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[118.7] Warp Bubble Dragging Change

First post First post
Author
Cade Windstalker
#201 - 2016-07-07 00:17:02 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
Cade Windstalker wrote:
...The explanation given for warp drive mechanics in that wiki entry I linked gets around more or less all of this, because the area of space time you're traveling "on" is flat, so no "gravimetric drag forces" or other nastiness. How does it do that? That's why this is Science Fiction Blink

Though if you have an FTL drive to test I'm sure CCP, Nasa, Cern, and any number of other people would *love* to hear about it! Big smile


You asked for mental gymnastics and I gave it. Not my fault you didn't understand most of it, it is fine. Same thing happens when I try to explain to my buddies how very exciting subatomic particles are or how to make quantum entanglement work for "long distance calls".
Would be easy enough to "read" a binary message of entangled up- and down-quarks but okay, I always get some angry looks when I talk about spins and quarks and... okay I stop..

I bet the JPL would be very interested but since I don't have a physics degree, they wouldn't even listen in the first place..


I actually did understand most of it, I just don't think it counters or subverts the currently available technobabble about how Eve Online warp-drives work. This is Science Fiction so current theories about warp drives, and their possible problems, are at best tangentially applicable.

Also gravity waves, and really any effects from going past the speed of light, wouldn't apply here. By definition a warp drive that's pinching space has to have an isolated core. What you should really be asking here is how the hells we go through planets instead of turning them into new asteroid belts... Lol
Blade Darth
Room for Improvement
Good Sax
#202 - 2016-07-07 22:37:27 UTC
+ for the band aid fix

how about moving citadels off grid, sure there aren't too many citadel gatecamps.... >_____>


Zacktar wrote:
I think dragging or stopping a warp should be completely removed. It is very risk averse for bubble campers to partake of this cowardly act. Anything landing that may be a threat to them allows them to simply not engage or overwhelm. Fish in a barrel thing.

My opinion is to not allow bubbles to affect already in warp ships at all.

Not sure if troll or special snowflake. You sure watched one or two pvp videos but throwing the therm "risk awerse" at drag bubbles sends a message you got no idea what it means or how camps work. Won't even comment on the warp thing, think on your own what it would do to bubble ships and fleet pvp.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#203 - 2016-07-08 00:41:48 UTC
Blade Darth wrote:
+ for the band aid fix

how about moving citadels off grid, sure there aren't too many citadel gatecamps.... >_____>


Zacktar wrote:
I think dragging or stopping a warp should be completely removed. It is very risk averse for bubble campers to partake of this cowardly act. Anything landing that may be a threat to them allows them to simply not engage or overwhelm. Fish in a barrel thing.

My opinion is to not allow bubbles to affect already in warp ships at all.

Not sure if troll or special snowflake. You sure watched one or two pvp videos but throwing the therm "risk awerse" at drag bubbles sends a message you got no idea what it means or how camps work. Won't even comment on the warp thing, think on your own what it would do to bubble ships and fleet pvp.

Of course bubble camps have an element of risk aversion.
Like the guy/s who sits cloaked at the edge of the bubbles, will let anything he can't or won't fight because he might lose slowboat to the gate but if something that poses no risk to him (hauler for example) lands in his bubble trap he will race to kill it (notice i said kill it, not fight it).

No risk, all reward.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Brokk Witgenstein
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#204 - 2016-07-08 03:40:57 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:

Like the guy/s who sits cloaked at the edge of the bubbles, will let anything he can't or won't fight because he might lose slowboat to the gate but if something that poses no risk to him (hauler for example) lands in his bubble trap he will race to kill it (notice i said kill it, not fight it).

No risk, all reward.


Till the hauler lights his cyno that is.
Till something comes through he can kill, followed by a ceptorfleet.
Till the ship turns out to be a deadspace death machine.
Till undersized guns.
Till another cloaky shows up and waits for the camper to make a move.
Till bait Nereus.
.....
no risk confirmed.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#205 - 2016-07-08 05:52:36 UTC
Querns wrote:
Ship it!

CCP Larrikin and CCP Rise

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."

Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#206 - 2016-07-08 06:22:02 UTC
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:

Like the guy/s who sits cloaked at the edge of the bubbles, will let anything he can't or won't fight because he might lose slowboat to the gate but if something that poses no risk to him (hauler for example) lands in his bubble trap he will race to kill it (notice i said kill it, not fight it).

No risk, all reward.


Till the hauler lights his cyno that is.
Till something comes through he can kill, followed by a ceptorfleet.
Till the ship turns out to be a deadspace death machine.
Till undersized guns.
Till another cloaky shows up and waits for the camper to make a move.
Till bait Nereus.
.....
no risk confirmed.

LOL.. you really live out there don't you.

Who's going to waste a cyno and fatigue on a Svipul ganking off a drag bubble?
Hmm he's sitting cloaked off a drag bubble and DOESN'T see a ceptor fleet jump in and warp to him - He deserves to die.
A deaspsace fit hauler that can outgun a Svipul - I'd like to see that fit.
Undersized guns? wtf does that have to do with anything..
Another cloaky? yeah ok I'll give you that 100 to 1 shot. so minor risk that is pretty easy to avoid. If he's cloaked off the same drag bubble, chances are he is hunting too.
Bait nereus - Stupidity on the hunters side doesn't make it risky. Still by the time the Nereus's support fleet jumps in and warps to the bubble, the Nereus should be well and truely dead.

So I'll upgrade risk to minimal, depending on how smart the hunter is - A stupid hunter, well, you get the idea but that's more player skill vs reward, not risk vs reward.
A lone hunter off a drag bubble faces, minimal risk, if any at all.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#207 - 2016-07-08 09:31:00 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:

A deaspsace fit hauler that can outgun a Svipul - I'd like to see that fit.


HTHTwisted
Ooohhmmm
suicide b.y cop
#208 - 2016-07-08 13:17:59 UTC
If this means I can no longer deploy a working bubble mid-way, between gates. No thanks.
Back to the drawing board. Perhaps link change to citadels, as this is how this has been exploited?
ISD Decoy
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#209 - 2016-07-08 13:45:16 UTC
I have removed an off-topic post. Please keep it clean and on-topic.

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Cade Windstalker
#210 - 2016-07-08 15:13:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Cade Windstalker
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:

A deaspsace fit hauler that can outgun a Svipul - I'd like to see that fit.


HTHTwisted


BUAHAHAHAHA Pirate

Is k guys, we found the counter to T3Ds, everyone can go home now... Lol

Seriously warn people before linking stuff like that, I almost died laughing in public.

Ooohhmmm wrote:
If this means I can no longer deploy a working bubble mid-way, between gates. No thanks.
Back to the drawing board. Perhaps link change to citadels, as this is how this has been exploited?


That would be the case with this change. You could still deploy your catch bubble on-grid with the gate though.

What can you do that is very significant with this bubble setup that you can't also do with an on-grid setup at the gate?
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
Brave Collective
#211 - 2016-07-09 14:50:10 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:

Like the guy/s who sits cloaked at the edge of the bubbles, will let anything he can't or won't fight because he might lose slowboat to the gate but if something that poses no risk to him (hauler for example) lands in his bubble trap he will race to kill it (notice i said kill it, not fight it).

No risk, all reward.


Till the hauler lights his cyno that is.
Till something comes through he can kill, followed by a ceptorfleet.
Till the ship turns out to be a deadspace death machine.
Till undersized guns.
Till another cloaky shows up and waits for the camper to make a move.
Till bait Nereus.
.....
no risk confirmed.

LOL.. you really live out there don't you.

Who's going to waste a cyno and fatigue on a Svipul ganking off a drag bubble?


I can answer that.

And the winners of this years griefing award goes to (drumroll) ... Good Sex and the Romulans.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

Ryzelll
Brothers of Tyr
Dracarys.
#212 - 2016-07-12 02:19:09 UTC
Go ahead and make the change I'll just find a new way abuse the mechanic and so will everyone else.Twisted
Cade Windstalker
#213 - 2016-07-12 03:12:52 UTC
Ryzelll wrote:
Go ahead and make the change I'll just find a new way abuse the mechanic and so will everyone else.Twisted


But it won't be this way or these exact mechanics, and thus the game of whack-a-mole continues...
Guillome Renard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#214 - 2016-07-12 14:19:37 UTC
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Hi Space Friends,

The current range that warp bubbles are effective (how far from your destination they can pull you out of warp) is a little unclear. This has lead to some 'interesting' possibilities, such as bubble camping a gate with a citadel.

With the 118.7 patch, we are considering changing the maximum distance for a warp bubble (mobile, probe or hictor bubble) to effect a warp to be 500km.

This means only warp disruption bubbles that are 500km in-front or behind your warp destination, which are inline with your warp, will pull you out of warp early or drag you.

What do you think? We'd love your feedback!

Update 2016-07-04 - Q&A


Make sure you include ESS in this as well, since they're a backdoor bubble.

http://fcftw.eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=662501

Anthar Thebess
#215 - 2016-07-14 11:58:16 UTC
Why not give us more bubbles including one that block nullified ships?
People ask for this for a long time.

If i have sov, why i cannot deploy a bubble that will block all nullified ships ?
Let say, separate type of bubble, that need to be entosised to work and block incoming nullified ships.

Perfect balance - no AFK game play.
You don't have entosis link running - there is no bubble - you apply entosis - you get anti nullification bubble.
Cade Windstalker
#216 - 2016-07-14 12:44:44 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Why not give us more bubbles including one that block nullified ships?
People ask for this for a long time.

If i have sov, why i cannot deploy a bubble that will block all nullified ships ?
Let say, separate type of bubble, that need to be entosised to work and block incoming nullified ships.

Perfect balance - no AFK game play.
You don't have entosis link running - there is no bubble - you apply entosis - you get anti nullification bubble.


Because if there's a Bubble that blocks Nullified Ships then there's no reason to use anything else and the whole point and advantage of Nullified ships goes almost completely out the window? Making it something that needs to be active to be used doesn't really change that your proposal negates a major feature of several hulls.

If you want to catch, stop, or destroy Nullified hulls then there are already several options available to you, including Smartbomb camps, insta-lock on the in-gate, and guarding whatever they're going after.
Anthar Thebess
#217 - 2016-07-14 12:48:55 UTC
Bubble need to be entosised to work, by adding simple modification that this module only works when both module and entosising person are from alliance holding TCU in system, we get pretty balanced mechanic.

You fought for the space, and conquered it - you get important benefits.
Cade Windstalker
#218 - 2016-07-14 16:36:20 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Bubble need to be entosised to work, by adding simple modification that this module only works when both module and entosising person are from alliance holding TCU in system, we get pretty balanced mechanic.

You fought for the space, and conquered it - you get important benefits.


This isn't actually a good argument for the benefit you're proposing though. There are already plenty of benefits to owning space, what you need to do is make a case for why having a barely trained alt (with a fit worth less than a T2 Large bubble) pointing a module at an anchored bubble should negate a major ability on several ship classes and why this is good gameplay.

A successful camp already requires active participation, and there are already tools available to deal with Interceptors, it's just difficult which is the point of the ship.
Zataer Kanewald
Girls Lie But Zkill Doesn't
Pandemic Legion
#219 - 2016-07-15 18:18:24 UTC
Instead of adding an expiry timer to bubbles, can we have gate rats shoot bubbles that they land in? If someone wants to leave 20 unattended bubbles on a gate, the resident NPCs should just shoot them.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#220 - 2016-07-17 02:20:16 UTC
i think it would be better just to get citadels off gate grids