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Biochemical Reactors in High Sec

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Temba Mapindazi
#1 - 2016-07-01 18:08:46 UTC
Now that drug boosters are no longer illegal isn't it time their production was made possible in High Sec Empire space?

As a manufacturer I would like to get the means of production closer to my client base.

Can anyone on the CSM propose this change to CCP?

It should not require a great deal of work or coding to implement. It would mean a great deal to my bottom line in terms of profitability for continued drug production.

A combat pilot must have two goals to survive,  #1 get the first shot in every fight , #2 get the last shot in every fight!
Cyrus Arrat
NeoHazard
#2 - 2016-07-03 01:32:50 UTC
The same patch should also include the ability to sell the drugs to CONCORD, so i dont need to risk interaction with other players when i am selling the product.
The Judge
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3 - 2016-07-03 12:05:03 UTC  |  Edited by: The Judge
Link: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6521339#post6521339

CSM XII Member and CSM XI Permanent Attendee

Diplomat for Circle-Of-Two

@_TheJudge on Twitter

thejudge@csm.eve.com
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#4 - 2016-07-03 15:19:59 UTC
No, this would not be desirable. It is an important industry advantages that lower security spaces possess over highsec.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#5 - 2016-07-03 15:37:47 UTC
I agree with Zappity on this.

And it's covered in the forum post about the change. The only Corp with a license to do it (iirc) is X-Sense

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
SynthesisX
#6 - 2016-07-12 08:06:33 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
I agree with Zappity on this.

And it's covered in the forum post about the change. The only Corp with a license to do it (iirc) is X-Sense

Steve? Really? Add up all the advantages lower security space has over high sec. Capital ships, cyno jumps, sov, jump bridges, moon mining, no annoying Concord, stealth bombing, infrastructure upgrading, the list goes on and on.

Drug manufacturing in only low sec/ null sec restricts high sec pilots who roam in Anoikis and into lower security space from using their skills to produce legal products closer to their now expanding customer base.

To say lower security space needs to continue this monopoly has no basis in unbiased facts.

The risk to gather enough materials to produce the boosters still exists because gas clouds can mostly be found in lower security space. I think upon further review, if it is not fearfully biased, you will see high sec manufacturing will boost revenue for lower security space industrialists who will have more outlets for both their raw components and finished drug products.

Look at the bigger picture without trying to create/maintain a no longer useful monopoly for lower security space industrialists that are otherwise doing well and will certainly only benefit from a larger demand for their products in high sec markets where most pilots inhabit.

It has the added benefit of luring more pilots into lower security space on a regular basis to keep their high sec drug manufacturing facilities supplied. Many will learn to like it. Many will often come to a fiery conclusion. How is any of that a bad thing?
Black Pedro
Mine.
#7 - 2016-07-12 09:07:08 UTC
SynthesisX wrote:
Look at the bigger picture without trying to create/maintain a no longer useful monopoly for lower security space industrialists that are otherwise doing well and will certainly only benefit from a larger demand for their products in high sec markets where most pilots inhabit.

It has the added benefit of luring more pilots into lower security space on a regular basis to keep their high sec drug manufacturing facilities supplied. Many will learn to like it. Many will often come to a fiery conclusion. How is any of that a bad thing?
How will letting some industrialists move their operations from lowsec to highsec lure more people into lowsec? The production side of the equation has no direct effect on the demand of boosters so all you would be doing is increasing the competition by making it easier to get into the business, and lowering the risk (and profits) for booster manufacturers.

The game needs more reasons for players to leave highsec and fight each other - the risk vs. reward of the various spaces has fallen so terribly out of balance in recent years. Removing one of the few advantages for an industrialist to take the risk and spend the effort to set up shop in lowsec or a wormhole is not a good direction to take, and one that is likely not in the cards.

If anything, non-highsec industrialists still need more reasons to exist given the ease and safety of operating in highsec. Lowsec should be a place players want to live and earn a living, not just visit briefly during meaningless drunken roams looking for consensual PvP.

The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?
SynthesisX
#8 - 2016-07-12 09:52:28 UTC
Black Pedro wrote:
SynthesisX wrote:
Look at the bigger picture without trying to create/maintain a no longer useful monopoly for lower security space industrialists that are otherwise doing well and will certainly only benefit from a larger demand for their products in high sec markets where most pilots inhabit.

It has the added benefit of luring more pilots into lower security space on a regular basis to keep their high sec drug manufacturing facilities supplied. Many will learn to like it. Many will often come to a fiery conclusion. How is any of that a bad thing?
How will letting some industrialists move their operations from lowsec to highsec lure more people into lowsec? The production side of the equation has no direct effect on the demand of boosters so all you would be doing is increasing the competition by making it easier to get into the business, and lowering the risk (and profits) for booster manufacturers.

The game needs more reasons for players to leave highsec and fight each other - the risk vs. reward of the various spaces has fallen so terribly out of balance in recent years. Removing one of the few advantages for an industrialist to take the risk and spend the effort to set up shop in lowsec or a wormhole is not a good direction to take, and one that is likely not in the cards.

If anything, non-highsec industrialists still need more reasons to exist given the ease and safety of operating in highsec. Lowsec should be a place players want to live and earn a living, not just visit briefly during meaningless drunken roams looking for consensual PvP.

You ignore easily time proven market factors and fall back on the false risk vs. reward whine.

The risk in getting to and harvesting the gas clouds still exists. But you'll just pretend that is not the case.

What has fallen so terribly out of balance is the LACK of risk for seasoned lower security pilots vs high sec pilots. You have Capital ships, stealth bombers, bubbles, boosters, local resources to resupply you, hot drops, jump bridge networks, lethal POS that even flying near to can results in almost certain death, and a whole neighborhood that targets any new visitor. With all that you fear any change that will give any opportunity to someone else, shamefully pitiful.

So you think we are drunken pilots, because we live in high sec and only drop by lower security space on a lark. How often to you travel far from your homebase? I'd wager not too often. Because when you are red you are quickly dead unless you are in a fleet.

More people making boosters, means more people using boosters, which results in more people going to mine the gas clouds, which means more profit for the lower security industrialist because of the bigger market, and more content for the pvp gankers and campers who will intercept many of those seeking the gas clouds.

Sadly low sec has become the realm of anachronistic bitter pilots who can not accept change and want everyone to play like they do, just to fight. Where would you get your ships and modules and ammo if everyone only did pvp? Industrialists don't need gankers, and most gankers never leave homebase to engage in stand up fights against armed targets. Look how quickly the goons collapsed when their targets were shooting back. Most of you think gate camping and ganking makes you good at pvp because you overwhelmed your target or they had no weapons to shoot back. Great job you are a real pro!

Face the facts, the only reason you want to keep the monopoly is because you don't think you could compete against the competition, so sad to be you. Times will change despite your grumpy old man whining, so turn your wheelchair towards the sun and eat your applesauce while the new kids take over the block pops.
Black Pedro
Mine.
#9 - 2016-07-12 10:58:20 UTC
SynthesisX wrote:
The risk in getting to and harvesting the gas clouds still exists. But you'll just pretend that is not the case.
I'm not pretending anything at all. That risk still exists and your proposal does nothing to change that. But what you are falsely claiming is that somehow by allowing the second part of the industrial chain, the gas processing, to move to highsec, you are going to get more people into low sec.

You will not. In fact, you will only serve to get people to move back to highsec depleting the lowsec population further in contrast to your claim that this would be good for lowsec activity.

SynthesisX wrote:
What has fallen so terribly out of balance is the LACK of risk for seasoned lower security pilots vs high sec pilots. You have Capital ships, stealth bombers, bubbles, boosters, local resources to resupply you, hot drops, jump bridge networks, lethal POS that even flying near to can results in almost certain death, and a whole neighborhood that targets any new visitor. With all that you fear any change that will give any opportunity to someone else, shamefully pitiful.
Quit crying. The game is balanced this way for a reason. If you want to make boosters, set up shop outside of highsec. That's the deal.

Eve is about choices and trade-offs, not whining about how you can't have something like a toddler. Such behaviour is not very becoming and you are embarrassing yourself.

SynthesisX wrote:
Face the facts, the only reason you want to keep the monopoly is because you don't think you could compete against the competition, so sad to be you. Times will change despite your grumpy old man whining, so turn your wheelchair towards the sun and eat your applesauce while the new kids take over the block pops.
There is no monopoly. You can make boosters anywhere but in highsec. That is the trade-off for the security blanket of CONCORD.

Deal with that reality and adapt your game play to it. You'll find a much greater chance of success than your current course of pleading with CCP to re-write the rules of the game to suit your selfish whims.

The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?
SynthesisX
#10 - 2016-07-12 11:52:55 UTC
Black Pedro wrote:
SynthesisX wrote:
The risk in getting to and harvesting the gas clouds still exists. But you'll just pretend that is not the case.
I'm not pretending anything at all. That risk still exists and your proposal does nothing to change that. But what you are falsely claiming is that somehow by allowing the second part of the industrial chain, the gas processing, to move to highsec, you are going to get more people into low sec.

You will not. In fact, you will only serve to get people to move back to highsec depleting the lowsec population further in contrast to your claim that this would be good for lowsec activity.

SynthesisX wrote:
What has fallen so terribly out of balance is the LACK of risk for seasoned lower security pilots vs high sec pilots. You have Capital ships, stealth bombers, bubbles, boosters, local resources to resupply you, hot drops, jump bridge networks, lethal POS that even flying near to can results in almost certain death, and a whole neighborhood that targets any new visitor. With all that you fear any change that will give any opportunity to someone else, shamefully pitiful.
Quit crying. The game is balanced this way for a reason. If you want to make boosters, set up shop outside of highsec. That's the deal.

Eve is about choices and trade-offs, not whining about how you can't have something like a toddler. Such behaviour is not very becoming and you are embarrassing yourself.

SynthesisX wrote:
Face the facts, the only reason you want to keep the monopoly is because you don't think you could compete against the competition, so sad to be you. Times will change despite your grumpy old man whining, so turn your wheelchair towards the sun and eat your applesauce while the new kids take over the block pops.
There is no monopoly. You can make boosters anywhere but in highsec. That is the trade-off for the security blanket of CONCORD.

Deal with that reality and adapt your game play to it. You'll find a much greater chance of success than your current course of pleading with CCP to re-write the rules of the game to suit your selfish whims.
Why you posing bro?

You are a high sec ganker.

You don't live in lower security space.

You only shoot targets that don't shoot back. You don't know diddly about low sec industrialists.

You played yourself trying to play me but your gank record shows you never go to low sec.

High sec ganking of mining ships is not PVP, it's cowardice.

Real men shoot things that shoot back.

Talk about regions of space you inhabit, try not to live the lie here in the forums.

Your opinion will be respected when you don't pretend to know about regions you don't have the spine to visit.

c o d e stands for Cowards Offer Dumb Explanations

You're excused from this discussion because you are a fraud, 100% horse pucky.
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#11 - 2016-07-12 11:53:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Lan Wang
lets not dilute one of the last remaining occupations of the lowsec pirate by letting them be produced in highsec.

You wanna play with the big toys then move out of highsec and setup a shop

-1

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#12 - 2016-07-12 12:06:16 UTC
Temba Mapindazi wrote:
As a manufacturer I would like to get the means of production closer to my client base.


thats not how this works, you have runners for that, sell the drugs to the runners who will deliver them, you can fit soo many drugs in interceptors. its what makes drugs such a pirate-like experience.

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Black Pedro
Mine.
#13 - 2016-07-12 13:05:04 UTC
SynthesisX wrote:
Why you posing bro?

You are a high sec ganker.

You don't live in lower security space.

You only shoot targets that don't shoot back. You don't know diddly about low sec industrialists.

You played yourself trying to play me but your gank record shows you never go to low sec.

High sec ganking of mining ships is not PVP, it's cowardice.

Real men shoot things that shoot back.

Talk about regions of space you inhabit, try not to live the lie here in the forums.

Your opinion will be respected when you don't pretend to know about regions you don't have the spine to visit.

c o d e stands for Cowards Offer Dumb Explanations

You're excused from this discussion because you are a fraud, 100% horse pucky.
Friend, I think you should go dry your keyboard out. Your tears have caused your typing to come out all bolded and justified strangely.

While your tear-drenched keyboard is drying out, you can use the time to think of a real argument of to why the game should be changed in your favour that isn't completely made up of tired clichés and butthurt.

The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#14 - 2016-07-13 18:51:54 UTC
Black Pedro wrote:
SynthesisX wrote:
Why you posing bro?

You are a high sec ganker.

You don't live in lower security space.

You only shoot targets that don't shoot back. You don't know diddly about low sec industrialists.

You played yourself trying to play me but your gank record shows you never go to low sec.

High sec ganking of mining ships is not PVP, it's cowardice.

Real men shoot things that shoot back.

Talk about regions of space you inhabit, try not to live the lie here in the forums.

Your opinion will be respected when you don't pretend to know about regions you don't have the spine to visit.

c o d e stands for Cowards Offer Dumb Explanations

You're excused from this discussion because you are a fraud, 100% horse pucky.
Friend, I think you should go dry your keyboard out. Your tears have caused your typing to come out all bolded and justified strangely.

While your tear-drenched keyboard is drying out, you can use the time to think of a real argument of to why the game should be changed in your favour that isn't completely made up of tired clichés and butthurt.


Credit where it's due, the "c o d e stands for..." thing was pretty funny

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Ramses Davaham
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2016-07-20 02:10:01 UTC
While I admit I'm not at all experienced with the drug trade in industry - I can say with experience that allowing key structures in high sec space to manufacture drugs could vastly change the economy in a big way.

Likening to the ease at which we are now able to do things in high sec with POS's that we couldn't do before for example.

I'm all in favor of making more ISK - but I don't see a compelling reason to bring drug manufacturing to high sec in-spite of it being legalized.

I'm more traditionalist when it comes to EVE - lets leave it as-is for now.

So chalk one up for the "you want to do it? Get your ass out of high sec" category.
Mundi Comedentis
U.N.I.T.
#16 - 2016-08-20 12:37:17 UTC
I am all for Legalize it all the way in high sec. dont half arse it. TAX IT> Grant Premites for a ISK Fee.

I got a side issue, AS Worm Holes are not hi Sec, then can the manufactoring of Drugs allowed IN WH, including the use of items that are normally restricted to low sec. will the recation and silo work in WH.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#17 - 2016-08-20 17:10:28 UTC
Mundi Comedentis wrote:
I am all for Legalize it all the way in high sec. dont half arse it. TAX IT> Grant Premites for a ISK Fee.

I got a side issue, AS Worm Holes are not hi Sec, then can the manufactoring of Drugs allowed IN WH, including the use of items that are normally restricted to low sec. will the recation and silo work in WH.



I'm pretty sure you already can?

It's not restricted to Lowsec. It's restricted to security levels below 0.5 (so lowsec, nullsec, wh)

As for why you can't do it in highsec, I _like_ differences between the sec levels. I don't want to add new restrictions to things which already exist, but I'm not for removing them.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Maenth
The Thirteen Provinces
#18 - 2016-08-21 01:49:40 UTC
Temba Mapindazi wrote:
Now that drug boosters are no longer illegal isn't it time their production was made possible in High Sec Empire space?

As a manufacturer I would like to get the means of production closer to my client base.

Can anyone on the CSM propose this change to CCP?

It should not require a great deal of work or coding to implement. It would mean a great deal to my bottom line in terms of profitability for continued drug production.



Would you still feel like it's beneficial to your bottom line when 10,000 other manufacturers decide that it's a business to get in to? When they've pulled the BPC and material prices way up and pushed the sale prices way down?

Drones. Drones are a means to an end. An end to the ruthless Caldari 'progress' machines. An end to the barbaric 'redemption' proposed by the Amarr. What they see as chaos shall be my perfect order, merely beyond their comprehension.
Temba Mapindazi
#19 - 2016-08-29 15:17:21 UTC
Interesting that no actual lower security space drug manufacturers chimed in against allowing this to happen in High sec now that it is legal to use.

The proponents of keeping it restricted are using the same worn out tired refrains that resist every change proposed, "It will destroy the economy!", "It must be preserved as a perk for low/null sec inhabitants!", run, hide, change means the sky is falling!

Honestly on this issue I expected better.

Why we keep thinking that in order to force people to inhabit low sec and null sec we need to keep giving them "Special Privileges" mystifies me, what is the Einstein quote? "Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome is the definition of insanity."

I lived in low sec, the blood pumping rush of the instant danger is what made it desirable for me. Undocking and rolling the dice against pilots who are usually better at combat is a challenge you choose to accept because it improves your own skills with each brutal lesson.

The "Special" stuff you can mine or build helps with the cost of ship and implant replacement but they are not the primary attraction.

One day I hope someone in power embraces the time proven fact that you can not manipulate people into taking risks until they are ready to try it no matter how many shiny perks you dangle. High sec is the most densely populated region because most people want to undock, take care of their business, and then perhaps afterwards roll the dice for risk and excitement when they are in the mood or with a group of like minded people. It does not make them bad. If they were encouraged by better more effective offensive and defensive technology that made them think they'd be more then just cannon fodder for combat experts they'd likely do it more often.

Low and Null sec aversion is combating perception more than reality, successfully eluding an attack, or making a good fight out of losing to a better pilot is what makes you want to continue to return. The instant pop, followed by some juvenile ranting in local about what a great warrior he is because he and his squad of equally juvenile friends killed an unarmed vessel is what turns pilots off about returning.

A combat pilot must have two goals to survive,  #1 get the first shot in every fight , #2 get the last shot in every fight!
Temba Mapindazi
#20 - 2016-08-29 15:43:58 UTC
Maenth wrote:
Temba Mapindazi wrote:
Now that drug boosters are no longer illegal isn't it time their production was made possible in High Sec Empire space?

As a manufacturer I would like to get the means of production closer to my client base.

Can anyone on the CSM propose this change to CCP?

It should not require a great deal of work or coding to implement. It would mean a great deal to my bottom line in terms of profitability for continued drug production.



Would you still feel like it's beneficial to your bottom line when 10,000 other manufacturers decide that it's a business to get in to? When they've pulled the BPC and material prices way up and pushed the sale prices way down?
#1 Guess I am not as afraid of competition or change as you sound.

#2 Guess I think your predictions are not fact based, more likely ignorance and fear based.

#3 Everything I have done to earn a living in New Eden is being done by countless other pilots already, I am not scared of a bigger market.

#4 Nothing stopped pilots from entering drug manufacturing today or yesterday those who want to will, others will not.

#5 If more people get into drug manufacturing that means more people will buy the components to create drugs, which in turn also could mean Gas mining will become more profitable.

#6 I look for the opportunities change creates instead of crying about whose possible fiefdom it might infringe upon.

#7 Guess I was hoping someone on the CSM could be a positive agent for change on this subject instead of just going with the popular meme of protecting the status quo at all cost.

A combat pilot must have two goals to survive,  #1 get the first shot in every fight , #2 get the last shot in every fight!
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