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Navy Apoc vs Nightmare

Author
Kendo Kanli
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2016-07-17 05:37:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Kendo Kanli
Greetings Everyone, I am really torn between the Napoc and the Nightmare for a level 4 missions boat. I've been out of the loop for a while and wondering if the Nightmare was still the one to get when it comes to level 4 missions?

I'm after a solid tank that is cap stable that can solo level 4's with little issue, and i am an armor tanker by preference. Any advice would be appreciated, thank you.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Wild Geese.
#2 - 2016-07-17 05:51:19 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Cap stable and armor?

Yeeaaaaah. You want an Apoc.


However... if you are willing to go outside of your comfort zone (no cap stability and a bit of active shield tanking management) then the Nightmare is your ship. And you will be rewarded with a non-insignificant damage boost.


If you are willing to spend a bit of bling, the Paladin is another option.
Bastion Mode allows you be really skimpy with the tanking mods (allowing you cram more damage and application) and the MicroJumpDrive bonus lets you hopscotch 100km around the mission area every minute or so.
Noah Reese
#3 - 2016-07-17 07:33:55 UTC
A cap stable Napoc is a really bad Napoc and a well fitted one makes good sense given the other options you have. On the other hand, given how cheap funky mods are these days you can "bling" a shield Nightmare without it becoming a gank target and it's actually easier to achieve near stable fit without it being a crap fit, this is mostly due to the NM only having 4 guns. NM is never going to have a massive tank (in a good fit) but normally it doesn't really need it, it's pretty much MADE to be used with Tachyons so you'll be medium to long range most of the time.

The Paladin is indeed the king, the marauderest of all the marauders and another Tach boat. It's glorious.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
Brave Collective
#4 - 2016-07-17 09:27:59 UTC
Noah Reese wrote:
A cap stable Napoc is a really bad Napoc and a well fitted one makes good sense given the other options you have. On the other hand, given how cheap funky mods are these days you can "bling" a shield Nightmare without it becoming a gank target and it's actually easier to achieve near stable fit without it being a crap fit, this is mostly due to the NM only having 4 guns. NM is never going to have a massive tank (in a good fit) but normally it doesn't really need it, it's pretty much MADE to be used with Tachyons so you'll be medium to long range most of the time.

The Paladin is indeed the king, the marauderest of all the marauders and another Tach boat. It's glorious.


Why is a scale made for tachyons? And what nanometer could fit one?

What are you talking about?? Do even EVE?

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

The Bigpuns
Touring New Eden
#5 - 2016-07-17 10:48:41 UTC
Pretty sure above post is non serious. But...

NightMare works well with tachs because it can control range easily. The same reason is true for pulses. But if you fit for pulses, you normally need to sacrifice more slots to tank. And given how good tachs are compared to other lr weapon systems, a nm with tachs is just as viable as with pulses. It's the same as the paladin - there's no clear answer as to whether you should pick one over the other.

Back to the original question op - the nightmare is one of those boats that can be shield or armour tanked. An armour tank has slightly lower dps, but goes a long way to solving your cap issues, particularly against blood or sansha rats.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
Brave Collective
#6 - 2016-07-17 10:58:06 UTC
The Bigpuns wrote:
...a nm with tachs is just as viable as with pulses..


Again, explain that sentence:

a nanometer with tachs??

A Nightmare with tachyons makes sense. Yours should explode and make either your wormholes collapse and destroy the rest of your assets or disband your alliance and make all your stations explode.

Why would anyone fit an armor rep on a shield boat?

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2016-07-17 11:40:38 UTC
Don't use cap stable as a goal for missioning, it's lazy and you're holding the ship back from it's actual potential.

Cap stability is something you need when you are doing something with cap warfare, wormhole anomalies and level 5 missions come to mind for this.
ChromeStriker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2016-07-18 10:46:06 UTC
For pure damage potential the nightmare is king, and for Lv 4's has plenty of tank... armour or shield.
Npoc has range and can fit a stonger armour tank than the nightmare, i wouldnt shield tank it...
Paladin is easy mode... Can tank C5 wormhole sites and Lv5 missions, so a lv 4 is childs play. Lowest dmg of the three tho... so slower clear times.

For hi-sec amarr missions i would fly the nightmare over almost anything else... the only thing that is potentially "better" is the machariel due to its multiple dmg types and faster mission tansversal.

No Worries

Toobo
Project Fruit House
#9 - 2016-07-18 12:45:05 UTC
For L4, where sufficient shield tank can easily accomodate a tracking computer or two in addition to a tracking enhancer or two in the lows, I can't think of any reason why you'd armor fit a Nightmare :p

Cheers Love! The cavalry's here!

Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#10 - 2016-07-18 13:05:21 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Don't use cap stable as a goal for missioning, it's lazy and you're holding the ship back from it's actual potential.

Cap stability is something you need when you are doing something with cap warfare, wormhole anomalies and level 5 missions come to mind for this.

Or for those who simply prefer to fly ships that are cap stable.
Not being cap stable only matters to those who are obsessed to an unhealthy degree with maxing ISK/LP from time spent running missions, for the rest of us the minute or so extra time it takes to complete because cap stable is not relevant and we actually enjoy not having to micro manage cap.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2016-07-18 13:33:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Tsukino Stareine
why is it unhealthy to want to be efficient?

In reverse to this I would say it's unhealthy to be ok with being less efficient when you have the means within your grasp.

Time is the number one commodity in eve, I rather use it effectively when I have it than pander it attempting to make it "afkable"

When I'm playing eve, I'm playing eve, not trying to run facebook and pokemon go while doing level 4 missions.
Omar Alharazaad
New Eden Tech Support
Transgress
#12 - 2016-07-18 13:55:32 UTC
Just a weird shot from deep left field here... go with whatever if most fun for YOU to fly.
I know... crazy.

Screw the numbers. Disengage yourself from notions like 'cap stable'.... hell, you can always fit cap boosters or use silly tricks like MJD's to give yourself some breathing room.

If you're shooting for pure efficiency then is what you're doing really any different from work? Most of us have jobs IRL... we know how much work sucks. Play to play. Fly what you enjoy, hell fly crazy. Sometimes it's fun to take an assault frigate into a level four and mash your way through the mission. Efficient? Absolutely not. Fun? You betchya.

Anal retentive attention to detail is what's given this game the derogatory moniker of 'spreadsheets in space'. Defy that crap, do what makes the game fun for you.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.

Uriam Khanid
New Machinarium Corporation
#13 - 2016-07-18 15:52:23 UTC
ChromeStriker wrote:

Npoc has range and can fit a stonger armour tank than the nightmare, i wouldnt shield tank it...


but i did a shield Napoc for L4. works same as armor Napoc. same dps, same range...
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2016-07-18 19:08:45 UTC
Omar Alharazaad wrote:
Just a weird shot from deep left field here... go with whatever if most fun for YOU to fly.
I know... crazy.

Screw the numbers. Disengage yourself from notions like 'cap stable'.... hell, you can always fit cap boosters or use silly tricks like MJD's to give yourself some breathing room.

If you're shooting for pure efficiency then is what you're doing really any different from work? Most of us have jobs IRL... we know how much work sucks. Play to play. Fly what you enjoy, hell fly crazy. Sometimes it's fun to take an assault frigate into a level four and mash your way through the mission. Efficient? Absolutely not. Fun? You betchya.

Anal retentive attention to detail is what's given this game the derogatory moniker of 'spreadsheets in space'. Defy that crap, do what makes the game fun for you.


I wasn't the one who was imposing my ideas I was just throwing them out there. So again, why are people creating arguments from nothing?

I don't honestly care how you have fun in this game, I was stating my rebuttal against someone who said that enjoying efficiency was unhealthy.
Nikea Tiber
Backwater Enterprises RD
#15 - 2016-07-19 04:32:27 UTC
I'll always fly the NM over the apoc or napoc. Between a bonused AB (what planet did i wake up on where gist x- tupe ABs are only 40 million isk?) and a mjd you can control range and still get aroumd mission grid quickly, at MJD range your sheilds dont take very much npc damage. Only running four vs eight energy turrets is a lot easier on your cap. Between sniping ranges and the tracking bonus, damage application on tachs is really good (not that it really matters when you mjd away and every agressed rat is burning towards you with zero transversal, though).

Armor definetly has a better resist profile for blood and sanshas, but the fact that they use tracking disruptors a lot makes clearing missions in a turret boat an exercise in frustration. If you are committed to energy turrets and are running primarily sansha and blood raiders missions, consider the navy issue geddon, it has got the bandwidth to run five sentry drones which you can use to pop those pesky ewar ships that disrupt you down to blaster range, and enough low slots to fit three heatsinks, a reasonable tank, and a drone damage amplifier. Youll need a cpu implant to make the most of it.

my other nano is a polycarb

March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2016-07-19 06:36:58 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
why is it unhealthy to want to be efficient?

In reverse to this I would say it's unhealthy to be ok with being less efficient when you have the means within your grasp.

Time is the number one commodity in eve, I rather use it effectively when I have it than pander it attempting to make it "afkable"

When I'm playing eve, I'm playing eve, not trying to run facebook and pokemon go while doing level 4 missions.

People proved it already that the most efficient way to make ISK in this game is selling PLEX (unless you dirty poor IRL but in this case you'd better pay less attention to games and more to increse your efficiency IRL).

So it's only reasonable to do any in-game activity if you are having fun doing it.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"

Khan Wrenth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2016-07-19 08:08:00 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
People proved it already that the most efficient way to make ISK in this game is selling PLEX (unless you dirty poor IRL but in this case you'd better pay less attention to games and more to increse your efficiency IRL).

So it's only reasonable to do any in-game activity if you are having fun doing it.

That may be true, but I think there's something to be said for "learning the value of a dollar". I have never sold a plex - I've grinded for every last credit. And during that length of time, I've learned the value of isk, and how quickly it can be lost. I've learned the game mechanics and I know better how to safeguard what I have.

A lot of words were spilled over skill injectors and how slow skill progression gives you time to learn the game, I feel the same argument holds true for isk as well. I recall a video of some kid who bought a character and a bunch of capitals, that he lost within like 48 hours. He was almost bragging about it in audio chat with the someone who recorded it. Grinding for isk helps keep people's head out of the clouds and instead, grounded in reality. When losing a carrier means being out a significant chunk of your in-game earnings, that's a lot different than being out your Sunday morning Starbucks routine once.
The Bigpuns
Touring New Eden
#18 - 2016-07-19 17:15:35 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
The Bigpuns wrote:
...a nm with tachs is just as viable as with pulses..


Again, explain that sentence:

a nanometer with tachs??

A Nightmare with tachyons makes sense. Yours should explode and make either your wormholes collapse and destroy the rest of your assets or disband your alliance and make all your stations explode....

Etc.


I see, you're one of 'those' people.

Go on then, explain how a unit of measurement will cause wormholes, even if it is equipped with big lasers...
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
Brave Collective
#19 - 2016-07-19 21:04:13 UTC
The Bigpuns wrote:
elitatwo wrote:
The Bigpuns wrote:
...a nm with tachs is just as viable as with pulses..


Again, explain that sentence:

a nanometer with tachs??

A Nightmare with tachyons makes sense. Yours should explode and make either your wormholes collapse and destroy the rest of your assets or disband your alliance and make all your stations explode....

Etc.


I see, you're one of 'those' people.

Go on then, explain how a unit of measurement will cause wormholes, even if it is equipped with big lasers...


I asked you first since you are the heretic that wants to violate a Nightmare with armor reps.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

Nikea Tiber
Backwater Enterprises RD
#20 - 2016-07-20 02:25:54 UTC
NM is great with megapulse as well, the dps from megapulse vaporizes rats on extremely short order, and the extra grid available makes fitting large nos easy... select a pair of frigs that arent dangerous to you, now you've got cap slaves. Don't let your drones eat them.

my other nano is a polycarb

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