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Question about Carriers and Fighters

Author
Lotara Kyz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1 - 2016-07-08 11:46:45 UTC
Hey folks,

Brand new Archon pilot here. I know they suck now and all that, but hell, after investing so much into training and its too late to turn back. So I'm trying to make it work and I could realy use some help.

1 - What is the point of NSA? If it's just scanres that seems kinda pointless unless I am missing something since it also disables ewar
2 - Is there a meaningful diference in light-fighters? I mean the regular ones, not anti-bomber. I tried comparing them but I lack the experience to draw any meaningful conclusion.
3 - In PvE I have alot of trouble keeping my wings alive. Are there any tricks to keeping aggro on myself or is this just something I have to deal with by recall-relaunching?
Soel Reit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2016-07-08 15:30:40 UTC
1- NSA. it's not useless it depends what you use it for:
fast lock on targets leaving your mid slots free? so you can fit omnidirectional links and apply better damage with your fighters etc

2- fighters are different from each other, same thing as for drones. go through the data and find the difference! may it be speed, shield/armor tanked, tracking, damage type etc.
(if you can't tell the differences by yourself you shouldn't probably fly a carrier.... not yet)

3- dunno, you get the initial aggro?
Lotara Kyz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3 - 2016-07-08 15:43:23 UTC
1 - I use mid slots for webs/TP. Hard to hit anything otherwise. But yea, ok, I thought maybe I just missed something.

2 - Yea, I see how they are diferent, but I was looking for more of a "X fighter is best in Y situations because Z" kind of advice. Like I said, I lack the experience to make that judgement and flying a ship is the only real way to get experience.

3 - Yes, but they are very happy to switch. I tried using TPs and neuts but to no effect on aggro.
Soel Reit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2016-07-08 19:43:26 UTC
1- i mean...... if you use your carrier in pvp it's kinda difficult to web someone long enough with the carrier, you usually leave that role to fast tackels...
if you use your carrier to rat then ok, but there are the support fighters that can solve that problem for you... so you basically want to oneshot rats and so keep locking fast new targets.

2- again it depends: if you are using it for ratting then choose the main damage type for those rats.
if you are using them for pvp you probably want the ones with better speed/tracking for small targets and the right damage type's drones for BS to apply more damage

3- yes, lately people keep telling that aggro keep going on fighters... probably it's working as intended... need to fit a RR and rep your fighters What?
Minerva Arbosa
Spatial Forces
Warped Intentions
#5 - 2016-07-08 20:31:22 UTC
3.) This is the order I kill rats in my carrier:
A - Fast Frigates / Destroyers -- they like to shoot at your fighters more than anything.
B - Cruisers - they also like to shoot at fighters.
C - Battlecruisers
D - Battleships

Faster you get the A & B groups off the field the less likely of a chance you will have issues with losing fighters.

Some things to help mitigate is get your Light Fighter skill up to 4 to get 20% increased fighter hit points. If your fighters don't have enough damage or speed then use some of the drone modules as they also work on fighters. You can get speed boost and damage boost from drone modules. Also, another tactic you can do is to use the microwarp drives on the fighters to make them orbit groups A & B faster while killing them. Rocket Salvos should be reserved for groups C & D as they don't do jack on frigates anymore.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#6 - 2016-07-08 22:33:48 UTC
For the last time the NSA is the National Security Agency. This agency is there to not spy on the American people and violating the Patriot Act all day but to protect the American people from foreign and domestic terrorism.

They even have a website www.nsa.gov.


It has nothing to do with EVE Online.


The network sensor array on the other hand does. If you want to talk that module, write it down. I do too.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

Soel Reit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2016-07-08 22:51:29 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
For the last time the NSA is the National Security Agency. This agency is there to not spy on the American people and violating the Patriot Act all day but to protect the American people from foreign and domestic terrorism.

They even have a website www.nsa.gov.


It has nothing to do with EVE Online.


The network sensor array on the other hand does. If you want to talk that module, write it down. I do too.


you wut m8?
i'm talking about the agency indeed, we don't need your precisation! we all know 100% of what we're talking about! (or not Pirate )

Bear
Degnar Oskold
Moira.
#8 - 2016-07-11 15:53:31 UTC
Lotara Kyz wrote:
Hey folks,

Brand new Archon pilot here. I know they suck now and all that, but hell, after investing so much into training and its too late to turn back. So I'm trying to make it work and I could realy use some help.

1 - What is the point of NSA? If it's just scanres that seems kinda pointless unless I am missing something since it also disables ewar
2 - Is there a meaningful diference in light-fighters? I mean the regular ones, not anti-bomber. I tried comparing them but I lack the experience to draw any meaningful conclusion.
3 - In PvE I have alot of trouble keeping my wings alive. Are there any tricks to keeping aggro on myself or is this just something I have to deal with by recall-relaunching?



1) Carrier, being capitals, have really terrible scan resolution. This makes it take a very long time to lock on to small ships like frigates and fighters. One of the roles of carriers is to counter the fighter squadrons of other carriers and supercarriers.
With a low scan resolution, by the time you lock up enemy fighters they may have already done significant damage.
The NSA was presumably introduced to counter this. It increases the scan resolution by a huge margin allowing you to lock up enemy fighters and drones fast enough to be able to tell your own fighters to attack them before they do too much damage.
Unfortunately a higher scan res also makes you lock subcapital ships even faster. To prevent this from being OP (ie insta-locking gatecamps) the NSA disables offensive e-war.
Most carriers will fit this so that they can lock onto small targets in a reasonable amount of time. Some carriers still skip them in order to be able to use target painters, foregoing lock time in favour of better damage application.
Personally I prefer to fit the NSA and put omnidirectional tracking links in the mids where the TPs would have gone, they have a similar effect this way.

2) There is a spectrum of light fighters from Gallente => Caldari => Amarr => Minmatar
As you go from left to right the fighters do less damage but move faster. Roughly speaking Minmatar fighters do 20% less damage but move 20% faster.

3) Make sure you train Light Fighters to at least iV, and drone durability to V. Flying a Thanatos gives you a bonus to fighter EHP too.
Lotara Kyz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#9 - 2016-07-12 09:48:11 UTC
Thank you for all the great answers! I have another question to add through. I am currently running with stasis grappler and stasis webifier in mid slots. This is so that I could dramaticly increase damage against tacklers should they ever drop on me. Looking at the other designs I've never seen this setup and I wander why? In 1v1 tests vs ab proteus this almost tripples the damage. Am I looking at this whole "defensive pvp" wrong or are their better modules to achieve the same effect? Please consider that there is no chance I will ever fight a capital ship here but likewise I can not expect to get help from anything more then 5-6 BC or smaller-sized ships. I have extremly limited experience with carriers and practicly noone with up-to-date advices so if one could sugest a fit - that would also be highly apretiated, but please, do add some reasoning behind it.
Soel Reit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2016-07-12 12:16:35 UTC
you can't use web and grappler with an NSA at the same time...
so if you choose:
- NSA, your option is to use 2 light fighters plus 1 support fighter (web fighter)
- not NSA, then you are free to use any EWar module you want, web and target painter too.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2016-07-12 12:50:02 UTC
I believe standard ratting carriers carry Network sensor array with application modules in the mids and lows instead of using tp/web without it.

For PvP you rely on your fleet to do tackling for you.
Roenok Baalnorn
Baalnorn Heavy Industries
#12 - 2016-07-12 13:44:25 UTC
Lotara Kyz wrote:
This is so that I could dramaticly increase damage against tacklers should they ever drop on me. Looking at the other designs I've never seen this setup and I wander why?


Because if you get caught in a carrier and you dont have support available immediately to help you, you are probably already dead. You dont want to learn how to counter tackle, you dont want to be tackled ever period. In fact, if a hostile lands on grid with you, your using a carrier wrong for ratting. A hostile should NEVER land on grid with you.

Killing the first on grid is many times not going to matter, Unless he is a terrible cyno dropper or you are dealing with complete noobs at pvp. Gangs run multiple points on multiple ships. And are usually prepared for the case of catching a ratting carrier. Your odds of surviving when someone lands on grid is slim to none. You should of safed up before they even entered system.

Carriers are squishy and die quickly. If you last more than 2 minutes against a decent gang i would be very impressed.

In short, dont ever get caught ratting in a carrier because once you do the only thing thats going to save you is a bloody miracle.
Degnar Oskold
Moira.
#13 - 2016-07-12 17:36:01 UTC
Lotara Kyz wrote:
Thank you for all the great answers! I have another question to add through. I am currently running with stasis grappler and stasis webifier in mid slots. This is so that I could dramaticly increase damage against tacklers should they ever drop on me. Looking at the other designs I've never seen this setup and I wander why? In 1v1 tests vs ab proteus this almost tripples the damage. Am I looking at this whole "defensive pvp" wrong or are their better modules to achieve the same effect? Please consider that there is no chance I will ever fight a capital ship here but likewise I can not expect to get help from anything more then 5-6 BC or smaller-sized ships. I have extremly limited experience with carriers and practicly noone with up-to-date advices so if one could sugest a fit - that would also be highly apretiated, but please, do add some reasoning behind it.


They will not tackle you from within stasis and grapple range. They will use interceptors with long points that will tackle you from somehwere between 18 and 36km away.

Under this circumstance your only hopes are
1) Bring friends to bail you out, before the interceptors' friends arrive
2) Refit to enough warp core stabs from a mobile depot to be able to warp off and jump out
3) try to neut out the interceptors with heavy energy neuts
4) If you are in a Nidhoggue, deploy a squadron of dromi IIs with 20km webs and 2 squadrons of grams and try to chase down the interceptors. You did fit 2 drone navigation computers didn't you?
Lotara Kyz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#14 - 2016-07-12 21:18:14 UTC
[Archon, Berserker]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane
Damage Control II
CONCORD Capital Armor Repairer
Capital Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste

Heavy Stasis Grappler II
True Sansha Stasis Webifier
Capital Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 3200
Capital Cap Battery II

Fighter Support Unit I
Fighter Support Unit I
Fighter Support Unit I
Heavy Infectious Scoped Energy Neutralizer
Heavy Infectious Scoped Energy Neutralizer

Capital Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Capital Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Capital Capacitor Control Circuit II

Templar I x9
Templar I x9
Templar I x9

This is the fit I run now. I can do PvE well enough in it since I only need 1 rep most of the time, so neuts and stasis are intended to keep me safe from tacklers. But with the latest comments I see that this idea is not going to work. What would you recomend if my aim with the carrier is to have a fit that can do PvE, but can be droped to help out a subcap fleet against other subcap fleet should the need be. The subcap fleets in question are small, up to 20 man fleets with mostly cruisers/BCs and maybe a couple BSes. Please keep in mind that my skills atm are low so capital T2 stuff is out of the question.
Soel Reit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2016-07-12 23:29:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Soel Reit
well in this case i'd go with:
3 drone damage amplifier
and only 1 rep (not the ancillary one)

my tactic would be easy: main damage dealer. if you have to go down, then bring as many as you can with you.
i would leave the ewar to my support fleet (webs, points, target painter).

in the mids i'd opt for 2 omni tracking links instead of web and grappler.
probably even the cap battery is useless with only 1 rep, so that make 3 omni tracking links.

capital's neut receive a penalty for the sig of smaller ships so idk if they are worth...

for the highs:
3 fighter support units
1 nsa
1 last slot: for a cyno (but you don't have friends to cyno in) or a cloacking device if eventually you can warp off and have aggro timer and there isn't any your own pos in the system... so warp to a safe and cloak up.

and only experience can teach you the exact fit, don't have fear to try different things.
expect to lose the carrier from time to time. man! every day i look at the KB there is always a TEST ratting carrier on it Lol

as you see, we aren't the only noobs around Cool