These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Market Discussions

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Starting up station trading...
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Maykid Achilles
No-Mercy
Shadow Ultimatum
#1 - 2016-07-09 22:17:50 UTC
Hey everyone,

So I tried station trading before made a few million isk here and there. But now I'm actually wanting to make more than just the mere couple million here and there. So my big question is, to start off station trading and learning the ropes, what is the best way to go about it? Buying T1 stuff or? Currently I could probably throw 500M into the market right now, but was wondering how to start out if I haven't done station trading before.

Any big tips would be awesome! I've heard some stories that are realistic and some that are very... Hard to see if it's actually true or not. But would love to start making more than what I'm making now doing missions/DED sites and anoms in low/null sec.

-Maykid
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#2 - 2016-07-12 18:39:32 UTC
Buy low, sell high


Any subsequent advice you are given will be some variation on this :)

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
Bryn en Cedoulain
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2016-07-13 02:39:40 UTC
Before you put your money in the market, grind up your corporation and faction status with the owners of your primary points of business. This will reduce your Broker Fee's for placing buy and sell orders. Also train broker relations as high as possible. For the Math look here:

http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/Thoraemond/eve-market-order-broker-fees-20110417.png

Cheers,

It's not the future you're afraid of. Repeating the past is what gives you anxiety!
William Legrand-Marx
Nemesis Ad Astra
#4 - 2016-07-18 16:57:23 UTC  |  Edited by: William Legrand-Marx
Bumblefck wrote:
Buy low, sell high


Any subsequent advice you are given will be some variation on this :)


This is the answer of a person that stays on forum for hours and doesn't know much about own environment.

Se saying that is like saying that integrals are 1+1 and yes you can make an integral with simple algebra to explain it to the kid but gosh, when you tell someone who asks on how to do integral: "just use 1+1"...

This is beyond 'tarded, because at this point it is not even help, it is a joke about a person that asked for help, which is quite low.

There is nothing worthy in this world even if others think it is worth something...
William Legrand-Marx
Nemesis Ad Astra
#5 - 2016-07-18 17:06:24 UTC
Maykid Achilles wrote:
Hey everyone,

So I tried station trading before made a few million isk here and there. But now I'm actually wanting to make more than just the mere couple million here and there. So my big question is, to start off station trading and learning the ropes, what is the best way to go about it? Buying T1 stuff or? Currently I could probably throw 500M into the market right now, but was wondering how to start out if I haven't done station trading before.

Any big tips would be awesome! I've heard some stories that are realistic and some that are very... Hard to see if it's actually true or not. But would love to start making more than what I'm making now doing missions/DED sites and anoms in low/null sec.

-Maykid


Well I would suggest to start with a small market hub, you need to assess the situation about how the trade goes and then start putting up buy orders. Do so for products that have a positive margin with sell orders, also you have to consider inside sell orders the fees and taes charges. After its deduction what is the margin. Also before starting check the price history along the year, if you see that product is in its low of the year it means that that product can either start the growth phase again or remain low for more time. To eliminate stagnation in price volatility aim for products that are in high demand and the traded volume is big, while price of the product is small. Such markets are subject to isk games and price manipulation by guys that say "just buy low and sell high" tier, they happily engage in isk games and sometimes try to wreck that but they never go beyond real market operations.

Yet again I will sugest you to join my guild where we plan to teach people on how to succesfully orientate on the market and avoid traps. Also some pvp to now how to protect yourself and for the fun of course. If interested, pm me. It is indy tier guild so beides meetings in TS server you do what you want pretty much. We have producers, miners, traders, explorers. Currently it is in a recruitment phase.

There is nothing worthy in this world even if others think it is worth something...
Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
Nornir Empire
#6 - 2016-07-18 17:59:34 UTC
Bryn en Cedoulain wrote:
Before you put your money in the market, grind up your corporation and faction status with the owners of your primary points of business. This will reduce your Broker Fee's for placing buy and sell orders. Also train broker relations as high as possible. For the Math look here:

http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/Thoraemond/eve-market-order-broker-fees-20110417.png

Cheers,


Citadel changed the broker's fees, here's Thoraemond's newest version.

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Thoraemond/eve-market-order-broker-fees-2016-04-28.png

Free 3rd party services

Buddy link w/ bonus 250k SP, you keep the whole PLEX upon subscribing
John Volan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2016-07-19 04:40:24 UTC
Personally when I'm looking up items to sell I look at four major factors: the profit margin after taxes and fees, the volume traded, the recent activity and total orders, and whether or not the orders for the item are evenly distributed between buy and sell orders. When you first start out you're likely to go after the highest margin items...only to find out that they rarely ever buy or sell. So you start checking volumes and going to those items... only to encounter lots of competition (you can tell when the orders have all been updated recently). Then you look for lower traffic items and find that sometimes your buy orders don't fill... like in t2 items where manufacturers don't typically sell to traders since they've actually calculated their profits beforehand. And that's why I use those four main criteria for my items to trade.
Maykid Achilles
No-Mercy
Shadow Ultimatum
#8 - 2016-07-19 14:22:23 UTC
John Volan wrote:
Personally when I'm looking up items to sell I look at four major factors: the profit margin after taxes and fees, the volume traded, the recent activity and total orders, and whether or not the orders for the item are evenly distributed between buy and sell orders. When you first start out you're likely to go after the highest margin items...only to find out that they rarely ever buy or sell. So you start checking volumes and going to those items... only to encounter lots of competition (you can tell when the orders have all been updated recently). Then you look for lower traffic items and find that sometimes your buy orders don't fill... like in t2 items where manufacturers don't typically sell to traders since they've actually calculated their profits beforehand. And that's why I use those four main criteria for my items to trade.


Ah alright. Is there a way to calculate after taxes and fees, or is there a mathematic calculation to calculate that?
And looking for high volume items talking about maybe looking at ammo, drones, etc at first just to get an idea from that and go from there?

Also would it be good to say to look at items that move well and have a profit margin of at least 10%?

-Maykid
Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#9 - 2016-07-19 14:49:36 UTC
Maykid Achilles wrote:
John Volan wrote:
Personally when I'm looking up items to sell I look at four major factors: the profit margin after taxes and fees, the volume traded, the recent activity and total orders, and whether or not the orders for the item are evenly distributed between buy and sell orders. When you first start out you're likely to go after the highest margin items...only to find out that they rarely ever buy or sell. So you start checking volumes and going to those items... only to encounter lots of competition (you can tell when the orders have all been updated recently). Then you look for lower traffic items and find that sometimes your buy orders don't fill... like in t2 items where manufacturers don't typically sell to traders since they've actually calculated their profits beforehand. And that's why I use those four main criteria for my items to trade.


Ah alright. Is there a way to calculate after taxes and fees, or is there a mathematic calculation to calculate that?
And looking for high volume items talking about maybe looking at ammo, drones, etc at first just to get an idea from that and go from there?

Also would it be good to say to look at items that move well and have a profit margin of at least 10%?

-Maykid



Generally I look at minimum 10% margin, so there are plenty of items for that. T2 items are actually fine to trade with, if you look at the price history, quite a lot of them go to buys and sells fairly evenly, and they can have very high volume.

Remember if you are not using a citadel, you will have to make sure you arent losing isk with the fees as well, without accounting & broker relations trained, you are looking at 3% each way + 2% sales tax.

Fluffy Bunny Pic!

John Volan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2016-07-19 14:50:48 UTC
You pay a broker's fee on every non-immediate order and in the case of NPC stations it's between 2-3% depending on standings (shown by the chart linked by Elizabeth Norn) and Broker Relations rank. You also automatically pay a sales tax when selling something of 1-2% depending on your Accounting rank. In a Citadel, however, the broker's fee is whatever the owner set's it up to be. So for example, if you're trading in Jita with no skills and no standings you'd have 3% Brokers Fee and 2% Sales Tax. Since the brokers fee goes on both your buy and sell orders you count it twice (although one is technically higher than the other) and the sales tax gives you about 8% of the item's total worth in taxes on your bottom line. Subtract that from the raw margin of the buy and sell order to figure out roughly how much profit you'd make from the item. As you can tell, skills and standings or being in a Citadel are very important for your bottom line.

A profit margin after taxes of 10% is a good goal and as for items to trade it depends on more than just the volume. For example if you can make 100mil from an item that only sells 1/day or 1mil from an item that sells 200/day the second is going to make you more in the long run, I tend to treat margin as equally important as volume and activity.
Maykid Achilles
No-Mercy
Shadow Ultimatum
#11 - 2016-07-19 15:30:21 UTC
John Volan wrote:
You pay a broker's fee on every non-immediate order and in the case of NPC stations it's between 2-3% depending on standings (shown by the chart linked by Elizabeth Norn) and Broker Relations rank. You also automatically pay a sales tax when selling something of 1-2% depending on your Accounting rank. In a Citadel, however, the broker's fee is whatever the owner set's it up to be. So for example, if you're trading in Jita with no skills and no standings you'd have 3% Brokers Fee and 2% Sales Tax. Since the brokers fee goes on both your buy and sell orders you count it twice (although one is technically higher than the other) and the sales tax gives you about 8% of the item's total worth in taxes on your bottom line. Subtract that from the raw margin of the buy and sell order to figure out roughly how much profit you'd make from the item. As you can tell, skills and standings or being in a Citadel are very important for your bottom line.

A profit margin after taxes of 10% is a good goal and as for items to trade it depends on more than just the volume. For example if you can make 100mil from an item that only sells 1/day or 1mil from an item that sells 200/day the second is going to make you more in the long run, I tend to treat margin as equally important as volume and activity.


Ah alright that makes sense, thank you!
Do you have any more tips by chance? These really help out a lot.

-Maykid
John Volan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2016-07-19 15:59:28 UTC
I'm not sure what else I'd say besides little things like using the table in the price history tab instead of the graph so you can see concrete numbers rather than just an overall view. I also tend to use the quickbar a lot, grouping items with different activity into different folders so I can check on just the most active items quickly and occasionally look at the less active ones. And of course the good old notepad comes in handy to link items that were once good but got worse for one reason or another and that you want to come back to later.
Maykid Achilles
No-Mercy
Shadow Ultimatum
#13 - 2016-07-19 16:18:02 UTC
John Volan wrote:
I'm not sure what else I'd say besides little things like using the table in the price history tab instead of the graph so you can see concrete numbers rather than just an overall view. I also tend to use the quickbar a lot, grouping items with different activity into different folders so I can check on just the most active items quickly and occasionally look at the less active ones. And of course the good old notepad comes in handy to link items that were once good but got worse for one reason or another and that you want to come back to later.


Awesome! Will definitely do that. The quickbar is really nice and easy to do.

I also find myself having a notepad every time I play EvE for some reason or another to write down something I see or something I need, it's always nice to have a notepad ready before you forget.

Thank you for the advice, really appreciate it!

-Maykid
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#14 - 2016-07-19 18:58:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Bumblefck
William Legrand-Marx wrote:

Yet again I will sugest you to join my guild where we plan to teach people on how to succesfully orientate on the market and avoid traps. Also some pvp to now how to protect yourself and for the fun of course. If interested, pm me. It is indy tier guild so beides meetings in TS server you do what you want pretty much. We have producers, miners, traders, explorers. Currently it is in a recruitment phase.




...and yet again you keep peddling your **** all over the forums. You treat others' threads as nothing but your own personal classifieds section, and frankly, it is tiresome.


e:
Quote:


Well I would suggest to start with a small market hub, you need to assess the situation about how the trade goes and then start putting up buy orders. Do so for products that have a positive margin with sell orders, also you have to consider inside sell orders the fees and taes charges. After its deduction what is the margin.



You are effectively saying 'buy low and sell high'. That is what I advised the OP to fundamentally do, and you proceeded to flame me. Ridiculous, but then again it's rather par for the course for you and your ilk.

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log