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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Support Carrier

Author
Gilgamesh Ma
Spanked and Straddled
Loose Affiliations
#1 - 2016-07-04 06:58:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Gilgamesh Ma
Since it is possible to have fighters in high sec via Citadels, could battleship support carriers possibly work?

Idea is to have a battleship size hull able to launch one squadron of light or support fighters.

Example for Gallente Version:

Ship Slots:
6 High Slots (4 Turrets)
5 Mid Slots
7 Low Slots

Gallente Battleship bonuses (per skill level):
2.5% bonus to Fighter damage.
.5% bonus to Armor Warfare and Skirmish Warfare Links effectiveness.

Role Bonus:
Can launch Light and Support Fighters
Can use 2 Warfare Link modules simultaneously .

PvP:
Can have an on field booster without having someone to multitask or risk using a neutral booster character. Also a good way for entry level carrier pilots to practice with fighters without having to pay the near 2B isk that carriers cost. The ability for battleship fleets to be able to engage frigates without being at a total disadvantage.

PvE:
I don't know, I don't PvE that often. Someone might help on this part.

What do you think?
Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2016-07-04 10:14:10 UTC
I think support cruisers are already quite powerful enough already to fill this role.
Saleya Blackheart
I've no Idea
#3 - 2016-07-04 10:24:08 UTC
Stop making highsec mission running even more efficient.
slumbers
Doomheim
#4 - 2016-07-04 10:47:36 UTC
Gilgamesh Ma wrote:
Since it is possible to have fighters in high sec via Citadels, could battleship support carriers possibly work?

Idea is to have a battleship size hull able to launch one squadron of light or support fighters.

What do you think?


It would be nice to see carriers able to launch 1 squadron of Heavy Fighters, but they are reserved for supers. So fighters are reserved for Carriers. Also, the mission running arguement is valid. Unless you want to elaborate on how would this be beneficial to the game , pve and pvp wise.

Do Little
Bluenose Trading
#5 - 2016-07-04 11:22:21 UTC
A T2 light fighter is roughly equivalent to an assault frigate - the ability to deploy a squadron of these seems a bit overpowered for a battleship in highsec!

For a Citadel it makes sense - smaller corporations won't have the personnel needed to field a defense fleet but should be able to defend their homes.

It wouldn't surprise me if CCP uses the new fighter mechanics for other drones at some point in the future.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#6 - 2016-07-04 18:05:59 UTC
You've always been able to put XL guns on a POS in highsec. Doesn't mean you should be able to have dreads there.

Citadel defences and ship fittings are DIFFERENT THINGS. I don't know if you're aware of that. You can't use a citadel to run missions or incursions, which is what I assume you want this ship for.
Gilgamesh Ma
Spanked and Straddled
Loose Affiliations
#7 - 2016-07-04 18:17:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Gilgamesh Ma
Danika Princip wrote:

Citadel defences and ship fittings are DIFFERENT THINGS. I don't know if you're aware of that. You can't use a citadel to run missions or incursions, which is what I assume you want this ship for.


I don't PvE so no, also updated with why this might be good for PvP.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#8 - 2016-07-04 19:22:42 UTC
Which is not an advantage at all. You already have on grid booster options if you want to use them.

And does not teach anyone how to use carriers.

Would you like the same 4000km engagement range a real carrier gets too?
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#9 - 2016-07-04 20:52:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Nevyn Auscent
1. You can have an on grid booster now, just use a command ship or T3, and don't fit it for max links.
2. BS need a lot of love before anything like this should be considered. For three examples of ways BS could be improved.

All BS need more EHP to justify their lack of mobility, with how close HAC's and the like can come to most BS in effective tank & EHP currently. (I'd advocate for more active tank for T1 BS also or at least more sustainable, but Marauders have enough active tank, passive shield regen should not increase)
Marauders should be allowed to move (but not warp) while in Bastion, since Bastion now does not stop points/scrams/webs landing there is no issue surrounding them using MJD while in Bastion or warping as soon as Bastion ends. This would then make them actually 'Marauders' able to move fast around a battlefield, and worthy of being a T2 BS.
Three races need an Ewar BS, Caldari need a 2nd Attack BS. This fills the real need of a support BS, which is to bring survivable Ewar to the field.

And you already have a significant range of Drone BS to chose from in various flavours.
Persephone IX
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2016-07-04 22:16:26 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
1. You can have an on grid booster now, just use a command ship or T3, and don't fit it for max links.
2. BS need a lot of love before anything like this should be considered. For three examples of ways BS could be improved.

All BS need more EHP to justify their lack of mobility, with how close HAC's and the like can come to most BS in effective tank & EHP currently. (I'd advocate for more active tank for T1 BS also or at least more sustainable, but Marauders have enough active tank, passive shield regen should not increase)
Marauders should be allowed to move (but not warp) while in Bastion, since Bastion now does not stop points/scrams/webs landing there is no issue surrounding them using MJD while in Bastion or warping as soon as Bastion ends. This would then make them actually 'Marauders' able to move fast around a battlefield, and worthy of being a T2 BS.
Three races need an Ewar BS, Caldari need a 2nd Attack BS. This fills the real need of a support BS, which is to bring survivable Ewar to the field.

And you already have a significant range of Drone BS to chose from in various flavours.



I dont think Battleships need more ehp, they can dish out a lot of dps and tank well enough. I consider the Battleship a class big enough to have some capital-esque traits to it. The limited range jump drive as people have proposed in the past will give the battleship a small pinch of awesome that it needs, as it is becoming less of a viable option for deployment. Obviously it should by no means approach blops capability. An idea would be to create a jump drive 'hangar' sort of speak, where players will have the added option to install 1 capital jump drive component, far less than the built-in 3 necessary for blackops. Once they opt for that, immediately they will lose turret slots and tank, but will be able to jump onto regular cynos. Jump range would be limited to 2.5-3 ly (one third of blops range), making it a local asset. And if players want to remove the jump drive, it will have to be destroyed, much like a rig.

Increasing ehp would make them extremely resilient, imagine a high grade slaved vindicator with moar ehp. Whereas a jump drive would add functionality to the BS class, people would be willing to use it frequently due to reduced cost, keeping the blops class for more tactical operations, as it can cloak without speed penalty and maintain its utility slots. I doubt such a move would threaten the BlackOps class, but even if people believed so, t2 resistances could be applied to them, keeping them by far superior in the hotdrop business.

CCP, Can I Haz My Stuff?

Elyia Suze Nagala
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2016-07-04 23:04:12 UTC
Gilgamesh Ma wrote:
Since it is possible to have fighters in high sec via Citadels, could battleship support carriers possibly work?

Idea is to have a battleship size hull able to launch one squadron of light or support fighters.

Example for Gallente Version:

Ship Slots:
6 High Slots (4 Turrets)
5 Mid Slots
7 Low Slots

Gallente Battleship bonuses (per skill level):
2.5% bonus to Fighter damage.
.5% bonus to Armor Warfare and Skirmish Warfare Links effectiveness.

Role Bonus:
Can launch Light and Support Fighters
Can use 2 Warfare Link modules simultaneously .

PvP:
Can have an on field booster without having someone to multitask or risk using a neutral booster character. Also a good way for entry level carrier pilots to practice with fighters without having to pay the near 2B isk that carriers cost. The ability for battleship fleets to be able to engage frigates without being at a total disadvantage.

PvE:
I don't know, I don't PvE that often. Someone might help on this part.

What do you think?



Ive long been a proponent of "Escort" (support) Carriers and "Tactical" Dreadnaughts. The idea I posed was make them more capable of engaging smaller targets and have them loose the ability to Triage and Siege. The capital reworking and the next modules pretty much removed any reason for such things.

However, I like seeing variety. I still think light versions of capitals would be cool, though perhaps redundant now.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#12 - 2016-07-04 23:28:55 UTC
Persephone IX wrote:


Increasing ehp would make them extremely resilient, imagine a high grade slaved vindicator with moar ehp.

And? It's just buffer, it's not going to change the rep rate in any way, so it buys them another 30% of time before they die, sometimes it will make a difference sure. But a lot of the time it won't, double the base EHP on a BS, (Obviously double the recharge time for shield). Now add plates/bulkheads/extenders like a real fit and tell me how much you've actually increased EHP on a buffer tank by. It's a nice change, but it's not the end of the world.
You are busy talking about 'BS are big enough to have some capitalish traits' yet don't want them to even have a fraction of the EHP? Your arguments are inconsistent. Especially since your method actually costs more than a BLops over time.
Persephone IX
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2016-07-05 06:38:16 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Persephone IX wrote:


Increasing ehp would make them extremely resilient, imagine a high grade slaved vindicator with moar ehp.

And? It's just buffer, it's not going to change the rep rate in any way, so it buys them another 30% of time before they die, sometimes it will make a difference sure. But a lot of the time it won't, double the base EHP on a BS, (Obviously double the recharge time for shield). Now add plates/bulkheads/extenders like a real fit and tell me how much you've actually increased EHP on a buffer tank by. It's a nice change, but it's not the end of the world.


All im saying is this. Buffing up Battleships wont change a thing, ok? Battleships will continue to be slow and less of a choice for players to field. Battleships got enough buffer as they are, they are just missing the t2 resists of hacs, etc.


Nevyn Auscent wrote:

You are busy talking about 'BS are big enough to have some capitalish traits' yet don't want them to even have a fraction of the EHP? Your arguments are inconsistent. Especially since your method actually costs more than a BLops over time.


Well if they acquire such a capability, you need away to counter the awesome.Jumping on top of somebody without any drawbacks on a BS dps would render blops useless.. Anyway The OP had a BS hull carrier idea , i was just building on it. Unless they come up with a T3 Battleship that can have subs for blopsing, a limited jump drive on BS class wouldnt be such a bad idea

CCP, Can I Haz My Stuff?

Elyia Suze Nagala
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2016-07-06 00:42:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Elyia Suze Nagala
Persephone IX wrote:
Well if they acquire such a capability, you need away to counter the awesome.Jumping on top of somebody without any drawbacks on a BS dps would render blops useless.. Anyway The OP had a BS hull carrier idea , i was just building on it. Unless they come up with a T3 Battleship that can have subs for blopsing, a limited jump drive on BS class wouldnt be such a bad idea


Tier 3 BS don't have T2 counter parts or faction variants for that matter. I'd be okay with seeing a T2 version of one of these with a limited range jump capability. No jump portal abilities of course, but the ability to travel with small capital groups or jump independently would be nice too see. Also no ship or fleet hangers or refitting services.

I'd assume theyd get additional bonuses like to damage and maybe to Statis Grapples or something.
Persephone IX
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2016-07-06 10:01:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Persephone IX
Elyia Suze Nagala wrote:


Tier 3 BS don't have T2 counter parts or faction variants for that matter. I'd be okay with seeing a T2 version of one of these with a limited range jump capability. No jump portal abilities of course, but the ability to travel with small capital groups or jump independently would be nice too see. Also no ship or fleet hangers or refitting services.

I'd assume theyd get additional bonuses like to damage and maybe to Statis Grapples or something.


Thats true, but tech 2 Tier 3 battleships would have to be inherently different from their Tier 1 and Tier 2 counterparts. One has a jump Drive, other has bastion mode. I dont really see a niche for Tier 3 Battleships. Unless they come up with a BS class t2 logistics boat that can jump and start giving reps, having t2 resistances built into the hull. That way you have a compromize between the two other classes, jump drive and resilience, question is whether such a class is necessary.

Nevertheless it does meet in a way OP's idea about a support BS hull Carrier, although without fighter capabilities, that would be too much. It would be a viable option for people that don't want to field Faux's, yet its cost would be a pinch higher than that of a marauder. It wont wipe out the logistic cruiser class, rather act as a defense multiplier.

The other option is to wait for Tech 3 Battleships if they ever become a reality.

CCP, Can I Haz My Stuff?