the most part different in null than high. Even if players still want to make isk and grow its often not their number one priority, for some its only an afterthought or necessary evil to pursue other goals.

Of course that is not always true, there are shades of grey. But you largely see folks operating on their own or in small tight knit groups for the same reasons traders in high do so.

I think the key thing you are not considering which is persistent thru most of your points is your perception of low level interdependence being a facet of most corporations. You mention buyback programs, shares, group efforts to keep POSes running etc. All those would be important things if folks only operated only 1 account, or if eve were still young and people did not have enough SP to fill more than 1 role yet. But that's not the case, someone mining might have 10 miners, a roqual and 3 scouts all running concurrently. You don't need shares and fancy programs to track group ore mined by m3 if one guy is running the whole show. That is not to say those things do not exist, they all do. But they are often the exception instead of the rule they you see them to be.

Compare EvE to real life economies, EvE lacks even the most basic restrictions on highly immoral and illegal activities in real life(monopolies, insider trading, manipulations). Corps in EvE end up working the same way because it is the most efficient manner to operate in a system with limited resources and man power.
Skia Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#8 - 2016-07-23 08:52:43 UTC
Cronus Maximus wrote:
Player motivations are for the most part different in null than high. Even if players still want to make isk and grow its often not their number one priority, for some its only an afterthought or necessary evil to pursue other goals.

There are entities (corps and alliances) in sov nullsec that do make isk and set it as their main goal. They rent their space from a dominant sov holder. To compensate, members pay taxes. CEOs will invest their isk and efforts to start up the corp or alliance, and will extract personal profits afterwards when taxes cover rent and other expenses.

They indeed may want to take a loan or go for an IPO if they knew what it is and how to do it. Initial investments could be pretty high. It will take some time to make everything up and running and the rental fee for a constellation like this would be about 40 bil / month. On the other hand, CEOs of these corps are usually high-profile veteran carebears themselves and have fat wallets.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#9 - 2016-07-23 12:06:46 UTC
Kaprer Suhr wrote:
I'm really getting into this game now, Sov maps are fascinating. (Goonswarm down from over 9000 to about nothing since my last hiatus)

I have a speculation. A theory maybe.

Could poor financial performance be the demise of large null-sec corps?

I am noob, so let me list out what I know.

1. CEOs dump BILLIONS UPON BILLIONS of personal isk and plexes into running their corps and alliances.

2. Mining is profitable out there, (if you have the skills for a mackinaw, and dedicated boosts)

3. Corps buy back this ore at a markup to benefit players.

4. Corps tax 0%

5.Few corps or maybe a big fat ZERO CORPS (feel free to interject) actively manage their systems markets, instead relying on one profiteer, to supply all their needs at big fat markups.

My question is this: Please keep reading keep reading keep reading, ok you must answer this question or gtfo ;)

Are there any corps out there making money? With the intention to make isks? How big are you? and will you sell me shares.

Kaprer.

(I'm coming for you null-sec)




Just an FYI: Goonswarm had a 'market cabal'. This group controlled several major markets in game, and had a combined NAV in the tens of trillions.

These people sufficient ISK to purchase literally hundreds of supercapitals, had that been their intention. They might not have found enough sellers, but they did have the ISK.

So no, it wasn't poor economic management. Morale is a more important resource than ISK.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

0000000000ZERO0000000000
Zero Zentharis
#10 - 2016-07-23 12:17:41 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:



Just an FYI: Goonswarm had a 'market cabal'. This group controlled several major markets in game, and had a combined NAV in the tens of trillions.

These people sufficient ISK to purchase literally hundreds of supercapitals, had that been their intention. They might not have found enough sellers, but they did have the ISK.

So no, it wasn't poor economic management. Morale is a more important resource than ISK.


Too bad Mynnna left.
Cronus Maximus
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#11 - 2016-07-23 18:20:59 UTC
Skia Aumer wrote:
Cronus Maximus wrote:
for the most part

Words


Trying to not empty quote here but I think the above snippet is all that is needed.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#12 - 2016-07-24 09:42:19 UTC
0000000000ZERO0000000000 wrote:
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:



Just an FYI: Goonswarm had a 'market cabal'. This group controlled several major markets in game, and had a combined NAV in the tens of trillions.

These people sufficient ISK to purchase literally hundreds of supercapitals, had that been their intention. They might not have found enough sellers, but they did have the ISK.

So no, it wasn't poor economic management. Morale is a more important resource than ISK.


Too bad Mynnna left.



Mynnna had maybe a quarter the wealth of the Cabal.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com