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AFK Cloaking™: Ideas, Discussion, and Proposals

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Maria Dragoon
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6301 - 2016-07-11 21:58:14 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:

I found it very amusing that someone said in an AFK claoking thread that he would AFK cloaky camp Jita, it was so stupid that I like to mention it every so often.

They are going to do that, they are hardly going to supply the data free to you are they, as it is not free intel, they worked for it. I reckon you are going to really hate it.



Actually lets just roll with this. Seeing the upper half has nothing to do with cloaking, or afk cloaking at all, I have simply deleted it.

You find it very amusing that someone said that they were going to AFK cloaky camp in Jita, and you found it stupid, right? Right

Why did you find it stupid? What is the mechanical differences between Jita, and null sec

Well if we continue on this line of though, the three major differences between high and null sec (If we ignore concord) is the ability hold onto that space as an alliance, the ability to pop warp bubbles, and the ability to open up a cyno field.

So by saying this, is you find it abusing that it not actually Cloaking problem, it is infact.... Either the ability to hold space, the ability to pop warp bubbles, or the ability to open a cyno field, or a combination of all three.

So my Friend, what you are saying it not actually cloak that the problem, it actually one of the describe mechanics above! Cyno, Warp bubbles or Sov space!

A ******* REVELATION RIGHT HERE BABY.


In all seriousness though, back to your second point, they arn't going to make local a defender only mechanic if they keep it current iteration of it. If they do make it a defender only tool, then they will give the "attacker" a tool to **** with it that outside just destroying it.

Who wants to see 100 neuts in system made of randomly generating names!? I DO! :D

The fact that you believe it will be a defender only tool is actually kind of amusing, and just shows how silly you are.

Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. Confucius

"A man who talks to people who aren't real is crazy. A man who talks to people who aren't real and writes down what they say is an author."
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#6302 - 2016-07-11 23:36:56 UTC
Let me put my objection forth again.

This is a sand box game. This is a game with simple rules and entities interacting and creating more complex outcomes.

As such, the game should not (or as infrequently as possible) do for the player, what the player can do for himself.

Local hands out intel on a silver platter and that is not good, IMO. Replacing it with something that you anchor that can hand out intel not only to you, but others is almost as bad.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Sitting Bull Lakota
Poppins and Company
#6303 - 2016-07-14 08:51:12 UTC
Maria Dragoon wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:

I found it very amusing that someone said in an AFK claoking thread that he would AFK cloaky camp Jita, it was so stupid that I like to mention it every so often.
Actually lets just roll with this. Seeing the upper half has nothing to do with cloaking, or afk cloaking at all, I have simply deleted it.

You find it very amusing that someone said that they were going to AFK cloaky camp in Jita, and you found it stupid, right? Right

Why did you find it stupid?(Concord.) What is the mechanical differences between Jita, and null sec (Concord.)

Well if we continue on this line of thought, the three major differences between high and null sec (If we ignore concord (but we really shouldn't)) is the ability hold onto that space as an alliance, the ability to pop warp bubbles, and the ability to open up a cyno field. (Concord is the defining difference between high and the rest of eve)

So by saying this, you find it amusing that it is not actually a Cloaking problem (in jita with concord), it is infact.... Either (Concord.) the ability to hold space (Concord.), the ability to pop warp bubbles (Concord.), or the ability to open a cyno field, (Concord.) or a combination of all three. (but probably Concord)

So my Friend, what you are saying it not actually cloak that the problem, it actually one of the describe mechanics above (definately Concord)! Cyno, Warp bubbles or Sov space! (again, probably concord)

A ******* REVELATION RIGHT HERE BABY.
(that Concord stops any neutral, cloaked or not, from being a substantial threat)

I don't think you gave Concord enough credit.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#6304 - 2016-07-14 08:55:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Maria Dragoon wrote:


The fact that you believe it will be a defender only tool is actually kind of amusing, and just shows how silly you are.


Ignored the rest of that rant, but you did actually get a glimmer of understanding there. Twisted

Did I say it was a defender only tool, very fail attempt, you can put one in there too and then you have local, see you are warming to it... Big smile

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#6305 - 2016-07-14 08:57:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Teckos Pech wrote:
Let me put my objection forth again.

This is a sand box game. This is a game with simple rules and entities interacting and creating more complex outcomes.

As such, the game should not (or as infrequently as possible) do for the player, what the player can do for himself.

Local hands out intel on a silver platter and that is not good, IMO. Replacing it with something that you anchor that can hand out intel not only to you, but others is almost as bad.


The map hands out intel on a silver platter too, have you asked for that to be removed?

And changing it to something that needs to be defended fits in with the ethos of Eve, if you have something of value you need to defend it.

The issue is the AFK part, always...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#6306 - 2016-07-14 18:13:48 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
The map hands out intel on a silver platter too, have you asked for that to be removed?

And changing it to something that needs to be defended fits in with the ethos of Eve, if you have something of value you need to defend it.

The issue is the AFK part, always...


Someone AFK by definition can't do anything to you. Why is it a big deal?
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#6307 - 2016-07-14 21:20:09 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Let me put my objection forth again.

This is a sand box game. This is a game with simple rules and entities interacting and creating more complex outcomes.

As such, the game should not (or as infrequently as possible) do for the player, what the player can do for himself.

Local hands out intel on a silver platter and that is not good, IMO. Replacing it with something that you anchor that can hand out intel not only to you, but others is almost as bad.


The map hands out intel on a silver platter too, have you asked for that to be removed?

And changing it to something that needs to be defended fits in with the ethos of Eve, if you have something of value you need to defend it.

The issue is the AFK part, always...


Yes, I have said that I think the intel the map hands out should be removed and/or changed.

Having the structure allow for scanning of cloaked ships also gets rid of AFK cloaking and requires player effort.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#6308 - 2016-07-14 21:33:15 UTC
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
The map hands out intel on a silver platter too, have you asked for that to be removed?

And changing it to something that needs to be defended fits in with the ethos of Eve, if you have something of value you need to defend it.

The issue is the AFK part, always...


Someone AFK by definition can't do anything to you. Why is it a big deal?


That old chestnut dealt with me multiple times above, I do not like the fact that the person logged in cannot be baited and I am wasting my time trying to bait him to attack when he is not even at his keyboard, because he is shagging his wife, asleep or at work, it is poor gameplay to bait someone who is not even there. So why should I have to waste my time baiting someone who is not even at their keyboard, is it because it is Eve and you don't have fun in Eve?

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#6309 - 2016-07-14 21:46:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Sonya Corvinus
Dracvlad wrote:
That old chestnut dealt with me multiple times above, I do not like the fact that the person logged in cannot be baited and I am wasting my time trying to bait him to attack when he is not even at his keyboard, because he is shagging his wife, asleep or at work, it is poor gameplay to bait someone who is not even there. So why should I have to waste my time baiting someone who is not even at their keyboard, is it because it is Eve and you don't have fun in Eve?


To be blunt, so what?

You aren't a special snowflake who gets to bait people who aren't playing the game. Do you also call for game changes when you can't catch someone in a faster ship than you, or when you can't get someone to undock from a station/citadel?

Have you EVER PvPed in this game? 99% of the time it's an hour of waiting/scouting for a single fight. Is your entire point literally "come on guys, I want to force someone AFK to fight me!!!" You want quick easy fights? Grab a frig and go to LS where AFK cloaking doesn't exist, or go play another MMO that has arenas.

And I apologize if that's been hashed out before, but there's absolutely no way I'm going to read 300+ pages of a thread to get caught up.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#6310 - 2016-07-14 22:32:34 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
The map hands out intel on a silver platter too, have you asked for that to be removed?

And changing it to something that needs to be defended fits in with the ethos of Eve, if you have something of value you need to defend it.

The issue is the AFK part, always...


Someone AFK by definition can't do anything to you. Why is it a big deal?


That old chestnut dealt with me multiple times above, I do not like the fact that the person logged in cannot be baited and I am wasting my time trying to bait him to attack when he is not even at his keyboard, because he is shagging his wife, asleep or at work, it is poor gameplay to bait someone who is not even there. So why should I have to waste my time baiting someone who is not even at their keyboard, is it because it is Eve and you don't have fun in Eve?


I don't see how you have "dealt with this chestnut" with any reply. If you cannot bait them and kill them....they still can't do anything to you.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#6311 - 2016-07-14 22:37:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Sonya Corvinus wrote:


And I apologize if that's been hashed out before, but there's absolutely no way I'm going to read 300+ pages of a thread to get caught up.


Don't feel bad neither has Dracvald which is why he thought bringing up the free intel the map provides would trip me up. And just to nip this one in the bud...not in favor of Dotlan handing out free intel either.

What is tiresome though are the anti-cloakers who come in and don't even read the first page that lists all the horrible ideas on how to break...errr fix cloaks.

My personal view is things like local, the map, and dotlan should be modified so that players maybe able to get some of that information ONLY via expending effort.

Edit: IF? Sheesh...

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#6312 - 2016-07-15 05:43:52 UTC
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
That old chestnut dealt with me multiple times above, I do not like the fact that the person logged in cannot be baited and I am wasting my time trying to bait him to attack when he is not even at his keyboard, because he is shagging his wife, asleep or at work, it is poor gameplay to bait someone who is not even there. So why should I have to waste my time baiting someone who is not even at their keyboard, is it because it is Eve and you don't have fun in Eve?


To be blunt, so what?

You aren't a special snowflake who gets to bait people who aren't playing the game. Do you also call for game changes when you can't catch someone in a faster ship than you, or when you can't get someone to undock from a station/citadel?

Have you EVER PvPed in this game? 99% of the time it's an hour of waiting/scouting for a single fight. Is your entire point literally "come on guys, I want to force someone AFK to fight me!!!" You want quick easy fights? Grab a frig and go to LS where AFK cloaking doesn't exist, or go play another MMO that has arenas.

And I apologize if that's been hashed out before, but there's absolutely no way I'm going to read 300+ pages of a thread to get caught up.


How do I know that I am wasting my time, with skill injectors enabling clean characters and the removal of the watch list. Its losers like you who make announcements without reading the thread then say have you played this game, I have killed a lot of campers.

I repeat, my issue is that I cannot bait someone who is not at his keyboard, I should not have to waste my time trying to interact with someone not at the keyboard, is that so difficult for your brain to get.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#6313 - 2016-07-15 06:42:52 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
That old chestnut dealt with me multiple times above, I do not like the fact that the person logged in cannot be baited and I am wasting my time trying to bait him to attack when he is not even at his keyboard, because he is shagging his wife, asleep or at work, it is poor gameplay to bait someone who is not even there. So why should I have to waste my time baiting someone who is not even at their keyboard, is it because it is Eve and you don't have fun in Eve?


To be blunt, so what?

You aren't a special snowflake who gets to bait people who aren't playing the game. Do you also call for game changes when you can't catch someone in a faster ship than you, or when you can't get someone to undock from a station/citadel?

Have you EVER PvPed in this game? 99% of the time it's an hour of waiting/scouting for a single fight. Is your entire point literally "come on guys, I want to force someone AFK to fight me!!!" You want quick easy fights? Grab a frig and go to LS where AFK cloaking doesn't exist, or go play another MMO that has arenas.

And I apologize if that's been hashed out before, but there's absolutely no way I'm going to read 300+ pages of a thread to get caught up.


How do I know that I am wasting my time, with skill injectors enabling clean characters and the removal of the watch list. Its losers like you who make announcements without reading the thread then say have you played this game, I have killed a lot of campers.

I repeat, my issue is that I cannot bait someone who is not at his keyboard, I should not have to waste my time trying to interact with someone not at the keyboard, is that so difficult for your brain to get.


But you interact with people not at their keyboard all the time.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#6314 - 2016-07-15 08:48:23 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
That old chestnut dealt with me multiple times above, I do not like the fact that the person logged in cannot be baited and I am wasting my time trying to bait him to attack when he is not even at his keyboard, because he is shagging his wife, asleep or at work, it is poor gameplay to bait someone who is not even there. So why should I have to waste my time baiting someone who is not even at their keyboard, is it because it is Eve and you don't have fun in Eve?


To be blunt, so what?

You aren't a special snowflake who gets to bait people who aren't playing the game. Do you also call for game changes when you can't catch someone in a faster ship than you, or when you can't get someone to undock from a station/citadel?

Have you EVER PvPed in this game? 99% of the time it's an hour of waiting/scouting for a single fight. Is your entire point literally "come on guys, I want to force someone AFK to fight me!!!" You want quick easy fights? Grab a frig and go to LS where AFK cloaking doesn't exist, or go play another MMO that has arenas.

And I apologize if that's been hashed out before, but there's absolutely no way I'm going to read 300+ pages of a thread to get caught up.


How do I know that I am wasting my time, with skill injectors enabling clean characters and the removal of the watch list. Its losers like you who make announcements without reading the thread then say have you played this game, I have killed a lot of campers.

I repeat, my issue is that I cannot bait someone who is not at his keyboard, I should not have to waste my time trying to interact with someone not at the keyboard, is that so difficult for your brain to get.


But you interact with people not at their keyboard all the time.


In PvP? In terms of making pixels blow up....

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#6315 - 2016-07-15 13:50:32 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
How do I know that I am wasting my time, with skill injectors enabling clean characters and the removal of the watch list. Its losers like you who make announcements without reading the thread then say have you played this game, I have killed a lot of campers.

I repeat, my issue is that I cannot bait someone who is not at his keyboard, I should not have to waste my time trying to interact with someone not at the keyboard, is that so difficult for your brain to get.


and again, so what? Harden up champ.

and here's a hint for you, coming out of the starting gate calling someone a loser, then going on to whine that it isn't easier for you to hunt makes you sound like a whiny 12 year old, and means you will be treated as such.
Lucien Visteen
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#6316 - 2016-07-15 16:51:48 UTC
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Someone AFK by definition can't do anything to you. Why is it a big deal?
There is a few underlying factors that contributes to the end result, but the quote below is one reason why it is a big deal
Swamp Donkee wrote:
There is no other better feeling in the world than dropping 2 AFK cloakers in a level 5 industry system in null while you go to work for about a week straight. Then watch that index FALL.
This player, by definition, did nothing, got something and hurt someone else.

If the system owners could leave someone AFK in space aswell and negate that effect, I suspect that many more would be fine with it.

It would still lead to a stalemate but not percieved as an unfair one.

The ships hung in the sky in much the same way that bricks don't.
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#6317 - 2016-07-15 17:11:49 UTC
Lucien Visteen wrote:
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Someone AFK by definition can't do anything to you. Why is it a big deal?
There is a few underlying factors that contributes to the end result, but the quote below is one reason why it is a big deal
Swamp Donkee wrote:
There is no other better feeling in the world than dropping 2 AFK cloakers in a level 5 industry system in null while you go to work for about a week straight. Then watch that index FALL.
This player, by definition, did nothing, got something and hurt someone else.

If the system owners could leave someone AFK in space aswell and negate that effect, I suspect that many more would be fine with it.

It would still lead to a stalemate but not percieved as an unfair one.


But someone AFK can't do anything. No one AFK cloaked poses any risk to anyone.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#6318 - 2016-07-15 17:52:38 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
That old chestnut dealt with me multiple times above, I do not like the fact that the person logged in cannot be baited and I am wasting my time trying to bait him to attack when he is not even at his keyboard, because he is shagging his wife, asleep or at work, it is poor gameplay to bait someone who is not even there. So why should I have to waste my time baiting someone who is not even at their keyboard, is it because it is Eve and you don't have fun in Eve?


To be blunt, so what?

You aren't a special snowflake who gets to bait people who aren't playing the game. Do you also call for game changes when you can't catch someone in a faster ship than you, or when you can't get someone to undock from a station/citadel?

Have you EVER PvPed in this game? 99% of the time it's an hour of waiting/scouting for a single fight. Is your entire point literally "come on guys, I want to force someone AFK to fight me!!!" You want quick easy fights? Grab a frig and go to LS where AFK cloaking doesn't exist, or go play another MMO that has arenas.

And I apologize if that's been hashed out before, but there's absolutely no way I'm going to read 300+ pages of a thread to get caught up.


How do I know that I am wasting my time, with skill injectors enabling clean characters and the removal of the watch list. Its losers like you who make announcements without reading the thread then say have you played this game, I have killed a lot of campers.

I repeat, my issue is that I cannot bait someone who is not at his keyboard, I should not have to waste my time trying to interact with someone not at the keyboard, is that so difficult for your brain to get.


But you interact with people not at their keyboard all the time.


In PvP? In terms of making pixels blow up....


Yes in terms of PvP and no not in terms of making things blow up....at least not directly. The simple fact is that people who are AFK have a very significant impact on the game. Enormous in fact.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#6319 - 2016-07-15 17:54:10 UTC
Lucien Visteen wrote:
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Someone AFK by definition can't do anything to you. Why is it a big deal?
There is a few underlying factors that contributes to the end result, but the quote below is one reason why it is a big deal
Swamp Donkee wrote:
There is no other better feeling in the world than dropping 2 AFK cloakers in a level 5 industry system in null while you go to work for about a week straight. Then watch that index FALL.
This player, by definition, did nothing, got something and hurt someone else.

If the system owners could leave someone AFK in space aswell and negate that effect, I suspect that many more would be fine with it.

It would still lead to a stalemate but not percieved as an unfair one.


You want to know where AFK has the biggest impact on the game? Bet you can't guess.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#6320 - 2016-07-15 17:57:08 UTC
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
How do I know that I am wasting my time, with skill injectors enabling clean characters and the removal of the watch list. Its losers like you who make announcements without reading the thread then say have you played this game, I have killed a lot of campers.

I repeat, my issue is that I cannot bait someone who is not at his keyboard, I should not have to waste my time trying to interact with someone not at the keyboard, is that so difficult for your brain to get.


and again, so what? Harden up champ.

and here's a hint for you, coming out of the starting gate calling someone a loser, then going on to whine that it isn't easier for you to hunt makes you sound like a whiny 12 year old, and means you will be treated as such.


Much butthurt from you, I am already hard enough, I don't die easy and I blow up stuff when I can be bothered to do so. I called you a loser because you jumped in and made crass comments without reading anything, you are a loser. Live with it.

I am not moaning about making it easier, I am merely calling for an AFK flag so I do not waste my time baiting someone who is not at his keyboard. Do keep up, over to you loser...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp