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Revamp of High/Low Sec
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Roenok Baalnorn
Baalnorn Heavy Industries
#1 - 2016-07-15 15:27:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Roenok Baalnorn
This started out as a response to this thread. But kind of grew into its own thing.

1) Leave 1 region of each race high sec.
1B)Turn the rest of empire into sov null/npc null/lowsec
1C) All high sec systems connection to lowsec/null sec are 0.5 systems. These systems are stripped down. No belts, exploration, missions, anoms, or other pve content. All other high sec systems except these "boarder systems" function normally.

2) Concord has placed a limit of 10 mil SP on high sec players.
2A) Concord requires a license, renewed daily, to operate in high sec. The license cost is 5 million isk per 1 mil sp over 10 million SP per day. ( IE: a 60 mil SP pilot is required to pay a license fee of 250 mil isk a day to operate in high sec)
2B) This license doesnt prevent you from docking,trading, or piloting ships in high sec. However if you undock in a ship without this license, the modules will be offlined and you wont be able to online them again until you reach a 0.5 system or you pay the fee. This license is not necessary for classes designed to move goods. IE: freighters, industrials, bowhead, etc. Modules on these ships will work without the license.

3) Concord and SWAT:
3A) Concord now stays on grid at all gates and docks( including citadels).
3B) Concord SWAT reinforces Concord on grid of gates and docks as necessary. Concord SWAT has had response times reduced by 50%.
3C) Concord/ SWAT will now pod criminals that have committed a crime in the last 30 minutes.

4) Criminals will not be allowed to use gates/docks/ tether/ log off safely for 30 minutes after committing a criminal act. The only way to dock is to be podded in this 30 minutes.

5) Wardecs have been revamped.
5A) the fees have been reduced drastically but are still based on size.
5B) Wardecs are system specific( you must pay the fee for each system)
5C) If you enter a system in which you are on either side of the wardec, your ships modules will be onlined by the gate as you jump through. This allows you to attack or defend yourself without having to try to online your modules first.
5D) Wardecs main purpose is citadel removal in high sec, thus why its limited to specific systems.

6) Lowsec ADS( Autonomous Defense Systems). These replace gate and dock guns.
6A) Destructible but has a 10k/ sec repper with a 100% chance of repping and 90% omni resist. Respawn is 5 minutes if it is destroyed.
6B) Target Range of 350KM max 8 targets
6C) Infinipoint warp scram to 150 KM max 4 targets
6D) 80% web to 125 KM max 4 targets
6E) Multispec ECM of 30 points out to 150KM. max 4 targets
6F) Neut of 250 cap/sec. 100 km Optimal, 150KM falloff max 4 targets
6G) Turret weapon shoots 1500 Em/1500 Therm/1500 Kin/1500 Exp every 3 seconds. Max 2 targets

7) Concord Mercenaries( lowsec): Concord Mercs are NPCs hired by concord as mercs to enforce concord laws in low sec. They are Weaker( and thus can be defeated) and only pursue while on grid( thus you can safe up in a safe spot or even warp to planet/sun/etc to get away) Concord Merc ships( all average 60% resist shield and armor and 70% hull):
7A) Frigate: 2500 HP shield and armor, 3000 HP hull. 40 DPS each EM/Therm/Kin/Exp(160 dps total) 20km/30km range. Single point to 25KM
7B) Destroyer: 3000 HP shield and armor, 4000 hp hull, 80 dps each dam type(320 dps total), 30km/25 km range.50% web 15KM.
7C) Cruiser: 7500 HP, shield and armor, 9000 hp hull, 50% chance to rep 1500 damage/ 5 seconds(shield and armor), 120 dps each dam type( 480 total), 40km/30 km range, 3 point scram 20 KM.
7D) Battlecruiser: 10000 shield and armor, 12000 hull 50% chance to rep 1500 damage/5 seconds( shield and armor), 150 DPS each damage type( 600 dps total), 45km/35km range, neuts 80 cap / 5 seconds @20km/20km.
7E) Battleship: 15000 shield and armor, 20000 hull, 50% chance to rep 2000 damage/ 5 seconds ( shield and armor), 250 DPS each damage type,( 1000 total) 60km/50 km range.

8) Concord Merc Response:Mercs have decent response times as a response to being tankable/killable.
8A) Initial response( frigate warp in times): 0.4 sec = 4 seconds, 0.3 sec =6 seconds, 0.2 sec= 10 sec, 0.1 sec = 16 sec
8B) Destroyers -Battleships warp in a set amount of time after the frigate lands provided the frigate is still aggressing/aggressed or has died. 2 seconds is added to warp in time for every .1 below .4.
- Destroyer- 8 seconds after frig lands
- Cruiser - 18 seconds after frig lands
- Battlecruiser- 30 seconds after frig lands
- Battleship - 50 seconds after frig lands
8C) Waves: Additional support waves may be called in if the concord mercs are still fighting after a period of time( they must be aggressed/aggressing for another wave to spawn) The waves start with a frigate and repeat "8B" as follows( times are after initial concord merc aggression).:
-0.4 = 2.5 minutes per wave/ 10 waves max.
- 0.3= 3 minutes per wave /8 waves max
- 0.2 = 4 minutes per wave/ 5 waves max.
-0.1 = 6 minutes per wave/ 3 waves max.
Roenok Baalnorn
Baalnorn Heavy Industries
#2 - 2016-07-15 15:27:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Roenok Baalnorn
9)Concord Merc Loot:Concord drops loot but has no bounty.
9A) Concord Merc loot: T1 Modules, Semi Rarely drops T2 modules.
9B) The Concord that gets the final blow on the ship( Only if they get the final blow) loots the wreck. ( They are mercs after all).
9C)Concord Merc collect the loot from ships they destroyed. This loot stays in their cargohold until they are destroyed.
9D)When a concord merc is destroyed. It has the same drop chance of dropping loot as a player ship. Thus Concord Mercs can drop any loot they have looted from players plus their own loot. This makes killing concord mercs possibly profitable.

10) Combat and Exploration PVE:
10A) All rat bounties have been increased in lowsec and null by 20%
10B) Site and anomoly spawns have been increased by 25%
10C) Belt rat spawns have been increased by 50%

11) Mining Enhancements:
11A)Combat Mining System( low slot module): Combines ore yield with added defense capabilities.Can only be fitted to mining frigates, barges, exhumers.Seperate but similar modules for ice and gas.
- T1 module= 4% to ore yield and 6% to shield HP
- T2 = 7% to ore yield and 11% to shield HP
11B)Mining Boosters( Drugs!). Only useable in low and null sec. Last 1 hour.Works for ore/ice/gas.
- Standard Rush = 5% to mining yield, -10% to agility
- Improved Rush = 10% to mining yield, -20% to agility
- Strong Rush = 15% to mining yield, -30% to agility
- Mega Rush =25% to mining yield, -60% to agility.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#3 - 2016-07-15 16:09:48 UTC
Roll
Cade Windstalker
#4 - 2016-07-15 16:15:23 UTC
This whole thing is completely unfeasible.

This would utterly destroy at least 90% of high-sec play styles in the game, never mind the effect on existing players if the map was changed like you're proposing, and by extension would wreck the ability of players to get out into Low and Null with ISK earned in High Sec.

Seriously what makes you think this or anything like it will *ever* happen?
darkneko
Come And Get Your Love
#5 - 2016-07-15 16:27:34 UTC
-10 especially to 2, there is no way you can make that much isk in high sec a day and the cap is way to low.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#6 - 2016-07-15 16:31:02 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Drastically increases security in high-sec... check.

Drastically Increases security in low-sec... check.

Penalizes non-consensual combat in most forms... check.

Mechanics that add additional NPC security (and thus circumvent the "team play" aspect of an MMO) for those with the biggest wallets... check.

Increases NPC rewards for extra farming income... check.

Increases mining yields and mining barge defenses without really understanding that this will decrease mining income... check.



tldr: this is a high-sec carebear's wet dream.

How did you Veterans start?
Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#7 - 2016-07-15 16:35:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Maldiro Selkurk
This idea ranks in the top 10 of worst suggestions i have read on the forums in the 3.5 years i have been playing the game so.......

Is your understanding of game balance really, truly this bad or......

Is this just some troll thread ?


1) If you truly believe this, stop playing ALL video games where balance between two or more players is required.

2) if you are trolling then you get 100/100 because this is an epic troll thread if ever there was one.

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#8 - 2016-07-15 16:49:43 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Drastically increases security in high-sec... check.

Drastically Increases security in low-sec... check.

Penalizes non-consensual combat in most forms... check.

Mechanics that add additional NPC security (and thus circumvent the "team play" aspect of an MMO) for those with the biggest wallets... check.

Increases NPC rewards for extra farming income... check.

Increases mining yields and mining barge defenses without really understanding that this will decrease mining income... check.



tldr: this is a high-sec carebear's wet dream.


Did we read the same statement because we seriously got different things out of it ?


Lowsec and nullsec are expanded greatly in size (highsec suffers)

Making lowsec and nullsec the only viable places to play the game isnt going to make highsec players safer.

agree that increase in NPC security is stupid.

goes to more NPCs being stupid.

Mining vessels need more parity of cost with the gankers, ganking is currently too cheap vs the losses that the miner suffers. It is ALWAYS feasible for gankers to gank which makes the game one-sided, predictable and boring.

I can assure you that this is not a highsec players wet dream but nearly our worst nightmare.

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2016-07-15 16:57:43 UTC
Most cancerous idea I've ever seen... I don't have words for how awful this idea sounds.

Abso-freaking-lutely no.
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#10 - 2016-07-15 17:01:32 UTC
Dryson and Droidster take many forms

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
Darkwing Fiftytwo
Hookers N' Blow
#11 - 2016-07-15 17:35:19 UTC
There is no need to change the # of systems in any of the three categories, 5,000 is enough.
Roenok Baalnorn
Baalnorn Heavy Industries
#12 - 2016-07-15 18:57:28 UTC
Wow insta-winery. Cant say i wasnt expecting it. Ok so...

Quote:
This would utterly destroy at least 90% of high-sec play styles in the game, never mind the effect on existing players if the map was changed like you're proposing, and by extension would wreck the ability of players to get out into Low and Null with ISK earned in High Sec.
Thats the point. High sec carebear shouldnt be a career much like welfare recipient shouldnt be a career. This is pvp game, not space farmville.

You are being seriously overly dramatic about OMG dont have enough isk to get to low, null. I went to null with 80 mil isk, a frigate, 1.5 mil sp, and the shirt on my back. And i lost the frigate and the shirt on my back on the way to the destination. I did fine. How much isk do you think you need? 500 mil? a billion? 500 billion? Your moving to null sec not buying it.

10 mil SP is plenty. Im running up to 5/10 ded sites with less than 2 million solo. 10 mil is at least 6 months of training.

Quote:
there is no way you can make that much isk in high sec a day and the cap is way to low.
Thats the point. You shouldnt be 50 mil sp and living it up in highsec. If you want to be a high SP player then you need to either pay to hang out in newbie land or move to a more appropriate level for your skills

Quote:
Drastically increases security in high-sec... check.

Drastically Increases security in low-sec... check.

Penalizes non-consensual combat in most forms... check.

Mechanics that add additional NPC security (and thus circumvent the "team play" aspect of an MMO) for those with the biggest wallets... check.

Increases NPC rewards for extra farming income... check.

Increases mining yields and mining barge defenses without really understanding that this will decrease mining income... check.

high sec security- yes, its for newbs not experienced skilled players. 5 yr vets shouldnt be running around ganking 2 day old characters trying to figure the game out.

Yes low sec security is increased. Low sec right now is about worthless for actual pve activity. Most pvers can barely get around without getting ganked. Your not going to get pvers in there to actually do stuff unless you make it somewhat safer. And you can still gank players. Concord mercs are not undefeatable, especially if you are in a small gang. They arent extremely hard to get away from either. Just dont try ganking at gates, docks.
Non- consenual combat. in low sec is still very doable and completely unchanged in null. Dont know if you are aware but most pvp in this game happens outside of highsec.

additional NPC security- Yes because PVErs are the pillars of teamplay...if you count the guy in the orca with 7 alts in hulks stripping a belt as "teamplay" PVErs tend to play very much solo. Playing in a group as pver doesnt do anything but give a pvper more options and kills without much effort. I warp into a site and see 3 T1 BCs running it, do you think i go " oh no better not mess with these guys"? Nope. I determine which one is the most squishy and take him out first, if i need to get out im free to do so. My ship is built for this situation, theirs is not. And likely whoever i tackle his buddies are going to GTFO.

And if you are referencing high sec in this as well. The point is to get people out of high sec. Unless your a newb, high sec should be a mostly undesirable place to be.

Also it encourages teamplay...for pvpers. Your not going to get PVErs to play as a team unless you make teamplay more rewarding than solo, and even then they just use 5 alts.

mining increase- actually no it wont. There will be a sp threshold in which you lose more money than you gain mining in highsec. And that is the point. The boosters are only allowed in low/null. The mining upgrade is actually less than normal mining upgrades so is less useful for highsec mining. Less people will mine or they will mine less because they cant do it with little risk 24/7 while watching tv or reading a book. They have to somewhat pay attention. So it should keep prices fairly stable.

Quote:
Lowsec and nullsec are expanded greatly in size (highsec suffers)

Making lowsec and nullsec the only viable places to play the game isnt going to make highsec players safer.


Mining vessels need more parity of cost with the gankers, ganking is currently too cheap vs the losses that the miner suffers. It is ALWAYS feasible for gankers to gank which makes the game one-sided, predictable and boring.

I can assure you that this is not a highsec players wet dream but nearly our worst nightmare.
So what you got out of that is "working as intended". The point is to get you out of high sec and play the actual game...the entire game. The intent of this is :
* to get players out of highsec when they reach a decent skill level. Since bears arent smart enough to figure out they can make 3-4 times more isk with less risk in sov null despite the fact null people been telling this for like a decade, then we need to push them out. Sometimes you have to drown the horse to make it drink.
* To make lowsec more viable for PVE. Rather than sneak in an empty system and try to ninja a site real fast. Low sec is the least used for PVE of any of the 3 types of sec status.
* To give newbies a place where they can learn the game without some douche ganking them, baiting them, or stealing their stuff constantly.

Quote:
There is no need to change the # of systems in any of the three categories, 5,000 is enough.
There is no reason for goonswarm to own 5 regions or blue 3/4 of eve either but they try and sometimes succeed. And yes there is a reason for this. To get people out of highsec. My entire intention is to get people out of highsec. And since thats my intention empire doesnt need to be the ridiculous 20 regions it is now. All that does is encourage wow in space.
Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
#13 - 2016-07-15 19:22:29 UTC
You do realize that if you remove all the sheep, the wolves won't last much longer...

--Gadget

Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist

Given an hour to save New Eden, how would respected scientist, Albertus Eisenstein compose his thoughts? "Fifty-five minutes to define the problem; save the galaxy in five."
Zatar Sharisa
New Eden Heavy Industries Incorporated
#14 - 2016-07-15 19:53:19 UTC
Roenok Baalnorn wrote:
Thats the point. High sec carebear shouldnt be a career much like welfare recipient shouldnt be a career. This is pvp game, not space farmville.


And you're exactly....who to decide this? Some of us are casual players at best. I've no intention of this becoming a second job to worry about "gettin' gud." If I wanted a second career, I'd go out and find one in the real world. Since I'm on this game to relax and enjoy a very pretty game, again, I've no interest in heading, or being forced, out into low sec or null sec to play your, what I consider, very silly games of polishing your e-peen. That you don't get it, like it, or see it as relevant is beside the point. Go find some other mooks who get off on playing victim for you.

I understand about indecision, but I don't care if I get behind.  People livin' in competition.  All I want is to have my peace of mind.

"Peace of Mind"  --  Boston
Kujo Minowara
Solitary Ground
#15 - 2016-07-15 19:58:44 UTC
You are basically suggesting not to add anything to EVE, but to change what EVE is to something completely different. If the game you propose to change EVE into would be a better game or not is besides the point.
unidenify
Deaf Armada
#16 - 2016-07-15 20:05:51 UTC
to get more people out to low/null
we need to reduce reward from high sec, and increase risk as well.

People value risk more high than reward. aka they prefer low risk - low reward than high risk - high reward.

my solution -
High incursion can only have scout/Vanguard site, and only spawn around .7 or lower
L4 mission agent always sent you to .6 or lower
rebalance Concord respond by increase gap between 1.0 and 0.5 response plus 50-150% increase in response time (slower)
additional 5 sec response if criminal activity occur in dead space (in anywhere from 1.0-0.5)
Xaros IX
Doomheim
#17 - 2016-07-15 20:39:38 UTC
Another idea is to convert high sec to low sec depending on activity. In a 0.5 system, if ppl dont grind hard and theres alot of suicide ganks happening. then that system will go to 0.4. I mean CODE will be extremely busy spreading losec like cancer. :D . Only 0.5 systems though, then systems adjacent to that, will become 0.5. And there we go again, CODE of ethics is a GO! 0.7 and up systems wont be able to convert, CONCORD wont allow proselytism there. 0.4 systems without activity will become 0.5, till a kill happens. Then it will go back to 0.4. So there you go, under these conditions you will get to have caps in high sec for a brief interval, in that specific system. 2 Birds with 1 stone.

A proselytism module could also be anchored, and if hai sec carebears don't do something about it , then they will lose their precious mission system. When hai sec carebear hit the module, they dont get a timer, so they can form a big humongous CAREBEAR STRIKE FORCE and keep their system. Also you can anchor proselytism modules in 0.4-0.3 lowsec system and convert them to 0.5. More mining ops !!!!

Just a thought, just a playful thought
Xaros IX
Doomheim
#18 - 2016-07-15 21:17:17 UTC
Proselytized high sec systems wont allow caps to dock so they can only remain in space, removing any chance of safe stowage.

Proselytism could also work for npc 0.0, allowing for sov space to be created. Proselytism module will get attacked by rats in an effort to turn the system back into npc. Small chance for Commander rat spawn.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#19 - 2016-07-15 22:25:17 UTC
You have a terrible history of posts but this takes the biscuit

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#20 - 2016-07-16 05:49:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Maldiro Selkurk
roenok baalnorn wrote:

So what you got out of that is "working as intended". The point is to get you out of high sec and play the actual game...the entire game. The intent of this is :
* to get players out of highsec when they reach a decent skill level. Since bears arent smart enough to figure out they can make 3-4 times more isk with less risk in sov null despite the fact null people been telling this for like a decade, then we need to push them out. Sometimes you have to drown the horse to make it drink.
* To make lowsec more viable for PVE. Rather than sneak in an empty system and try to ninja a site real fast. Low sec is the least used for PVE of any of the 3 types of sec status.
* To give newbies a place where they can learn the game without some douche ganking them, baiting them, or stealing their stuff constantly.


1. What i got out of it is you have a very narrow view of the complex game that is EVE and the rich variety of options players have to play the game as they choose and not the way you want them to play.

2. I got that you want to destroy game play for others and destroy parts of EVE so that it conforms to your narrow view of EVE.

3. I got that you want to destroy the uniquely challenging environment of lowsec that a low of players call home, again because it doesnt fall in line with your narrow view of how EVE should be played.

4. CCP already took steps to soften the blow for new players entering the game but you expect them to coddle new players to the point that when and if they decide to venture out into wh, low, or nullsec they will suffer such a shock at the aggression found their they will probably be much more likely to quit the game forever.

5. I got that as another facet of your narrow view of playing EVE that all players enjoyment of the game is based on ISK/HOUR when i can assure you that there are a fair number of us that could give a rats ass about ISK/HOUR so long as we feel we receive enough ISK/HOUR to suit or personal goals.

6. I also get that you dont understand that some of us would give up 3x our ISK/HOUR to be largely left alone because pvp causes not enjoyment for us but rather anxiety and some of us have plenty of anxiety in our RL and while we accept we will be ganked periodically we have zero desire to pvp beyond that level.

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
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