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State of Eve: War Dec
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Kaldi Tsukaya
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
Citizen's Star Republic
#421 - 2016-07-14 23:08:26 UTC
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:

Half of those wardec spamming corps aren't even that good on a per-pilot basis...And even if they were most of them can barely scrape together 10 people on an average night, and they all camp the same gates. Any time you guys want to kill them all you have to do is pull together a couple hundred dirt cheap t1 frigates from among their thousands and thousands of people at war with them and go steamroll them.

If they stop camping gates? You win. If they don't? Kill them again...


But no no no, it is "hopeless" - *somebody else* needs to deal with it. Preferably CCP with another heavy-handed mechanics change, right? Roll


Reading too much into my post.
It is what it is. Adapt or die.

We have adapted.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#422 - 2016-07-14 23:24:38 UTC
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:

Half of those wardec spamming corps aren't even that good on a per-pilot basis...And even if they were most of them can barely scrape together 10 people on an average night, and they all camp the same gates. Any time you guys want to kill them all you have to do is pull together a couple hundred dirt cheap t1 frigates from among their thousands and thousands of people at war with them and go steamroll them.

If they stop camping gates? You win. If they don't? Kill them again...


But no no no, it is "hopeless" - *somebody else* needs to deal with it. Preferably CCP with another heavy-handed mechanics change, right? Roll


This. Stop your whining. Get in cheap yet combat effective ships, team up and go wipe the floor with them. Force them to dock up...do it often enough and guaranteed they'll drop the wars against everyone involved.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#423 - 2016-07-14 23:25:29 UTC
Kaldi Tsukaya wrote:
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:

Half of those wardec spamming corps aren't even that good on a per-pilot basis...And even if they were most of them can barely scrape together 10 people on an average night, and they all camp the same gates. Any time you guys want to kill them all you have to do is pull together a couple hundred dirt cheap t1 frigates from among their thousands and thousands of people at war with them and go steamroll them.

If they stop camping gates? You win. If they don't? Kill them again...


But no no no, it is "hopeless" - *somebody else* needs to deal with it. Preferably CCP with another heavy-handed mechanics change, right? Roll


Reading too much into my post.
It is what it is. Adapt or die.

We have adapted.


So....you made a choice to spin your ships or not log in? Is that what you are saying?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#424 - 2016-07-14 23:27:51 UTC
Kaldi Tsukaya wrote:
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:

Half of those wardec spamming corps aren't even that good on a per-pilot basis...And even if they were most of them can barely scrape together 10 people on an average night, and they all camp the same gates. Any time you guys want to kill them all you have to do is pull together a couple hundred dirt cheap t1 frigates from among their thousands and thousands of people at war with them and go steamroll them.

If they stop camping gates? You win. If they don't? Kill them again...


But no no no, it is "hopeless" - *somebody else* needs to deal with it. Preferably CCP with another heavy-handed mechanics change, right? Roll


Reading too much into my post.
It is what it is. Adapt or die.

We have adapted.

TBH that was directed at everybody in general who is complaining about wardecs being too hard/etc - not you specifically. But whatever works.

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
Kaldi Tsukaya
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
Citizen's Star Republic
#425 - 2016-07-14 23:39:55 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Kaldi Tsukaya wrote:
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:

Half of those wardec spamming corps aren't even that good on a per-pilot basis...And even if they were most of them can barely scrape together 10 people on an average night, and they all camp the same gates. Any time you guys want to kill them all you have to do is pull together a couple hundred dirt cheap t1 frigates from among their thousands and thousands of people at war with them and go steamroll them.

If they stop camping gates? You win. If they don't? Kill them again...


But no no no, it is "hopeless" - *somebody else* needs to deal with it. Preferably CCP with another heavy-handed mechanics change, right? Roll


Reading too much into my post.
It is what it is. Adapt or die.

We have adapted.


So....you made a choice to spin your ships or not log in? Is that what you are saying?


Roll
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#426 - 2016-07-15 05:37:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Teckos Pech wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Black Pedro wrote:
Why should the target always have a chance to fight back?.


Think about that question...


Okay, I have, so?

This e-bushido nonsense is just that, nonsense.


Your comment is nonsense..., no one except for you is talking about e-bushido, crawl back to your hole of incompetence in EXE.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#427 - 2016-07-15 05:39:14 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Was there a point to this non-sequitur?

Quote:
My suggestion was to create a point of weakness for the war dec entities that gives them back functionality that they have lost with the object of giving those weaker people something they can have some success with, and something that could cause them to grow better and take the fight in more fun for both sides way. Hisec war decs on hisec entities what there is of them is akin to baby seal clubbing. I am not suggesting this to have the ability to win, I am suggesting this to have a possibility to resist.


I don't think you are going to achieve that goal because the problem is not mechanics, but attitudes. A guy who simply logs in to run missions or mine or both is a guy who has zero interest in PvP. He won't even know the mechanics and has zero interest in learning the mechanics.


Well having been involved with AG I can also point out that this is bull, there is not a huge number granted, but there are more than you certainly know.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#428 - 2016-07-15 05:40:07 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:

Half of those wardec spamming corps aren't even that good on a per-pilot basis...And even if they were most of them can barely scrape together 10 people on an average night, and they all camp the same gates. Any time you guys want to kill them all you have to do is pull together a couple hundred dirt cheap t1 frigates from among their thousands and thousands of people at war with them and go steamroll them.

If they stop camping gates? You win. If they don't? Kill them again...


But no no no, it is "hopeless" - *somebody else* needs to deal with it. Preferably CCP with another heavy-handed mechanics change, right? Roll


This. Stop your whining. Get in cheap yet combat effective ships, team up and go wipe the floor with them. Force them to dock up...do it often enough and guaranteed they'll drop the wars against everyone involved.


You go and do it, your alliance gets war decs, you lose a huge number of ships to them, walk the walk, don't talk the talk...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#429 - 2016-07-15 06:44:45 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:

Half of those wardec spamming corps aren't even that good on a per-pilot basis...And even if they were most of them can barely scrape together 10 people on an average night, and they all camp the same gates. Any time you guys want to kill them all you have to do is pull together a couple hundred dirt cheap t1 frigates from among their thousands and thousands of people at war with them and go steamroll them.

If they stop camping gates? You win. If they don't? Kill them again...


But no no no, it is "hopeless" - *somebody else* needs to deal with it. Preferably CCP with another heavy-handed mechanics change, right? Roll


This. Stop your whining. Get in cheap yet combat effective ships, team up and go wipe the floor with them. Force them to dock up...do it often enough and guaranteed they'll drop the wars against everyone involved.


You go and do it, your alliance gets war decs, you lose a huge number of ships to them, walk the walk, don't talk the talk...


Actually we don't lose "huge" numbers of ships. Yes some people die. But for us, going and engaging such players is not what we want to do. If people are individually foolish enough to try an do things in HS during a war dec that is not the alliance or the corporations concern.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#430 - 2016-07-15 06:45:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Dracvlad wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Was there a point to this non-sequitur?

Quote:
My suggestion was to create a point of weakness for the war dec entities that gives them back functionality that they have lost with the object of giving those weaker people something they can have some success with, and something that could cause them to grow better and take the fight in more fun for both sides way. Hisec war decs on hisec entities what there is of them is akin to baby seal clubbing. I am not suggesting this to have the ability to win, I am suggesting this to have a possibility to resist.


I don't think you are going to achieve that goal because the problem is not mechanics, but attitudes. A guy who simply logs in to run missions or mine or both is a guy who has zero interest in PvP. He won't even know the mechanics and has zero interest in learning the mechanics.


Well having been involved with AG I can also point out that this is bull, there is not a huge number granted, but there are more than you certainly know.


AG is not the same as war decs. The ganking fleet is not going to engage you. You are not flashy red to them, so it is a Bravo Sierra comparison.

Let me be clear, AG basically hide behind CONCORD's skirts. If it were the case that you AG guys got together and formed an actual corporation maybe even an alliance and war decced CODE. and tried to engage them you might have something. Instead you guys sit around and either rep a guy getting ganked, try to counter bump, or wait for the gankers to go flashy red and shoot them before CONCORD finishes them off.

Yeah, those guys are going to fight a war dec. GMAFB.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#431 - 2016-07-15 06:56:30 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:

Half of those wardec spamming corps aren't even that good on a per-pilot basis...And even if they were most of them can barely scrape together 10 people on an average night, and they all camp the same gates. Any time you guys want to kill them all you have to do is pull together a couple hundred dirt cheap t1 frigates from among their thousands and thousands of people at war with them and go steamroll them.

If they stop camping gates? You win. If they don't? Kill them again...


But no no no, it is "hopeless" - *somebody else* needs to deal with it. Preferably CCP with another heavy-handed mechanics change, right? Roll


This. Stop your whining. Get in cheap yet combat effective ships, team up and go wipe the floor with them. Force them to dock up...do it often enough and guaranteed they'll drop the wars against everyone involved.


You go and do it, your alliance gets war decs, you lose a huge number of ships to them, walk the walk, don't talk the talk...


Actually we don't lose "huge" numbers of ships. Yes some people die. But for us, going and engaging such players is not what we want to do. If people are individually foolish enough to try an do things in HS during a war dec that is not the alliance or the corporations concern.


So your words are hollow, you are no longer a null sec alliance, you are skulking in lowsec, you lose more ships then for example hisec corps or alliances and yet you just ignore it and don't even fight back and you have the cheek to tell people in hisec to fight them and its easy. All mouth and no trousers...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#432 - 2016-07-15 07:01:01 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Was there a point to this non-sequitur?

Quote:
My suggestion was to create a point of weakness for the war dec entities that gives them back functionality that they have lost with the object of giving those weaker people something they can have some success with, and something that could cause them to grow better and take the fight in more fun for both sides way. Hisec war decs on hisec entities what there is of them is akin to baby seal clubbing. I am not suggesting this to have the ability to win, I am suggesting this to have a possibility to resist.


I don't think you are going to achieve that goal because the problem is not mechanics, but attitudes. A guy who simply logs in to run missions or mine or both is a guy who has zero interest in PvP. He won't even know the mechanics and has zero interest in learning the mechanics.


Well having been involved with AG I can also point out that this is bull, there is not a huge number granted, but there are more than you certainly know.


AG is not the same as war decs. The ganking fleet is not going to engage you. You are not flashy red to them, so it is a Bravo Sierra comparison.

Let me be clear, AG basically hide behind CONCORD's skirts. If it were the case that you AG guys got together and formed an actual corporation maybe even an alliance and war decced CODE. and tried to engage them you might have something. Instead you guys sit around and either rep a guy getting ganked, try to counter bump, or wait for the gankers to go flashy red and shoot them before CONCORD finishes them off.

Yeah, those guys are going to fight a war dec. GMAFB.


As I said you know nothing about AG.

I never said AG was anything to do with war decs, I was talking about the attitude of some of the people in there.

Again you show the ignorance of your posting, why war dec CODE when they are -10, are you stupid?

Some of those players actually do fight war decs, there are some that ally with defenders in wars all the time and are damn good at it.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#433 - 2016-07-15 07:03:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Dracvlad wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Black Pedro wrote:
Why should the target always have a chance to fight back?.


Think about that question...


Okay, I have, so?

This e-bushido nonsense is just that, nonsense.


Your comment is nonsense..., no one except for you is talking about e-bushido, crawl back to your hole of incompetence in EXE.


If a guy decides to overload his freighter, set destination, undock and click autopilot...does he deserve a chance to fight back? He has made several serious mistakes. He was stupid. Blindingly stupid. This is game where your actions have consequences, and if one is blindingly stupid one does not have a right to fight back. Being imprudent in this game often comes with a substantial cost.

Same thing goes when players would blind jump their carrier to a cyno beacon without first checking out the system. If a player does that and is tackled and a group drops on him and obliterates his carrier...well, he was dumb. Having no chance to fight back in any meaningful sense is something I don't see a problem with. He was dumb.

If you undock in a mission boat and start running missions during an active war dec and get caught in a fit designed to tank a specific type of rat...well you were imprudent and if you have no chance to fight back in a meaningful way that is a result of choices that were made after being warned you in an war with another corporation.

No, not everyone should have a chance to fight back.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#434 - 2016-07-15 07:05:45 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Was there a point to this non-sequitur?

Quote:
My suggestion was to create a point of weakness for the war dec entities that gives them back functionality that they have lost with the object of giving those weaker people something they can have some success with, and something that could cause them to grow better and take the fight in more fun for both sides way. Hisec war decs on hisec entities what there is of them is akin to baby seal clubbing. I am not suggesting this to have the ability to win, I am suggesting this to have a possibility to resist.


I don't think you are going to achieve that goal because the problem is not mechanics, but attitudes. A guy who simply logs in to run missions or mine or both is a guy who has zero interest in PvP. He won't even know the mechanics and has zero interest in learning the mechanics.


Well having been involved with AG I can also point out that this is bull, there is not a huge number granted, but there are more than you certainly know.


AG is not the same as war decs. The ganking fleet is not going to engage you. You are not flashy red to them, so it is a Bravo Sierra comparison.

Let me be clear, AG basically hide behind CONCORD's skirts. If it were the case that you AG guys got together and formed an actual corporation maybe even an alliance and war decced CODE. and tried to engage them you might have something. Instead you guys sit around and either rep a guy getting ganked, try to counter bump, or wait for the gankers to go flashy red and shoot them before CONCORD finishes them off.

Yeah, those guys are going to fight a war dec. GMAFB.


As I said you know nothing about AG.

I never said AG was anything to do with war decs, I was talking about the attitude of some of the people in there.

Again you show the ignorance of your posting, why war dec CODE when they are -10, are you stupid?

Some of those players actually do fight war decs, there are some that ally with defenders in wars all the time and are damn good at it.


The comparison is just not there. Guys who are hiding behind CONCORD while running around is not at all the same as guys in an active war dec where CONCORD is not an issue.

Maybe some people are teaming up and going after these war dec corps...but I seriously doubt it. Maybe if you had some examples of it actually happening.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#435 - 2016-07-15 07:08:02 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:


So your words are hollow, you are no longer a null sec alliance, you are skulking in lowsec, you lose more ships then for example hisec corps or alliances and yet you just ignore it and don't even fight back and you have the cheek to tell people in hisec to fight them and its easy. All mouth and no trousers...


What? Whatever....talk about a non-sequitur, that seems to be your specialty.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#436 - 2016-07-15 07:09:16 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Black Pedro wrote:
Why should the target always have a chance to fight back?.


Think about that question...


Okay, I have, so?

This e-bushido nonsense is just that, nonsense.


Your comment is nonsense..., no one except for you is talking about e-bushido, crawl back to your hole of incompetence in EXE.


If a guy decides to overload his freighter, set destination, undock and click autopilot...does he deserve a chance to fight back? He has made several serious mistakes. He was stupid. Blindingly stupid. This is game were you actions have consequences, and if one is blindingly stupid one does not have a right to fight back. Being imprudent in this game often comes with a substantial cost.

Same thing goes when players would blind jump their carrier to a cyno beacon without first checking out the system. If a player does that and is tackled and a group drops on him and obliterates his carrier...well, he was dumb. Having no chance to fight back in any meaningful sense is something I don't see a problem with. He was dumb.

If you undock in a mission boat and start running missions during an active war dec and get caught in a fit designed to tank a specific type of rat...well you were imprudent and if you have no chance to fight back in a meaningful way that is a result of choices that were made after being warned you in an war with another corporation.

No, not everyone should have a chance to fight back.


Consequences like bumping has consequences.

Where not were...

Moved on from e-bushido then, lol

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#437 - 2016-07-15 07:10:59 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


So your words are hollow, you are no longer a null sec alliance, you are skulking in lowsec, you lose more ships then for example hisec corps or alliances and yet you just ignore it and don't even fight back and you have the cheek to tell people in hisec to fight them and its easy. All mouth and no trousers...


What? Whatever....talk about a non-sequitur, that seems to be your specialty.


So you give advice that you do not follow yourself, simple stuff really.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#438 - 2016-07-15 07:14:34 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


So your words are hollow, you are no longer a null sec alliance, you are skulking in lowsec, you lose more ships then for example hisec corps or alliances and yet you just ignore it and don't even fight back and you have the cheek to tell people in hisec to fight them and its easy. All mouth and no trousers...


What? Whatever....talk about a non-sequitur, that seems to be your specialty.


So you give advice that you do not follow yourself, simple stuff really.


I am not the alliance leader, nor the corp CEO and I have little interest in hunting down war targets. So, no I am not about to go chasing war targets currently.

However, when I did have an industrial/mission running character in a HS corp that advice I gave is exactly what we did.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#439 - 2016-07-15 07:24:13 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:


Consequences like bumping has consequences.

Where not were...

Moved on from e-bushido then, lol


Good God, you are going to try an make something out of typos? Roll

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#440 - 2016-07-15 07:25:21 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
The comparison is just not there. Guys who are hiding behind CONCORD while running around is not at all the same as guys in an active war dec where CONCORD is not an issue.

Maybe some people are teaming up and going after these war dec corps...but I seriously doubt it. Maybe if you had some examples of it actually happening.


You are making the comparisonnot me, all I said is that there are people in AG who have that attitude, you have decided to go into a rant about AG which is about your level.

The bumpers hide behind CONCORD, also once we engage them and we do we have a limited engagement, often we shoot them before they go criminal, so again you are wrong, you do not understand hisec mechanics.

I will give you a clue, one of them also ganks bumper Macherials...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp