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Every year, there are less users playing, why??

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Geronimo McVain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#121 - 2016-07-21 14:11:15 UTC
First problem is that CCP is loosing player because they can't get a grip on eve. Eve is so complex that you really need to spoon feed new players. I would start with a whole story which puts the new player through a serie of missions that will teach him the basics. The career agents don't do this there is no story that puts it all together and doing something once in such a complex game will just overwhelm new players. Did I mention that some of the most important principles in eve are not taught like really fitting a ship. Eve has enough players that are interested but not enough that stay. And we need informations that are in game and exact. When I started in December I was searching where to upgrade my clone because all the sides told me that it is important..... Until I found out that the mechanics have changed. Same with grinding faction to install clones..... How do you really guarantee good hits if you are shooting at something was told by some Uniwiki site not Eve or CCP. And this are things that frustrate noobs and thing that are basic to play it.

Second is that Eve is a PC game. 75% of the sold games are console games so the basic idea of Dust wasn't bad but you need to get Eve on Consoles which would need a whole new UI something that it really needs on PC too.
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
#122 - 2016-07-21 14:40:04 UTC
I sold my titan and plexed 4 characters for 2 years. Formatted my PC a couple of weeks ago and haven't even installed EVE yet.

I was a lowsec explorer. When Odyssey came out a few years ago it made it impossible to make a living off of lowsec exploration for a couple of reasons. The number 1 reason was they got rid of deep space probes which gave anyone with higher skills an edge on the speed of which they could find the valuable sites. My buddies and I used to cover a region and make all the ISK we needed from exploration in a few hours. Sometimes the RNG gods would smile on us and we'd get a billion ISK drop and could derp around a bit before needing to get back to the coalmine. Other times you did radar/mag sites @ 25-50 mil a pop for a whole week just to make ends meet. We loved it. We used to tell people 'If you want exploration without obligation join the lowsec nation." Now anytime anyone jumps into system, be it a brand new character or a 10 year vet they know exactly how many signatures are in system, no effort, no skills, just free information about the sites for jumping into system. It doesn't sound like that big of a deal but it was murder for the serious lowsec dwellers who didn't run level 5s or farm LP in FW.

Then the lootspew bullsh!t and radar/mag sites losing all their value when they lost their rats, then later down the road they changed the spawn rate on escalations from nullsec anomolies so the green/blue loot you get is all but worthless these days too.

The third reason was you could no longer bring in a dual boxed glass cannon T3 BC to help run the sites faster because rat aggro changed. So basically these 3 things in the odyssey patch caused 2 of my buddies to quit playing. Their play style was living in lowsec, exploring and patrolling 'our' region.

I kept on playing and went back to nullsec despite hating all the beauracracy and politics and thrived for over 2 years. Phoebe hits a couple of new friends quit playing. Yadda yadda so the story goes.

Having played for years and years, watching friends come and go, adapting or dieing, etc. etc. etc. I can tell you this at the start of a nice long break from EVE. EVE Online is a game that you have to do a certain amount of bullsh!t in to have fun. It's not like league of legends, world of warcraft or skyrim or anything else. Everything requires research and knowledge, planning and execution. I enjoyed it, I still do but slowly and surely the amount of crap I have to put up with to do anything in this game just goes up and up. I have JDC 5 on every character I own, I have nuetral characters for highsec hauling, every character has T2 haulers for jump bridges, the list goes on. It seems like every year since Odyssey it just gets harder and harder to do the bullsh!t you have to do in order to have fun.

So that's why I'm all but gone. Sorry for the wall of text but you asked :P

Not today spaghetti.
Lt Mando
Inherently risky schemes.
#123 - 2016-07-21 15:46:13 UTC
I have been playing ever for about 7 years now , if only I could count how many of these post you see during the summer seasons .
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#124 - 2016-07-21 15:47:24 UTC
How is it that all these people who are somehow posting on the forums not playing the game any more? You know you have to be subbed to post here right? Whether or not you've done that with plex, or cash, I just don't believe you're legitimately 'gone' if you're posting here. I was gone since January, only came back a few weeks ago myself. I didn't pay CCP just to play 'Forums Online'. You know Facebook is free right? And Reddit?

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Chewytowel Haklar
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#125 - 2016-07-21 15:53:19 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
How is it that all these people who are somehow posting on the forums not playing the game any more? You know you have to be subbed to post here right? Whether or not you've done that with plex, or cash, I just don't believe you're legitimately 'gone' if you're posting here. I was gone since January, only came back a few weeks ago myself. I didn't pay CCP just to play 'Forums Online'. You know Facebook is free right? And Reddit?



Yeah, but they could also have bought a yearly sub, plexed for several months just to keep skill training going, or whatever other viable reason.
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#126 - 2016-07-21 16:06:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Dirty Forum Alt
Chewytowel Haklar wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
How is it that all these people who are somehow posting on the forums not playing the game any more? You know you have to be subbed to post here right? Whether or not you've done that with plex, or cash, I just don't believe you're legitimately 'gone' if you're posting here. I was gone since January, only came back a few weeks ago myself. I didn't pay CCP just to play 'Forums Online'. You know Facebook is free right? And Reddit?



Yeah, but they could also have bought a yearly sub, plexed for several months just to keep skill training going, or whatever other viable reason.

I know I for one was on a yearly subscription and am paid up through the 13th of October.

You do *not* need a subscription to post here - just a valid pilot's license.

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
#127 - 2016-07-21 16:22:20 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
How is it that all these people who are somehow posting on the forums not playing the game any more? You know you have to be subbed to post here right? Whether or not you've done that with plex, or cash, I just don't believe you're legitimately 'gone' if you're posting here. I was gone since January, only came back a few weeks ago myself. I didn't pay CCP just to play 'Forums Online'. You know Facebook is free right? And Reddit?



My job is boring. I plexed for a long time and I still browse the forums and reddit at work.

Not today spaghetti.
Noah Reese
#128 - 2016-07-21 16:33:33 UTC
I've been trying to quit since 2009.
Krevnos
Back Door Burglars
#129 - 2016-07-21 16:47:38 UTC
As mentioned before, there are many reasons for the decline in player base. Everyone has their own reasons if departing and I can tell you only my own:

I have allowed my accounts to lapse because I felt that the developer was no longer interested in enhancing the Eve experience, but rather monetisation of as many aspects as it can to milk the existing subscribers. Evidence of this to me:

Constant ship skins which can all be developed for next to nothing (everyone remembers the famous bug) but sold at premium.
Recent move to allow skill point trading (which was notably very poorly defended by CCP community spokespersons who insulted us with tirades of here say and bullshit with no figures or market data to confirm their rationale).

Additionally, I feel that recent features being implemented by the company can be considered generic MMO content. Eve was never a generic MMO and I hope I can speak for the community in saying that none of its players wanted it to be. Frankly, if I wanted to play a generic MMO there are far better ones out there than Eve. Recent evidence of these changes to me:

CCP Rise with 'Daily Opportunities'
CCP Fozzie with 'capture the flag' mechanics for sovereignty (which he also wanted to introduce to Citadels).


The Citadel expansion was a welcome break from the interminable mundane slop and money grabbing being pushed our way over the past 2 years, but alas it was both incomplete and introduced its own raft of irksome mechanics (like the fighter interface) which have held it back sorely.

While I don't like to subscribe to the 'Eve is dying' band wagon, there is little doubt that the game is now in free-fall terminal decline. In a game where players create the content, once a critical social mass becomes lost, the community will fall apart very quickly.
xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers
#130 - 2016-07-21 17:46:15 UTC
Denavit wrote:
Is is because PLEX prices, i remember buying them at 550mill, 500mill, now is almost 1bill, or is it because the changes are making oldSchoolers quit?


back in the day we used to get a can of coke a mars bar a packet of pay day toffees and 10 chewing gums for 20p

20p i tells ya..

accept certain inalienable truths
Prices will rise, politicians will philander, you too will get old
And when you do, you'll fantasize that when you were young
Prices were reasonable, politicians were noble
And children respected their elders

Baz Luhrmann







Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
#131 - 2016-07-21 20:36:27 UTC
I'm still here! o/

Sellin' stuff.
Killin' rocks.
Snarkin' around.

--Ageless Gadget

Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist

Given an hour to save New Eden, how would respected scientist, Albertus Eisenstein compose his thoughts? "Fifty-five minutes to define the problem; save the galaxy in five."
Judaa K'Marr
Shadow Legions.
Insidious.
#132 - 2016-07-21 20:56:38 UTC
Sexy Cakes wrote:
I sold my titan and plexed 4 characters for 2 years. Formatted my PC a couple of weeks ago and haven't even installed EVE yet.

I was a lowsec explorer. When Odyssey came out a few years ago it made it impossible to make a living off of lowsec exploration for a couple of reasons. The number 1 reason was they got rid of deep space probes which gave anyone with higher skills an edge on the speed of which they could find the valuable sites. My buddies and I used to cover a region and make all the ISK we needed from exploration in a few hours. Sometimes the RNG gods would smile on us and we'd get a billion ISK drop and could derp around a bit before needing to get back to the coalmine. Other times you did radar/mag sites @ 25-50 mil a pop for a whole week just to make ends meet. We loved it. We used to tell people 'If you want exploration without obligation join the lowsec nation." Now anytime anyone jumps into system, be it a brand new character or a 10 year vet they know exactly how many signatures are in system, no effort, no skills, just free information about the sites for jumping into system. It doesn't sound like that big of a deal but it was murder for the serious lowsec dwellers who didn't run level 5s or farm LP in FW.

Then the lootspew bullsh!t and radar/mag sites losing all their value when they lost their rats, then later down the road they changed the spawn rate on escalations from nullsec anomolies so the green/blue loot you get is all but worthless these days too.

The third reason was you could no longer bring in a dual boxed glass cannon T3 BC to help run the sites faster because rat aggro changed. So basically these 3 things in the odyssey patch caused 2 of my buddies to quit playing. Their play style was living in lowsec, exploring and patrolling 'our' region.

I kept on playing and went back to nullsec despite hating all the beauracracy and politics and thrived for over 2 years. Phoebe hits a couple of new friends quit playing. Yadda yadda so the story goes.

Having played for years and years, watching friends come and go, adapting or dieing, etc. etc. etc. I can tell you this at the start of a nice long break from EVE. EVE Online is a game that you have to do a certain amount of bullsh!t in to have fun. It's not like league of legends, world of warcraft or skyrim or anything else. Everything requires research and knowledge, planning and execution. I enjoyed it, I still do but slowly and surely the amount of crap I have to put up with to do anything in this game just goes up and up. I have JDC 5 on every character I own, I have nuetral characters for highsec hauling, every character has T2 haulers for jump bridges, the list goes on. It seems like every year since Odyssey it just gets harder and harder to do the bullsh!t you have to do in order to have fun.

So that's why I'm all but gone. Sorry for the wall of text but you asked :P


I hated the exploration changes as well. It was especially confusing since in this game where the standard of PVE is such a well known joke, exploration was on the one area of PVE that approached being fun and interesting, and for some reason CCP decided it was in need of nonstop meddling and dumbing down. Someone in corp getting a 10/10 would be an event. The massive drop from 6/10 was like winning the lottery. Now it's all a bit meh.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#133 - 2016-07-21 21:10:36 UTC
Judaa K'Marr wrote:


I hated the exploration changes as well. It was especially confusing since in this game where the standard of PVE is such a well known joke, exploration was on the one area of PVE that approached being fun and interesting, and for some reason CCP decided it was in need of nonstop meddling and dumbing down. Someone in corp getting a 10/10 would be an event. The massive drop from 6/10 was like winning the lottery. Now it's all a bit meh.

Launching a single DSP and knowing exactly what was in the system was not difficult or engaging content, it was simply a rote step in micromanagement.
Clicking launch 8 times to get your probes out was also not difficult or engaging content, it was just an RSI inducing micromanagement step.
Loot spew was a valiant attempt at the request by the player base for more interaction in looting cans, and rewarding skill. Moral of that story, be careful what you wish for. It has now also been removed.

If it's a bit meh getting a 10/10 now then that's because you have been around and done a bunch of them now, because they are no easier to find than before. Just less tedium is involved in finding them.
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#134 - 2016-07-21 21:13:00 UTC
xxxTRUSTxxx wrote:

accept certain inalienable truths
Prices will rise, politicians will philander, you too will get old
And when you do, you'll fantasize that when you were young
Prices were reasonable, politicians were noble
And children respected their elders

Baz Luhrmann










Anyone who quotes 'Sunscreen' needs to be (space) keel-hauled

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
45thtiger 0109
Pan-Intergalatic Business Community
#135 - 2016-07-22 00:27:18 UTC
Pandora Carrollon wrote:
This is one of the most hilarious threads I've ever read. Everyone complaining about everything. CCP has NO CHANCE of making all you people happy.

Let's hit some high points:

CCP isn't providing enough content!

CCP is too controlling!

CCP changes the game too much and doesn't tell us!

CCP tells us everything, there is no mystery!

etc. etc. etc.

Time to put on your big boy and big girl pants folks.

You have the most advanced sandbox game I'm even aware of, and while I don't know all of the games out there, I haven't seen anything close to EVE in complexity and freedom.

CCP could provide NO NEW content for a year and there would still be massive things you can do in the game.


The issue here isn't CCP, it's you the player. Either you have literally done everything there is to do in EVE, or you have blocked off certain parts of the sandbox because you find them uninteresting. Regardless, the issue is still you.

I am relatively new to this game and my read on it is that I have about 3-4 years of figuring stuff out and trying new things, so I'm not a grizzled vet that doesn't a closet full of "Been there, done that" T-Shirts. If I just described you, then maybe give EVE a break for a while if you're bored. There are about 3 good Space Sims that have just come out, try them.

If I didn't describe you as a grizzled Vet, then you are more likely along the newer vein such as I am. If you are bored now, then I can't help you other than to give you a piece of advice: "Broaden your horizon and take control of your game of EVE." It's not CCP's job to mother hen you. Take the blinders off and go play somewhere else in the sandbox. You might just find yourself doing something new, unexpected, and fun.


CCP Does let everyone know of the update they are doing through the o7 show and the Road map goto this link EvE updatesand tell the rest of the people if CCP does or does not let us know what is going on in EvE.


**You Have to take the good with the bad and the bad with the good.

Welcome to EvE OnLiNe**
W33b3l
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#136 - 2016-07-22 01:19:05 UTC
The only F2P game I really ever play anymore is PS2 and I still like Warframe a bit. Used to play a lot of War thunder. Those arent MMO's though end their pay systems dont break the game. I cant stand P2W MMO's, if EVE ever went F2P it would die for sure. But I doubt it will ever happen.

If sub numbers are indeed dropping. Its just because the number of people that have gotton bored with the game are higher then then new people coming in. It will fluctuate I'm sure.

Ya have to remember that a lot of the "vet" players dont like hardly anything at all that CCP is doing with EVE right now. There are some pretty cool and handy things here and there, but as a core, a lot of us dont approve of a lot of it. You also have to remember that the longer you play something the more likely you will get bored with it and quit playing. Its just going to happen.

So if the Numbers are dropping. (I dont know if they are), its just because CCP is having issues bringing new players, wich is why they are doing a lot of things they are doing. The issue with that is, a lot of things they are doing to bring in new players is causing older players to drop. Its just a big mess of numbers and statistics that are hard to predict and control. The most well thought out thread in the world wont get you an answer because I doubt CCP even knows for sure. They are just doing there best.

In all honesty. If sub numbers ever do become a real problem, I believe it will be because the amount of new blood in CCP will get to a point that they make choices based on current trends from other games and look at it solely as a monetary stream. There wont be enough people around that actually know and understand why this game is what it is (or was). EVE is a very odd game that was designed by people making a game they wanted to play. If that part of the development process dies completely, EVE will die as well.

But will that ever happen? I dont think anyone knows how long it will take or if it will. Although there are some signs of what I typed above and people over react to it and start threads like this.
Toobo
Project Fruit House
#137 - 2016-07-22 02:24:55 UTC
There was a talk here earlier about how new bros starting out in High Sec have it tough - that they join friendly & small high sec corp and get war decced and cannot undock for a week (or even longer) and it puts off the new bros & etc.

This is a recurring statement that is said very often when talking about small HS corps & new bros & etc, but I think in such cases HS is completely misunderstood and people don't 'get' what EVE is about.

EVE is a PVP game, where PVP can occur in ANY space. System Security does not mean there can be no PvP there. It just means different Security Systems work with different PvP 'mechanic'.

War dec, suicide gank, etc are just some of the mechanics that can be used to PvP in HS. People should really get this into their head that wherever they are in New Eden, they are in PVP space. The whole idea of "I'm in highsec, I don't want PVP" is totally flawed and it is not what EVE is about.

I respect different play styles and understand that some people find PVE more enjoyable, but at the end of the day, New Bros and HS Corps should really understand that HS is also a PVP space, but just working with a different engagement mechanic.

So once you get that HS is also a valid PVP space, then you need to plan accordingly. 'Indy Corp', 'Mission Running Corp', etc - I respect that they have different goals and focus and that's all good. But you are operating in PVP space, so you need plans to survive in hostile space (yes, HS is a hostile space, just like LS or Null or WH is, but just with a different mechanic).

You need to have plans for defence (since you are living in hostile space), and if you are not up for (or don't have enough pilots for) space ship pew pew then at least have plans to survive and persist in hostile space.

There are people who wander around NPC nulls and do PVE primarily. They are not looking for PVP, but they know that PVP can happen any time, so they take pre-cautions to give them better chance to survive.

HS corps and players should do the same - watch local, keep tabs on known trouble makers, work with standings and diplomacy, use scout when needed, watch D-Scan, find solutions to transport/fly high-value stuff, etc, etc.

EVE is a game where you can do your own thing wherever, but all across HS/LS/Null/WH you need to accept and prepare for the fact that you are living in a hostile space - so feel free to do whatever you want to do wherever you want to do, but do it in a way that give you better chance of survival & persistence. HS corps & players who neglect/ignore/flatly refuse this FACT are the ones who cry & whine & rage quit.

Cheers Love! The cavalry's here!
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#138 - 2016-07-22 11:17:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
I think wardec mechanisms must be changed. Now you can just grief with it, people drop corp and they are invulnerable then. So the war should come only to those who really will fight. Military Sections for corporations or different player corporation types maybe?

You will not get more kills, or less, but people will be less pissed off by it.

ᴇᴠᴇʀʏ ᴘᴀʀᴛ ᴏғ ᴀ ɢᴀᴍᴇ ʜᴇʟᴘs ᴛᴏ ᴛᴇʟʟ ᴀ sᴛᴏʀʏ 📕

ᴡʜᴇʀᴇ ɪs ᴀɴɢʀʏ ᴄᴏɴᴄᴏʀᴅ ɢᴜʏ ᴡʜᴇɴ ʏᴏᴜ ɴᴇᴇᴅ ʜɪᴍ

ᴏsᴘʀᴇʏ 🚀

≡⋁≡ ♥
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#139 - 2016-07-22 11:25:41 UTC
Nana Skalski wrote:
I think wardec mechanisms must be changed. Now you can just grief with it, people drop corp and they are invulnerable then. So the war should come only to those who really will fight. Military Sections for corporations or different player corporation types maybe?

You will not get more kills, or less, but people will be less pissed off by it.

The saddest part is that it is probably only a matter of time before CCP breaks down and makes combat 100% optional for you...

My question, however, is: Why do people with this opinion play the game *now* - when such changes haven't been made? And why do you seem to suffer the delusion that EVE was ever some wonderful peaceful Utopia where big mean bullies couldn't pick on poor unarmed noobs like you?

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
ll Kuray ll
Space Wolves ind.
Solyaris Chtonium
#140 - 2016-07-22 11:33:55 UTC
Don't know if this has been said but CCP have stated their intent on creating true player engagement stats, hence the *ban* on command automation that something like ISBoxer let you do.

Before this occurred you had 1 player controlling multiple accounts at once all from one screen and this type of artificial manipulation is what CCP want to move away from.