EVE General Discussion

sure: good Idea: That's surely what minning Corps are for. For every action that makes you vulnerable you use an OOC Alt. There are more Corps then just fighting Corps! These Corps can't have such a low Profile then a wardeccing corp. Could you tell me what the fun is ofr anyone of a wardecc, where the other corp just uses OOC chars while the decc lasts? If the Corps do as you say where is the sense in a wardecc? Just to destroy fun for the other corp?
You don't want to mine but you want the miners to fight at your terms. Eve is a game for me and I don't mind wardeccs I just mind the way wardeccs are implemented at the Moment. Non Consensual Wardeccs, as they are implemented now, don't create Content but are a lizence for robbery.

Newbies going straight to nullsec has been happening for years, Goons and TEST have been enabling them to do so for years, Brave followed suit and Pandemic Horde is just another example of it. There are many reasons that hisec content seems to be stale, the one you picked up on is probably the least significant.

Why would they want to, the opportunities for PvP in hisec are rapidly diminishing due to the lobbying efforts of some.

Coming from you this is truly lolworthy.

A good start is to not dismiss other people opinions as irrelevant or worthless without providing any substance as to why they're worthless; something you in particular are adept at.

My word you got out of the wrong side of the bed this morning.

Try addressing the relevant points instead of dismissing them with what you think is a quip.

Point 1: Newbies going straight to nullsec has been going on for years without overly affecting the state of content in hisec, please explain how the rise of Pandemic Horde has suddenly changed the state of content in hisec

Point 2: The opportunities for PvP in hisec are diminishing due to the removal of some mechanics and tools, please explain why new players who have been "brought up" in nullsec would want to come and live in hisec.

Point 3: You say that you're all for PvP in hisec but campaign for the removal of any PvP that doesn't meet your definition of honourable or fair, you also suggest that a change of attitude is needed on both sides, yet refuse to change your own; this is somewhat hypocritical and is why your comment was lolworthy

Point 4: You say that a good start would be not to assume something about someone because their opinion differs from yours, I pointed out that you do exactly that and dismiss other peoples opinions as irrelevant or worthless because they differ from your own; please explain how this is not hypocrisy.

TL:DR you appear to be a student of the "do what I say, not what I do" school of thought.

I want CCP to setup Obervatory Structures that are required in each constellation to gave that intel, I think that will have a important change in hisec. Please add your support to that, it will shake things up I am sure of it.

You are grumpy...

1. Actually yes and the accumulative affect became more and more evident, it was their enthusiasm that often pushed a defence, without them then less so with evident results, where people are saying that it effectively died 6-9 months ago.

2. What mechanics and what tools, the impact of the watch list is evident but only a minority were actually hunting. As for hisec, a more casual environment...

3. Whooooaa hold your horses, where have I ever said anything about removal of any PvP that is not honourable or fair, I might say balanced and I called for the increase in mining ships tanks, I called for something to be done about bumping because no consequence PvP was not Eve, but where have I said making it honourable or fair, Eve PvP is about getting the drop on people, simple as that. In this thread I just pointed out that getting upset about carebears not putting up a fight is a bit, well silly... Change of attitude requires people to understand what caused hisec to turn into an I can't be bothered to fight area and not just blame it on the carebears for being carebears...

4. Actually perhaps you could apply that to yourself, I never attacked you because you had differing opinions, but I attacked you because you had never blown up anything and you were making points about that side, and in this thread people said to me well you have no experience of war decs so you can't talk about them, except that I had and detailed them. Of course you can have a view and you make valid points, but there is a point where you do not have the experience and there areas that I do not, you never see me make any posts on living in a WH, but I will make posts about some of the WH mechanics as I go through them a lot.

Lighten up!

Try answering the question instead of skirting around it, carry on avoiding it and I'll start referring to you as Teflon Tony.

Take a historical view of it, the mechanics that enable hisec PvP have been slowly and steadily eroded to the extent that the people that engage in it are stuck with either the most boring activity a merc can do, ie camp the hubs and pipes or suicide ganking. Your casual environment answer is both facetious and not an answer, because many nullsec corps already offer a casual environment for their players, one that isn't crippled by the constraints present in hisec.

Your idea of balance is not the same as my idea of balance, nor is it the same as that of many other players; what you call balance we call removing the mechanics that allow for underhandedness, deceit and asymmetric conflict, all elements of an unfair advantage.

You may well have asked for an increase in the tank of mining ships, what you ignore is that it was already possible to tank at least some of the mining ships to the extent that they weren't worth hunting down, you also ignore that despite the buff to EHP the mining ships still die in droves because of the poor fitting choices people make. In short, CCP reworked the stats for mining ships providing the opportunity for fitting for survival or yield, many choose to ignore the former and keep going with the latter and when the inevitable happens they cry on the forums and demand yet more nerfs.

There's this thing called personal responsibilty, if you can't be bothered to be responsible for your own safety in Eve then you are a carebear; not all hisec PvE focused players are carebears, some of us do accept responsibility for our own safety and plan accordingly, that's all we ask of the carebears but apparently it's easier to ask CCP to do it for them, and other players suffer because of their laziness. So why shouldn't we lay the blame at the feet of the carebears?

Bumping could have had consequences if people had actually bothered to do anything about it, the bumpers even told people how to provide those consequences but once again laziness won the day.

Firstly didn't you call me a worthless bigmouth recently? That is a personal attack.

You attack myself/my opinions because I have zero killboard presence and had the temerity to suggest that people protect themselves, by understanding and using the mechanics available to both them and the attackers, and without resorting to asking for mechanics changes that affected other people.

My lack of killboard presence doesn't mean that I don't understand the mechanics in play, which is what you appear to have assumed, nor does it mean that I can't have an opinion about the subject being discussed. I practice what I preach, hence I don't appear on any killboards; what part of that makes me unsuitable to give advice on how to protect yourself in EVE?

Nowhere, ever, have I told people how to PvP, it's outside of my Eve experience. When I post about PvP related topics I attempt to inform people on how to avoid it using the existing mechanics; if you actually bothered to read my posts instead of just assuming stuff you might actually understand that. In short I suck at PvP, however I don't suck at avoiding it.

Alternatively I could be on a do not gank list

What I object to is people lobbying CCP for the further nerfing of hisec PvP because they're too damn lazy or stuck in their, inherited from other games, ways, when it has always been possible to avoid PvP using the mechanics that are already there.

Wrong, try reading what I wrote, not what you think I wrote.

The pool of targets isn't shrinking, the methods of fishing in that pool are.

How is the removal of mechanics and tools not a nerf?

Nicely avoided Teflon Tony

That is not an answer to the question you were asked. Once again "Newbies going straight to nullsec has been going on for years without overly affecting the state of content in hisec, please explain how the rise of Pandemic Horde has suddenly changed the state of content in hisec?"

The announced change is simply pandering to those that can't be arsed to minimise the risk of it happening to them; upset, no, disappointed that CCP went down that particular route, yes.

Nowhere did I suggest that a Freighter pilot gank the Machariel because that's A: a stupid suggestion, and B: mechanically impossible. If you actually bothered to read my posts on the matter you'd know that my favoured solutions are being at the keyboard, scouts, webs, sensible cargo values and generally not being a stupid prat.

You should try following your own advice with reference to propaganda, I haven't seen a nerf the Skiff thread in months.

Did I say that you personally can't be bothered to be responsible for your own safety? No I did not, once again try reading what I wrote and not what you think I wrote.

As for your offer of having a pop, I offered you the same opportunity recently and you turned it down with some nonsense about how my playstyle supports what you do, I in turn shall refuse your offer with a much more straightforward answer, I don't do PvP.

Have I tuned my use of ASBs in real combat? Obviously not, because I don't do PvP.
Have I played around with alignment and traversal? Yes I have, those things aren't restricted to PvP and are useful in other areas of the game, even the PvE aspects.
Have I used the position of other players to put me in an advantageous position? Yes I have, see the comment immediately above.

Please feel free to expand upon your list of basic things that I'm apparently lacking.

Have I criticised people for not fighting when I don't fight myself? Nope, I've provided them with viable tactics and use of game mechanics to enable them to avoid fighting; what I have done is criticise them for not using the existing mechanics to their advantage.

I'll leave with you with the dictionary definition of a hypocrite, and a question.

Hypocrite
1. a person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess, especially a person whose actions belie stated beliefs.
2. a person who feigns some desirable or publicly approved attitude, especially one whose private life, opinions, or statements belie his or her public statements.

Where in my posting have I displayed the qualities listed in the definition of the word hypocrite, bear in mind that I openly admit to being a PvE focused player and not taking part in PvP if I can help it ?

I'll give you a hint, I haven't.

So you think that the mechanics to engage are shrinking but do not list any, I think that number of targets in hisec are shrinking and I can refer to CCP Fozzie saying that there was a reduction in hisec. I can refer to a war dec player saying that for the last 6-9 months no one fights back. I say that the new players are moving straight out of hisec and there is a knock on effect, refers to the size of PH for example. Come on open your eyes mate.

You ask when is the removal of mechanics and tools not a nerf, well lets take the watch list, it was not actually done to nerf hisec mercs, it was done because it was free and easy intel that stopped capital escalations and meant that people did not use their capitals, now they do. So while it has reduced the ability of a small subset of people that actually hunted large numbers of people, it did not affect the majority that pipe or hub camp, and it did not affect those doing targeted local war decs. Go and list all those removals of mechanics and tools that you keep saying exist, lets see them in black and white... And you say I avoid answering, lol.

So what is the counter to bumping, you are being bumped, what can you do, how can you stop the bumper, come on lets hear it? I can tell you what it is easily, you have a scout and you see a Blackbird and Macharial on the gate you just dock up and wait it out.

baltec1 did a nerf mining barge / exhumer rant just two weeks ago...

You said:



My suggestion was try to see if you can kill me, you don't do PvP hire some mercs then.

You are a hypocrite you criticise carebears for not doing PvP and avoiding it and yet you do not do it yourself.

What I am saying is that there was a change in that different entities made it policy to recruit new players and this meant that hisec did not get the fresh young players that were often a catalyst for engaging in terms of war decs. Remiel Pollard gave a good example of the type of player that is now heading directly to mull sec. I can only say this as a feeling as I don't have the data, but I have a feeling it is an important part of the lack of people prepared to fight in hisec wars.

The thread was in C&P https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=483651&find=unread

The CCP Fozzie statement I will have to dig around for, but I am not making that up. My recollection was that it was in an interview with Jeffraider, but locating it is proving tricky as he has done a number of them.

EDIT: Updated link