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[ARC] Galactic Defense, or; DED financing combat against Drifters
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Alizabeth Vea
Doomheim
#21 - 2016-07-13 08:04:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Alizabeth Vea
Jaret Victorian wrote:
Properly trained, equipped and led. Following an offering from what is essentially a gamification system to turn peoples' lives into imaginary points for a reward is nonsense.

And we both know that there will be pilots who will do that. Wrapping it into a "Honor The Empress" blanket is sickening. There are better ways to honor a memory than adding to a death count.

The Drifters attacked Holy Amarr. They attacked and murdered Empress Jamyl. And you want to lecture us on what is the best way to honor the memory of someone? How many Caldari died for their homeworld? How much blood has been spilled because of the promise that 'we will return?'
The Amarr Empire remains in a declared war against the Drifters. Like the CEMWPA, in order to entice PMC capsuleers to fight the Drifters, the Empire is essentially hiring them, much like LP and ISK to the militia.
I have fought and will continue to fight the Drifters until they are all dead. Their ships destroyed. Their Hives burned to ash.
I don't give a damn about points or other incentives, but if it gets more pilots in fleets, then I am all for it.

As far as ARC operations against the Drifters go: the FC team is committed to creating, attempting, and refining methods to fight the Drifters with as few losses as possible. Nothing is stagnant. Nearly every operation includes one or two ships, or a new tactic, for testing.
Some of my ideas might be hairbrained, but they all have a solid basis for the belief they will succeed. Unfortunately, the enemy gets a say so in our battleplans.
My hope is that we will find an economically viable doctrine to kill Drifters with no losses. I could, tomorrow, bring ships that would for certain survive a superweapon hit. However, the cost would make them an incredibly attractive target to other capsuleers, and put them at more of a risk than just from the Drifters. That said, this is a war, and wars cost lives. I don't intend to waste lives, but I will spend them in defense of the Empire.

Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum.

"Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I

Virtue. Valor. Victory.
Jaret Victorian
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#22 - 2016-07-13 11:50:55 UTC
Do I look like I support the Gallente-Caldari conflict?

You know who else died, besides a ruler? Don't you dare lecture me on that, Alizabeth. You don't see me rave over him and others.

I am well aware of what we work on, I am saying that putting an "Honor" wrapped offer before unprepared and uneducated pilots who have more money than common sense contradicts what we spent more than a year working on. I would be less concerned with this if there was an instruction on how do such an impossible feat in a day.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Follow us on GalNet!
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#23 - 2016-07-13 15:53:56 UTC
Morwen Lagann wrote:
Except, speaking as a veteran of both activities (I really hesitate to call either of them an occupation), the two are wholly different beasts.

Against Kuvakei's forces, if you screw up, with very few exceptions, you will usually have a safety net in the form of your logistics wing.

Against Drifters, it is the exact opposite when their superweapon comes into play. At that point, it doesn't matter how big your logistics wing is; if the discharge from one of them hits you, outside of a few very specific, very un-economically viable circumstances, you are going to be violently separated from your ship and its crew in short order.

The best way to not lose a ship to Drifters is, quite simply, to avoid being hit by that discharge. The methods involved in doing so are not viable below a certain number of pilots - and on top of that, they generally require careful coordination and piloting, neither of which seem a particularly common resource. The slightest mistake can and will result in the loss of someone's ship and crew.

It also means flying ships that are cruiser-sized and smaller - which unfortunately restricts your options quite heavily, because if you go too small you simply don't have enough in the way of defenses to survive the Drifters' main guns on approach - which is why there's a minimum number of pilots required to actually do something. And if you go too big, well...

Let's just say that Drifters are already fairly adept at hitting small moving targets. They don't need you to help them out by flying something with the signature of a Splinterz stadium.

We're not suggesting in the slightest that we've seen all there is to see. Just stating that, at present, with what we have seen thus far, we're about as refined as we're going to get barring some changes in technology.

We have some things that we're fiddling with and going to test tomorrow. You're more than welcome to tag along if you'd like, and see things first-hand.


That's a wonderful offer - I hope it was meant sincerely because I'd love to take you up on it, duties permitting.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#24 - 2016-07-13 16:46:29 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
That's a wonderful offer - I hope it was meant sincerely because I'd love to take you up on it, duties permitting.


The fleets are more or less public, Pieter.

So, yeah, I kind of think you'd be welcome. Probably so would PY-RE generally, if you wanted to see what we're doing, for yourselves.

Also, why.

Ali fights for the Empire, and I serve Directrix Daphiti, whose loyalty is with the Empire, so there's that, but, even if I didn't ... I kind of think I might be involved here anyway.

There are some things a static image just doesn't convey very well.
Alizabeth Vea
Doomheim
#25 - 2016-07-13 16:46:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Alizabeth Vea
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:

That's a wonderful offer - I hope it was meant sincerely because I'd love to take you up on it, duties permitting.


0200 tomorrow morning. Or late tonight depending on your frame of reference. Formup is Amarr. I look forward to seeing you in fleet.

Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum.

"Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I

Virtue. Valor. Victory.
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#26 - 2016-07-13 18:00:52 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
That's a wonderful offer - I hope it was meant sincerely because I'd love to take you up on it, duties permitting.

Why wouldn't it be?

I will not be in fleet tonight myself as I need the rest after last weekend, but at least one of my pilots will be flying in my stead. I will be listening in on comms and following her camera drone feed, however.

Morwen Lagann

CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar

Coordinator, Arataka Research Consortium

Owner, The Golden Masque
Lunarisse Aspenstar
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#27 - 2016-07-13 18:03:10 UTC
Alizabeth Vea wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:

That's a wonderful offer - I hope it was meant sincerely because I'd love to take you up on it, duties permitting.


0200 tomorrow morning. Or late tonight depending on your frame of reference. Formup is Amarr. I look forward to seeing you in fleet.


I likewise look forward to seeing you in fleet, Mr. Tuulinen if your schedule permits!
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#28 - 2016-07-13 18:33:43 UTC
It would be nice to see you all again. I'll definitely see if I can manage to make my schedule accommodate this.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Evi Polevhia
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#29 - 2016-07-13 19:27:44 UTC
Get back in that salt mine, Pieter.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#30 - 2016-07-13 20:57:46 UTC
You're not my supervisor.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Alizabeth Vea
Doomheim
#31 - 2016-07-14 06:33:36 UTC
It was good to fly with you, Tuulinen-haan.

Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum.

"Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I

Virtue. Valor. Victory.
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#32 - 2016-07-14 07:18:31 UTC
Glad you could make the fleet, Tuulinen-haan. I hope the experience was educational. A shame I couldn't make it myself, but this Saisio vineyard project remains, well, time-consuming.

That said, Ms. Vea, Jaret, I appreciate the enthusiasm and dedication you both bring to your philosophies. I would perhaps ask that this enthusiasm be focused more on finding mutually-agreeable solutions to apparent problems, as we all know that's achievable. Far too many capsuleers tend to polemics unnecessarily; let's not be counted among them.

Similarly, Coordinator Lagann, Tuulinen-haan, it looks like you've patched up your initial disagreement. I'm glad to see that. To explain, Pieter, we often get fresh-faced pilots who run through a gamut of questions and suggestions about how we undertake operations, almost as a sort of cadence. It can, unfortunately, be tiresome to repeat the same answers frequently, especially when the answers are also present in some of our public documents. Still, so it goes.

In any case, come what may, we'll adapt and disseminate information as we're able.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
Alizabeth Vea
Doomheim
#33 - 2016-07-14 08:16:52 UTC
I do not mean to come across as attacking anyone, Ms. Priano. I will simply state that the Empire is engaged in a war and in defense of our home. I live on Mekhios. My children live on Mekhios. Millions of Imperial subjects were killed in the Drifter attacks. Not just the attacks in Safizon or Sarum Prime, but on stations and in space all throughout the Empire.
If Empress Jamyl's death provides a rallying point for our cause (like she did for the Empire post Elder fleet) then I am all for it. If sending out twenty thousand capsuleers and their crews to get killed brings back one useful result on keeping my home safe, I count that a small price to pay compared to the losses we have already suffered.

I should further note that the likely reason that the Empire has put forth this incentive is that the Navy might not know how to kill Drifters and hope that the massed efforts of capsuleers will generate results. Dogma Project's methods are still classified. The PNS methods are still classified. Most of ARC's internal discussion is classified. I would like to give a full briefing to Admiral Karetta, but my integrity prevents me from doing so. Until then, I will support the Navy however I can to keep my home safe.

As far as solutions go, our latest doctrine test proved incredibly promising. Frankly, I am amazed at the results and look forward to our next op. With the correct refinement, I think that a zero loss Hive Operation is achievable on a consistent basis. Now that's something I think we all can get behind.

Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum.

"Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I

Virtue. Valor. Victory.
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#34 - 2016-07-14 09:37:52 UTC
Alizabeth Vea wrote:
I should further note that the likely reason that the Empire has put forth this incentive is that the Navy might not know how to kill Drifters and hope that the massed efforts of capsuleers will generate results. Dogma Project's methods are still classified. The PNS methods are still classified. Most of ARC's internal discussion is classified. I would like to give a full briefing to Admiral Karetta, but my integrity prevents me from doing so. Until then, I will support the Navy however I can to keep my home safe.

Back in March, when I put out the release regarding our contributions to the Defense of the Throne Worlds campaign, I also forwarded copies to a number of officials that included Grand Admiral Karetta. Each was informed in an accompanying message, that if they desired more detail than was provided to the public at the time via that release, that they only needed to let me know.

Not one of them has responded thus far, let alone to request further details. Not so much as a single "thank you" for any of it.

Now, just to be clear, I'm neither particularly bothered or surprised by the lack of response. Nor, for what it's worth, do I think it is a case of them not caring. If they feel they do not need (or perhaps do not want) the information, that is their prerogative and decision, and frankly we should respect that.

If they want the information, they will let us know.

Morwen Lagann

CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar

Coordinator, Arataka Research Consortium

Owner, The Golden Masque
Alizabeth Vea
Doomheim
#35 - 2016-07-14 09:41:44 UTC
Well, I stand corrected on that front. Thank you for that update.

Retainer of Lady Newelle and House Sarum.

"Those who step into the light shall be redeemed, the sins of their past cleansed, so that they may know salvation." -Empress Jamyl Sarum I

Virtue. Valor. Victory.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#36 - 2016-07-14 14:43:49 UTC
Makoto Priano wrote:
Similarly, Coordinator Lagann, Tuulinen-haan, it looks like you've patched up your initial disagreement. I'm glad to see that. To explain, Pieter, we often get fresh-faced pilots who run through a gamut of questions and suggestions about how we undertake operations, almost as a sort of cadence. It can, unfortunately, be tiresome to repeat the same answers frequently, especially when the answers are also present in some of our public documents. Still, so it goes.

In any case, come what may, we'll adapt and disseminate information as we're able.



I wouldn't read anything into our disagreement, Priano-haani. Morwen has been treating me like an affable idiot since we met, a couple of years ago. Truth be told, I enjoy tweaking her nose from time to time. Doesn't mean I don't respect her hugely.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#37 - 2016-07-14 14:46:50 UTC
Alizabeth Vea wrote:
It was good to fly with you, Tuulinen-haan.


It was good to fly under your leadership Ms Vea. It was also instructional - Drifters seem to be, basically, Sleepers with the creepy / threat turned up to full. Swatting them was a worthwhile endeavour.

I wish I could say that we left the Cluster a neater place than we found it - but that installation isn't going anywhere.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
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