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Advanced Route Planning Suggestions?

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Haigor
Illuminated
Goonswarm Federation
#1 - 2016-07-07 09:00:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Haigor
Alright so I just spent an hour and a half plotting this: http://puu.sh/pTfQn/7b0dc3f10b.jpg

And it was painful. Working through the best way to visit as many systems as possible with the least amount of loops by hand and from scratch was difficult to say the least.

Overall, I want the ability to plot complex, efficient routes that touch as many high-sec systems as possible. Does anyone have any suggestions on tips, tricks, third party tools, or something that would make this process easier?

Depending on how fruitful my 'expedition' is tomorrow through this route I would be fine with doing it manually if no other solution presents itself. But without the ability to save a route or assign stricter rules to the auto-pathing system, doing this sort of thing system-by-system is a painful process. ANY suggestions would be welcomed.
Archibald Thistlewaite III
The Royal Society for the Prevention of Miners
#2 - 2016-07-07 10:30:08 UTC
My only suggestion is you are seriously over compicating things. But without knowing the reason for the route you have set, I can't see why you need upto 10 systems in a row set as waypoints.

They way I set up routes with multiple waypoints is; I right click each system/station I want and set waypoint. I then use the ingame optimise route button.

I'm sure my method has a hard limit on the number of waypoints which you will exceed but if you split your route into sections first and do the systems near Jita and then move on to systems around dodixie and then onto another area. If it takes you an hour and a half to do it manually a little bit of inefficiency in your routing would still save you a boat load of time.

Unless you really enjoy the manual plotting of routes of course.

User of 'Bumblefck's Luscious & Luminous Mustachio Wax'
Roci Nantes
Perfusus Sanguine
Pandemic Horde
#3 - 2016-07-07 13:23:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Roci Nantes
Set your starting location first. Then set all the systems you want to stop by. Finally set where you want to end up.

You choose prefer highsec and it will do the magic for you.


http://evemaps.dotlan.net/route
Cristl
#4 - 2016-07-07 15:47:12 UTC
Haigor wrote:
Does anyone have any suggestions

Yes. Set autopilot to a pub, and go and talk to people in real life and have a couple of pints.

It's not healthy to investigate 255 jump routes from The Citadel to Sinq Laison under any circumstances.
John Volan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2016-07-07 16:28:26 UTC
That is... quite the route. If you just want to be able to put it in again from a set number of waypoints and you are programmatically inclined you can use the crest api to set them.
Haigor
Illuminated
Goonswarm Federation
#6 - 2016-07-07 16:30:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Haigor
I'm doing it for finding data and relic exploration sites. I'm aware the way I'm doing it is terrible for ISK income but that's not why I'm doing it. I enjoy scanning and running the sites just for the sake of it.

But, traversing the auto-pilot routes from one location to another doesn't take you to all the out-of-the-way systems where there could be potential sites. Therefore I'm attempting to create routes that'll literally let me touch as many high-sec systems as possible so I can poke in and look for sites.

Pubs don't have sites...I don't have a 'final' destination per-say...and I will try the in-game route optimization, but I don't think it'll really help the route-creation process rather than shorten the jumps needed to get through the route already made.

The crest api is an interesting idea. I'll do some research and see what I can come up with.
CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#7 - 2016-07-07 16:38:10 UTC
Haigor wrote:
Overall, I want the ability to plot complex, efficient routes that touch as many high-sec systems as possible. Does anyone have any suggestions on tips, tricks, third party tools, or something that would make this process easier?


I recommend using a simulated annealing algorithm to plan your next trip. It'll optimize your chances of finding a global minimum number of jumps.

CCP Darwin  •  Senior Software Engineer, Art & Graphics, EVE Online  •  @mark_wilkins
Haigor
Illuminated
Goonswarm Federation
#8 - 2016-07-07 16:45:36 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
Haigor wrote:
Overall, I want the ability to plot complex, efficient routes that touch as many high-sec systems as possible. Does anyone have any suggestions on tips, tricks, third party tools, or something that would make this process easier?


I recommend using a simulated annealing algorithm to plan your next trip. It'll optimize your chances of finding a global minimum number of jumps.


That's perfect. I've already started poking around the API to see what kind of information I can pull. How extensive is the map API? Can you pull a graph-like list of systems? Maybe an array or something where each system comes with it's security status, name, and connections?
CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#9 - 2016-07-07 16:47:44 UTC
I haven't looked yet, but you may be able to find the map info you need in Eve's Static Data Export. No need to hit our API, just read the appropriate file.

CCP Darwin  •  Senior Software Engineer, Art & Graphics, EVE Online  •  @mark_wilkins
Kolodi Ramal
Sanxing Yi
#10 - 2016-07-07 16:52:16 UTC
At first: "what the mad hell are you doing?"
After explanation: "oh. that makes a lot of sense actually."
Evi Polevhia
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#11 - 2016-07-07 19:40:11 UTC
Kolodi Ramal wrote:
At first: "what the mad hell are you doing?"
After explanation: "oh. that makes a lot of sense actually."


Even after four and a half years in EVE, this is pretty much my reaction to most things around here.
Zanar Skwigelf
HIgh Sec Care Bears
Brothers of Tangra
#12 - 2016-07-07 19:57:08 UTC
OP you can simplify the process by going to a high sec island in Black Rise / Aridia / Placid / etc..

Even if you spread those 250 jumps out over a a month, you'll spend a lot of time jumping instead of running sites. HS islands are somewhat empty, and you will get more sites per system there.
Eternus8lux8lucis
Guardians of the Gate
RAZOR Alliance
#13 - 2016-07-07 20:24:08 UTC
Nice thread OP +1 from me Big smile

Ive calculated a lot of odd multiple stop trips over the yeaers and had run into the hung client interface trying to calculate these long trips as well. Its good to see that the new Crest API data and interface might solve some of that problem in the future for me so ty CCP.

I had always wondered why it was coded like it was. As I was reading my simple idea was to group the waypoints first into regional stops, and then having the optimizing tool just do chunks of 10 stops each until all waypoints are calulated, and then go back and optimize the 2+2 waypoints between each block of 10 to check for any changes between the blocks themselves. This would keep it under the 12 waypoint issue by just dividing it. This wouldnt be perfect but itd be a lot closer for longer trips.

But then we got a huge dev response and well.... nevermind right...Blink

Have you heard anything I've said?

You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?

That's right.

Had to end sometime.
Haigor
Illuminated
Goonswarm Federation
#14 - 2016-07-08 05:09:10 UTC
Alright so I've been able to pull all the information I need from the Static Data Export - thank you CCP Darwin for that suggestion. I'm not sure I'll be able to replicate the simulated annealing algorithm from scratch so I'm going to do some research tomorrow into existing code examples and see if I can jury rig something.

More than likely I'm going to make a program to read and output all the needed system information (security status, gates, name IDs) into an organized, simple text file that I can iterate through to create a graph that will hopefully be compatible with whatever simulated annealing algorithm code I manage to get working. I will probably group the system information into multiple text files by region or security status or something.

If anyone wants to be a simulated-annealing-algorithm-coding-(in Java)-expert-cool-person let me know.
Sustrai Aditua
Intandofisa
#15 - 2016-07-08 05:19:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Sustrai Aditua
CCP Darwin wrote:
I haven't looked yet, but you may be able to find the map info you need in Eve's Static Data Export. No need to hit our API, just read the appropriate file.
Metaheuristics all the way, I say.

PS When exiting a maze, put your left hand on a wall and keep walking. You'll get there...eventually.

If we get chased by zombies, I'm tripping you.
Shallanna Yassavi
qwertz corp
#16 - 2016-07-08 08:48:18 UTC
Regions marked on the map won't always do it. Part of Genesis is in Amarr space, and there's lowsec between there and Gallente space.

If you wanted to go region -> system, you would have to mark out more regions to avoid stuff like that.

A signature :o
Haigor
Illuminated
Goonswarm Federation
#17 - 2016-07-08 09:26:53 UTC
Shallanna Yassavi wrote:
Regions marked on the map won't always do it. Part of Genesis is in Amarr space, and there's lowsec between there and Gallente space.

If you wanted to go region -> system, you would have to mark out more regions to avoid stuff like that.


I don't quite follow your line of thought. If you're talking about high-sec islands, then yes. For regions that have those I would need to manually exclude them. If you're talking about how some regions are split within the region itself, but connected via high-sec through other regions, hopefully I'll be able to load more than one region into the graph at a time, but worst case I would need split the region manually.
John Volan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2016-07-08 11:51:30 UTC
Haigor wrote:
Alright so I've been able to pull all the information I need from the Static Data Export - thank you CCP Darwin for that suggestion. I'm not sure I'll be able to replicate the simulated annealing algorithm from scratch so I'm going to do some research tomorrow into existing code examples and see if I can jury rig something.

More than likely I'm going to make a program to read and output all the needed system information (security status, gates, name IDs) into an organized, simple text file that I can iterate through to create a graph that will hopefully be compatible with whatever simulated annealing algorithm code I manage to get working. I will probably group the system information into multiple text files by region or security status or something.

If anyone wants to be a simulated-annealing-algorithm-coding-(in Java)-expert-cool-person let me know.


I've actually been working on a somewhat similar application to create a route for exploration. My goal was to make a high sec route planner that went through the least traveled systems around your current location by pulling from the system jumps endpoint in the API. I'd never actually heard of the simulated annealing algorithm and it looks pretty cool but I was just attempting to do it with a flood-fill algorithm that summed the number of jumps for each possible non-overlapping route and found the minimum. If you have any interest, and if I ever get around to finishing it, I could share what I come up with.
DeODokktor
Dark Templars
The Fonz Presidium
#19 - 2016-07-08 13:39:38 UTC
Wow, SuperWow...
All I can say is that I look forward to making some ascii art using my waypoints now.

Tis a sandbox, I can draw in it how I like.
Haigor
Illuminated
Goonswarm Federation
#20 - 2016-07-08 21:46:03 UTC
John Volan wrote:

If you have any interest, and if I ever get around to finishing it, I could share what I come up with.


Yea I'd love to see what you've fiddled with thus far. What language is it in?
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