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Citadel Bumping
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Eldwinn
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2016-07-15 15:17:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Eldwinn
So there was a couple mentions from CCP when the citadel expansion happened regarding bumping. The short of the matter is that bumping could occur. That the pilots needed to be "safe". At least that is what CCP said in their posts. There have been past petitions and posts where CCP clarified on bumping in general. If you cannot lock the target, you cannot bump. Pretty simple stuff. So why do I need to "safe", when in the past people got banned for that stuff?

Reference

With the reference material in mind and with the current mechanics, has CCP been enforcing this? Where you bump someone off a citadel that is not lockable, you get banned? Yes I also realize that a "petition" is probably the best place to get that information. However let's be honest here, GMs tend to never be consistent. The post regarding "being safe" from being bumped on a citadel but the post in the reference contradict one another.
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#2 - 2016-07-15 15:25:24 UTC
Please show us on the Citadel doll where the bad pilot bumped you.

☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Pandora Carrollon
Provi Rapid Response
#3 - 2016-07-15 15:25:45 UTC
I bump things all the time without a target lock, but I'm not a bumping expert so I might be missing out on a mechanical detail here.

You just fly your ship into the thing you wish to bump. I think you can automatically do it with the "Approach" command, just right click on something in space and select "Approach". As far as I know it keeps approaching until you lose velocity or the item goes away.

Anyone able to clarify this for me?

8 Golden Rules of EVE • EVE is entirely PvP
Eldwinn
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4 - 2016-07-15 15:29:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Eldwinn
Doc Fury wrote:
Please show us on the Citadel doll where the bad pilot bumped you.


I personally lost no ships. Rather I see people doing this all the time. Being bumping ships that are not lockable.

Pandora Carrollon wrote:
I bump things all the time without a target lock, but I'm not a bumping expert so I might be missing out on a mechanical detail here.

You just fly your ship into the thing you wish to bump. I think you can automatically do it with the "Approach" command, just right click on something in space and select "Approach". As far as I know it keeps approaching until you lose velocity or the item goes away.

Anyone able to clarify this for me?


Right and I get that, thing is in the past our pilots got permabans for that. On all of their accounts. Yet it seems like people do it anyways and get away with it. Hence the post and indirectly asking for clarification on the matter.
Omar Alharazaad
New Eden Tech Support
#5 - 2016-07-15 15:35:07 UTC
permabans for bumping?
I sincerely doubt that.... unless it was bumping using ISBox to marco bumps en masse with their swarm of bots.
That's a bad and the hammer drops for such things.
But bumping? Narp. That happens all over the place all the time.
Bowling for capitals inside POS forcefields is a different thing, and if I recall correctly, naughty.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
Sustrai Aditua
Intandofisa
#6 - 2016-07-15 15:48:02 UTC
Is this BS week on the internet? Sad

If we get chased by zombies, I'm tripping you.
Soel Reit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2016-07-15 15:53:10 UTC
https://support.eveonline.com/hc/en-us/articles/204873262-Known-Declared-Exploits

exploit
- Exploit Notification - Starbase Forcefield Ship Bumping:
Bumping ships out of force fields without having access to the POS.
Using any method to bump a ship out of the safe confines of a Starbase force field is an exploit if the bumper does not have access rights to said forcefield.

not exploit
- Ship Bumping:
Ram the ship of another player with your own in order to prevent them from warping.

that's all i've found...............
i think that bumbing ships to prevent them from warping being anywhere in space (stations, citadels, etc) it's your case.
so not exploitPiratePiratePirate
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#8 - 2016-07-15 16:02:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
The reference material refers to a specific exploit, which was POS bowling ~ bumping stuff out of a POS forcefield that you didn't have access rights to.

Bumping, with few exceptions such as the above, has long been considered to be legitimate gameplay by CCP, and despite the recent changes to the mechanic is still considered to be legitimate gameplay by CCP.

Until they declare bumping stuff in the vicinity of a Citadel to be an exploit, it's not one.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
#9 - 2016-07-15 17:54:37 UTC
And here I was wondering just how far you could bump a Citadel....

--Disappointed Gadget

Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist

Given an hour to save New Eden, how would respected scientist, Albertus Eisenstein compose his thoughts? "Fifty-five minutes to define the problem; save the galaxy in five."
Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
#10 - 2016-07-15 17:56:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Gadget Helmsdottir
Eldwinn wrote:


Right and I get that, thing is in the past our pilots got permabans for that. On all of their accounts. Yet it seems like people do it anyways and get away with it. Hence the post and indirectly asking for clarification on the matter.


That sounds weird, and makes me question if they were banned for some other reason.

Still, we can manually pilot now, so....

--Gadget

Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist

Given an hour to save New Eden, how would respected scientist, Albertus Eisenstein compose his thoughts? "Fifty-five minutes to define the problem; save the galaxy in five."
Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2016-07-15 18:09:55 UTC
Eldwinn wrote:
So there was a couple mentions from CCP when the citadel expansion happened regarding bumping. The short of the matter is that bumping could occur. That the pilots needed to be "safe". At least that is what CCP said in their posts. There have been past petitions and posts where CCP clarified on bumping in general. If you cannot lock the target, you cannot bump. Pretty simple stuff. So why do I need to "safe", when in the past people got banned for that stuff?

Reference

With the reference material in mind and with the current mechanics, has CCP been enforcing this? Where you bump someone off a citadel that is not lockable, you get banned? Yes I also realize that a "petition" is probably the best place to get that information. However let's be honest here, GMs tend to never be consistent. The post regarding "being safe" from being bumped on a citadel but the post in the reference contradict one another.
Here it is from the horse's mouth:

"A tethered ship can still collide with other ships and as such may be bumped outside of the tethering range. To prevent this from happening, please dock the ship."

CCP has been working on a game mechanism to prevent tethered ship being bumped, but has yet to deploy it.
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#12 - 2016-07-15 18:33:06 UTC
POS bowling was illegal because it involved people bumping ships inside a *force field* - specifically a force field that they *did not have access to*.

However, bumping a ship out of a POS is 100% legal *if you have the force field password or are in the corp/alliance and thus are allowed inside without a password*. You still can't target anything while you are inside the force field - but you are *allowed to bump*.

The citadel has no force field - thus removing any possible chance of an exploit...and making bumping legal.

Move along, nothing more to see here...

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
Eldwinn
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#13 - 2016-07-15 18:34:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Eldwinn
Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:
That sounds weird, and makes me question if they were banned for some other reason.

Still, we can manually pilot now, so....

--Gadget


Nope, we know this because we know the pilot that got banned on a personal level. All he was doing was bumping the titan that had its head sticking out. Though it was not lockable.

Quote:
Here it is from the horse's mouth:

"A tethered ship can still collide with other ships and as such may be bumped outside of the tethering range. To prevent this from happening, please dock the ship."

CCP has been working on a game mechanism to prevent tethered ship being bumped, but has yet to deploy it.


Thanks. That is what I was looking for.
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#14 - 2016-07-15 18:47:22 UTC
Eldwinn wrote:
ecause we know the pilot that got banned on a personal level. All he was doing was bumping the titan that had its head sticking out. Though it was not lockable.

To clarify, since I know you are typing a reply to me right now about it - POS force field edges visually shift/move, so it is really hard to tell where they actually start/end. This was a large part of how the exploit got started.

As such, CCP ruled that any ship that was not lockable was *inside* the force field.

Still not relevant to why it was illegal - just the official line between legal/illegal for that specific scenario given the misleading visuals in the game.

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
#15 - 2016-07-15 19:00:12 UTC
Eldwinn wrote:
Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:
That sounds weird, and makes me question if they were banned for some other reason.

Still, we can manually pilot now, so....

--Gadget


Nope, we know this because we know the pilot that got banned on a personal level. All he was doing was bumping the titan that had its head sticking out. Though it was not lockable.


Ah! Now I understand, The pilot was banned for bumping a ship out of a POS that they couldn't access.
That's what's meant by 'unlockable".

Got it. Thanks.

--Gadget


Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist

Given an hour to save New Eden, how would respected scientist, Albertus Eisenstein compose his thoughts? "Fifty-five minutes to define the problem; save the galaxy in five."