Crime & Punishment

Well some one is raking in because its been said that the enxt mom killing fleet is paying peeps 300 million again per pilot to kill the mother ship if rent payments stop

Yeah ibis' are more pro gamer territory, we'll stick to griefing incursions

Kisana Incursion still here..... feel free to visit :)

Yes, it does go somewhere else, but it takes more than 24 hours to do so.
Learn your isk faucet's mechanics before you fail post.

double post

Isnt there some PL fleet doctrine you should be trying to copy? Or some t3 you should be failfitting?

At the time the first incursions came, back when they were merely live events where Sansha drop ships were kidnapping people and Nightmare fleets were popping out of wormholes they controlled, I was ready to quit the game out of boredom. For me it was "Skill Queue Online and hope for a better day".

The live event incursions were epic. We even got to take down a Concord ship.

Prior to incursions, I would have sooner slammed my sack in a door than join a corp, but because of the live events I did join one that was in the FCORD alliance a semi RP endeavor geared toward fighting Sansha.

When Incursions became PVE content, it was still fun to take that level 4 mission drake up the ladder in combat sites solo trying hard to find out what worked and what did not, until it went down in flames at a point where the Sansha AI "decided" something along the lines of "enough playing with this ****, take this noob down". 4 hits. That's all it took.

With the Incursion PVE content the live events trailed off. And so has the fun.


PVE Incursions did not take long for the elitism to pick up. I watched this in local. We had some FCs we knew through the alliance and it did not matter who we picked up so long as they did their best. I seldom see them any more in the incursion channels, and some I know of have left the whole concept.

And this was because incursions went from being these epic live events to being "monetized" PVE content. Gone were the individuals with recognizable names, now replaced by strange handles that scream "Incursion ALT".

A letdown.

But the elitism was the worst. Incursions do not comprise PVE content for just about anybody. You need skills of course. You can solo up to a Raa Thalamus in a cruiser, I find, with a hefty challenge, but it's indeed group play PVE with fleet mechanics.

That's one thing, but after a little while, it seemed like a lot of players were shut out of this content. It's like you HAVE to have the uber-pimped shiney or your X-up is laughed at. It's one thing to tell something they don't have what you are looking for, it's another thing to be a richard about it, and the incursion channels were getting full of that.

We were getting T1 BS'es working with a few good logis but after a while it turned into a classic car club where if you didn't have the perfectly restored Mustang complete with the chalk marks on the firewall they left at the factory when putting the engine in, you were shut out. For a short time I tried to get noob fleets together for the low level sites just so they can dip their beaks in.

As usual, the "I have mine" syndrome perpetuates. Then comes the sense of entitlement.

Now let me point out, in every "why bother with 0.0" thread you see, it is obvious that a big turnoff is the control freakery of 0.0 space.

Incursions, and those who dominate them, have exhibited this. But 0.0 space is a free for all zone, and incursions are PVE content. So a regimentation and "organization" was built around incursions, PVE content, that mimicks the control-freakery, ISK-hoggery, and attitudes that keep players thinking twice about going to 0.0.

Epic live events have become that?

And what content allows us to string it along?
If you farm the heck out of a wormhole, it becomes somewhat devoid of site and you have to expand outwards or move on. Level 4 missions all come to an end, even those "bonanza" missions which never seem like they will end. Can sanctums be strung along? Even expeditions (exploration escalations) stop giving when you hit all stages.

Yet the Sansha mom appears, and it's not engaged, and it's farm farm farm away raking in the ISK. Something is not right here. I build combat courses for firearms training purposes and have had shooters "game" a course like this. You would think that the reward of taking down the mom would be enough, but there is a greater reward in NOT playing the game the way it was intended. This does not make sense.

I don't agree with the griefing concept that perpetuates into this mom-takedown endeavor. But I found a little something out about griefing yesterday: it's not what you do, it's how the intention of what you do is perceived. We had a lot of vile crap thrown at us in the chats and for what?

The Sansha mom is a perfectly legitimate PVE war target, the biggest fattest red plus you will find in high sec, inside a "room" that anybody can enter. Nobody's mission room is being trespassed on. Nobody's target is being stolen. When enough damage is being done to the incursion, the mom appears. That's how it works.

The "armor fleet" as it was called, was being deemed "illegal". By who? For what? I never thought that it would be possible to grief anybody with PVe content. No cans were flipped, no hulks were ganked, no gates were camped, no corps were robbed, and nobody was scammed. It feels like politics, and the incursion "incumbents" were acting the same way politicians act: as if we have to accept things their way even when their way is legal by fiat - meaning not legal at all, and then twisting the argument in such manner that people operating within the "laws" are the criminals.

The anti-mom fleet was like no other fleet I have been in. I was expecting "bait ball RR" tactics, but there was one mission: take that mother down. Anybody who has ever lacked the bones to be "allowed" into incursion fleets can gear up a T1 BS or even a BC, and join these mom takedown fleets. Nobody was asked to post their fit and be judged. And I will never forget how we had two, as I recall, lines of battleships, like an armored column, heading straight for the mom and swatting fighter-bombers aside on the way.

This was pure fun. And this is a game, we log into it to have fun.

I was there.

RMT didnt like the PROficiency at killing their money making activities. and now we have this.

You sort of believed being a 0.0 jerk had something to do with being in a 0.0 alliance.

It's the contrary. They are jerks by mentality, regardless of location. They just happen to have more cohercitive power in 0.0 because it's fully player controlled.




You don't seem to have understood the phenomenon.

They are NOT griefing T1 BS pilots, they are just manually correcting an hole "in the system" that lets efficient ISK farmers to make ungodly amount of money by NOT completing the event as it should (with the death of the boss).

It's possible that CCP will plug the hole by i.e. making it pointless to stay in there once the boss spawns (after killing it) but until that time, it's players who can do that.