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Scanning problems, any advice?

Author
Grigori
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2016-07-11 04:12:22 UTC
Greetings everyone!
Came back on Eve after several years of divorce... Trying a bit of everything but here I found some difficulties.

Let's go straight to the problem.
First of all, my scanning skills are all at 4.
Using a Buzzard, caldari frig is at 5 and covert Ops at 4.
Using a SoE launcher and SoE probes.
The probes have a shown scanning strength around 112/114 (don't remember exactly, but surely over 112).
I was able to find relics and data sites in nullsec with quite food loot, guess was a quite high site, already found, scanned and hacked dozens of them so I probably know what I am doing and how to do that.

Well, yesterday I was in Yria, sec 0.5 if I remember well, and I came across a site I couldn't scan more than 38%, no matter what I tried. I closed the probes one at time manually, close them all together with ctrl, relaunched them, tried to scan it several times from 4au to 0.25, we'll I tried EVERYTHING.
After this I could another one impossible to scan to 100, if my memory doesn't fail me it was a guristas regional data center.

My question is, how it can be?
Something is missing here, but still I hear ppl around bragging how they scan everything with a couple shots with lvl 3 skills, I highly doubt that.

Any idea/suggestions?

Thanks everyone.
Mr Mac
Dark Goliath
#2 - 2016-07-11 05:07:31 UTC
Try with implant/scanning upgrades (new mid-slot module)
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2016-07-11 05:57:32 UTC
sounds like a superior sleeper cache, I think you need over 120 scan strength to grab one of those.

1 scan rangefinding array should put you over that requirement
Zoltan Lazar
#4 - 2016-07-11 06:58:24 UTC
There are things which require all V scanning skills & usage of the mid slot modules & rigs & implants to scan down.

DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2016-07-11 07:09:17 UTC  |  Edited by: DeMichael Crimson
Since you're already using top line equipment, I suggest training up the scanning skills to level 5, especially if you're going to engage in exploration career.

With top line scan bonus ship, launcher, probes and level 5 scanning skills, you won't need to fit up the various scan upgrade modules or scan rigs.

As for Scanning Implants, there's only one Implant that I use which is very helpful :
Slot #8 = Poteque 'Prospector' Astrometric Rangefinding AR-806
(6% stronger scanning strength with scan probes)

That will allow you to fit up a better defensive tank on your ship and still be able to get 100% signal on all signatures with a few scans.

Course if you're making a character strictly for scanning then yeah, max train all scanning skills and have clone fit with top line scan Implants and use top line scan bonus ship fit with scan upgrade modules, rigs, launcher and probes.



DMC

EDIT :
Zoltan Lazar wrote:
There are things which require all V scanning skills & usage of the mid slot modules & rigs & implants to scan down.
With what I posted above, I've been able to 100% probe most everything with just a few scans using 4 Sisters probes, no scan rigs or scan upgrade modules fitted. Course I'm using a Tech 3 Strategic Cruiser fit with scanning sub-system. I may be wrong but I think it has about the same scan attribute as all other scan bonus ships.

Anyway, every once in a while I will find one site unable to get past 99% signal strength using 4 Sisters probes. When that happens I launch another 2 Sisters probes onto the signature. If that doesn't get 100% signal I just recall the Sisters probes and launch 6 RSS Core Scanner Probes. Those probes have 1 more Base Sensor Strength point compared to the Sisters probes. That increases the scan strength by 6 points which is more than enough to get the 100% signal strength.

I only use RSS probes when needed because they don't have a long Max Flight Time like Sisters probes. RSS probes have 1000 sec flight time, Sisters probes have 4000 sec flight time.

Yeah, I like scanning with 4 probes. It's easy and works great for me. I rarely use more than 4 probes and only do it when it's absolutely needed.
Roenok Baalnorn
Baalnorn Heavy Industries
#6 - 2016-07-11 12:24:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Roenok Baalnorn
I always used 8 sister probes and use the pinpoint formation. I use an astero with one scanning mod and one scan rig. With all level 4 scan skills. I can scan down pretty much anything.

covert ops has better scan strength at level 4 i think so it should be easier than using a astero. Make sure you have your astrometric skills trained. There are a few of them and they help. Also you need to put the dot in the scan box you move around center( for hard scans) moving it as much as a millimeter off center on hard scans can weaken the result by a full percent.
KaarBaak
Squirrel Team
#7 - 2016-07-11 16:16:16 UTC
Interesting. I've always used an Anathema with 5 SOE probes. Last week I was doing great in it...getting to 100% generally when I get to 1AU. Skills all at 5. Highsec

Decided a couple weeks ago to try a T3 cruiser and maybe try my hand in some more...contested...areas (wormholes, primarily.)

Put the ship together and fitted it out. I'm not on my EvE PC, so don't have the exact loadout, but pretty standard...though not any of the new modules mentioned here (just came back to the game a month ago and wasn't aware of them.)

Anyway...decided to take out the ride in highsec for some trials. Was in 0.7 space and started probing down a site (5 probes...same as previous) but could not get above about 57% for some reason. I've never not been able to probe down a high-sec site using 5 SOE probes.

I didn't have a chance to go back and grab an Anathema for a direct comparison, but is this to be expected? Is an exploration-fit Legion that much worse than the Anathema? I'll grab my T3 fit when I get home and update.

KB

Dum Spiro Spero

Shiloh Templeton
Cheyenne HET Co
#8 - 2016-07-11 18:49:23 UTC
Zoltan Lazar wrote:
There are things which require all V scanning skills & usage of the mid slot modules & rigs & implants to scan down.


Having a character which spent the time to train all scanning skills to V I was disappointed to find that I can scan down all PVE sigs with a character that has level IV astronomics, rangefinder/pinpoint III using sisters probes in a bonused ship (including superior cache sites).

The extra training time comes into play for combat probing and using unbonused ships.




DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2016-07-12 02:11:43 UTC
KaarBaak wrote:
Interesting. I've always used an Anathema with 5 SOE probes. Last week I was doing great in it...getting to 100% generally when I get to 1AU. Skills all at 5. Highsec

Decided a couple weeks ago to try a T3 cruiser and maybe try my hand in some more...contested...areas (wormholes, primarily.)

Put the ship together and fitted it out. I'm not on my EvE PC, so don't have the exact loadout, but pretty standard...though not any of the new modules mentioned here (just came back to the game a month ago and wasn't aware of them.)

Anyway...decided to take out the ride in highsec for some trials. Was in 0.7 space and started probing down a site (5 probes...same as previous) but could not get above about 57% for some reason. I've never not been able to probe down a high-sec site using 5 SOE probes.

I didn't have a chance to go back and grab an Anathema for a direct comparison, but is this to be expected? Is an exploration-fit Legion that much worse than the Anathema? I'll grab my T3 fit when I get home and update.

KB

What's the ship and sub-system skill level ?

I have all scanning, ship and sub-system skills at level 5. Clone has 1 scan Implant - Slot #8 = Poteque 'Prospector' Astrometric Rangefinding AR-806 (6% stronger scanning strength with scan probes). Using Sisters Launcher and Probes on T3 Cruiser with scan sub-system gives me 120.2 Base Sensor Strength on the probes.



DMC
Grigori
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2016-07-12 02:12:53 UTC
just s little clarification, i alwais launch ALL my 8 probes...

is that even more weird?

(sorry drunk replu jere ;d) Pirate
KaarBaak
Squirrel Team
#11 - 2016-07-12 03:28:08 UTC  |  Edited by: KaarBaak
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
KaarBaak wrote:
Interesting. I've always used an Anathema with 5 SOE probes. Last week I was doing great in it...getting to 100% generally when I get to 1AU. Skills all at 5. Highsec

Decided a couple weeks ago to try a T3 cruiser and maybe try my hand in some more...contested...areas (wormholes, primarily.)

Put the ship together and fitted it out. I'm not on my EvE PC, so don't have the exact loadout, but pretty standard...though not any of the new modules mentioned here (just came back to the game a month ago and wasn't aware of them.)

Anyway...decided to take out the ride in highsec for some trials. Was in 0.7 space and started probing down a site (5 probes...same as previous) but could not get above about 57% for some reason. I've never not been able to probe down a high-sec site using 5 SOE probes.

I didn't have a chance to go back and grab an Anathema for a direct comparison, but is this to be expected? Is an exploration-fit Legion that much worse than the Anathema? I'll grab my T3 fit when I get home and update.

KB

What's the ship and sub-system skill level ?

I have all scanning, ship and sub-system skills at level 5. Clone has 1 scan Implant - Slot #8 = Poteque 'Prospector' Astrometric Rangefinding AR-806 (6% stronger scanning strength with scan probes). Using Sisters Launcher and Probes on T3 Cruiser with scan sub-system gives me 120.2 Base Sensor Strength on the probes.



DMC

my subsystem skill levels are bare minimum. All at 1.

T3 Fit:
[Legion, KaarBaak's Legion]
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Warp Core Stabilizer II
Warp Core Stabilizer II
Warp Core Stabilizer II
Warp Core Stabilizer II

50MN Microwarpdrive II
Cargo Scanner II
Data Analyzer II
Relic Analyzer II

Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Sisters Core Probe Launcher
Heavy Pulse Laser II
Heavy Pulse Laser II
Heavy Pulse Laser II
Heavy Pulse Laser II

Medium Anti-Thermal Pump II
Medium Low Friction Nozzle Joints II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II

Legion Electronics - Emergent Locus Analyzer
Legion Defensive - Augmented Plating
Legion Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix
Legion Offensive - Covert Reconfiguration
Legion Propulsion - Interdiction Nullifier


Sisters Core Scanner Probe x8
Scorch M x6

This was a fit recommended for WH exploration.

I'm guessing the problem is due to the subsystem training? I guess I'll train those up and see what happens.

Edit: Also found my base sensor strength to 79.9, which seems low. need to find my Anathema to see the diff.

Edit2: Aaaand base sensor strength in Anathema is 109.

"mystery" solved.

Dum Spiro Spero

Grigori
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2016-07-12 17:41:32 UTC
Update:

probe strenght now is 118.8 and i couldn't find an unstable WH after 7/8 scan, with all 8 probes out, closing them,well doing all what I usually do... No more than 78.1

Mistery! Shocked
Grigori
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2016-07-12 18:06:08 UTC
Grigori wrote:
Update:

probe strenght now is 118.8 and i couldn't find an unstable WH after 7/8 scan, with all 8 probes out, closing them,well doing all what I usually do... No more than 78.1

Mistery! Shocked



Update 2 : plugged the AR-806 and now scan probe's strenght is a sound 125.9

Let's see how will go from now on!
KaarBaak
Squirrel Team
#14 - 2016-07-14 00:41:26 UTC
Is there a link to somewhere that has the maths that go into scanning? Trying to determine how strength and deviation effect scanning.

TIA

KB

Dum Spiro Spero

Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#15 - 2016-07-14 05:05:00 UTC
KaarBaak wrote:
Is there a link to somewhere that has the maths that go into scanning? Trying to determine how strength and deviation effect scanning.

TIA

KB


There isn't. Back when scanning was hard(ish) -- that is, deep space probes were still a thing, but not so long ago that you had to drop probes and wait -- there were some cursory attempts but they quickly got into some nasty 3-dimensional math which combined rather unfavorably with the lack of data available. Rule of thumb now: 120 pins anything, even superior sleeper caches (which are harder than anything that existed at the time). In fact, I seem ok nailing them at 113 (at least I think that's right; I don't think that clone has an AR-806).
Mortlake
Somalian Coast Guard Authority
#16 - 2016-07-17 21:54:37 UTC
Probably a sleeper cache. They're not easy with mediocre skills, you need implants/mods/rigs to compensate.

Sometimes you hit the bar and sometimes the bar hits you...

Nya Kittenheart
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#17 - 2016-07-17 22:13:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Nya Kittenheart
KaarBaak electronics subsystem level 5 will fix your scan strength power.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2016-07-19 02:57:25 UTC
I've actually started using 5 probes now which makes it much easier to lock in the signature. 1 probe is placed directly on the signature and the other 4 are placed around it at North, South, East and West, like on a compass, all intersecting the signature.



DMC
Roci Nantes
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2016-07-19 16:31:24 UTC
You can use a jump clone that is designed to do nothing but scan. Below is the build I use and it does make for an expensive ship but you should not run into anything you can't scan or hack.

https://o.smium.org/loadout/93374

I have not been scanning as much as of late but I do get the bug every now and again. Using a clone like that you can hop in a Tengu and go play in a WH or scan down any ded you like. I'd just replace the nomad with a crystal set if that is your plan.