These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Sov Warfare and the changes needed

Author
Gunnysfinest
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1 - 2016-07-03 08:36:59 UTC
My apologies if this is posted in the wrong area or if my spelling and grammar are appalling.


My alliance (Lethal intent) were one of many who seized and maintained Sov after Dominion sov was retired and while many of the early issues we found hard to deal with have been addressed i believe the underlying problem with the new sov system is the lack of risk associated by the aggressers compared to the defender.

The problem i see with the current Entosis mechanic is that no matter how high your ADM's are kept a time period of a few hours and a lone player can reinforce that system. Players in Eve don't wish to swat down t1 frigates and destroyers they wish to form fleets and have a fight and my propasal i hope addresses this:



The number of active Entosis ships on a single system should be increased based on the current ADM Eg. Level 1 requires one Entosis ship, level 2 requires 3 ships level 3 is 5 ships level 4 is 10 and 5 is 20. These are roughs numbers and could change but the idea is if you are owning sov and taking all the risks of living in Null the aggressor should have to commit to the system they wish to enforce.

This idea could be changed as well by perhaps as the ADMs go up the class of ship required to entosis can increase EG. level 1 frigates and destroyers with 5 being some form of capitals.


Sov is and has always been about working together with many different players to reap the rewards of owning Sov


Thanks for reading
Gunny


TL:Dr

Change current Entosis mechanics to a scaling amount of entosis links depending on the level of ADMs
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#2 - 2016-07-03 08:44:28 UTC
All you have to do is interrupt that T1's cycle once and chase them off. If they really are in a T1 frigate how do you need a fleet to fight them again? Or can you not take on a T1 frigate with a solo frig/destroyer killer built ship and just keep the rest of the corp/alliance on coms in case it's a cyno trap.

Also expect this to change in a couple of years with citadels and the like replacing entosis again so the big ships can come out to play.
Gunnysfinest
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3 - 2016-07-03 08:51:21 UTC
Well you don't need a fleet to stop a single ship but then again a single ship shouldn't be able to make a high ADM system vunerable, the idea is that the higher the ADMs the more ships the Aggressor should have to commit
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#4 - 2016-07-03 08:56:17 UTC
Why? A high ADM is meant to mean that you are living in that system. So you are sitting there watching them entosis it. It's not vulnerable all day, if it's a high ADM it's a mere three hours, which is 'meant' to be set to your peak. If you are setting it off peak to make it hard to get a large fleet together to attack it, then it's your problem if you can't cover it?
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#5 - 2016-07-03 10:13:38 UTC
ADM six gives a one hour cycle and a window of three hours.

5 is 3.5/50mins

4 is 4.5/40mins


If you can't put one random guy in another t1 frigate into a system in this time, after everyone gets the ping about the attack, then frankly you don't deserve the sov. Yes, it's an absolute ballache to deal with, but the fact that one guy can do it isn'r -really- the issue here.

Hell. If you can't stop one solo t1 frigate in an hour, how would you have stopped one solo nyx from smashing an old style ihub?
Gunnysfinest
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6 - 2016-07-03 10:31:06 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:


Hell. If you can't stop one solo t1 frigate in an hour, how would you have stopped one solo nyx from smashing an old style ihub?


And thats the difference why drop everything you are doing to kill a t1 frigate? before you needed to take the risk with the capitals and supers to take Sov. This suggestion is a middle ground that encourages fleets to form.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#7 - 2016-07-03 11:05:29 UTC
Gunnysfinest wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:


Hell. If you can't stop one solo t1 frigate in an hour, how would you have stopped one solo nyx from smashing an old style ihub?


And thats the difference why drop everything you are doing to kill a t1 frigate? before you needed to take the risk with the capitals and supers to take Sov. This suggestion is a middle ground that encourages fleets to form.



But if nobody is even checking the ping out to see what is hitting your sov, then you wouldn't have known it was a solo nyx either.

If someone IS checking it out, then why are they not dealing with the t1 frigate? Do your lot not fit guns to your interceptors?

One guy in an interceptor, or even a svipul, is hardly everyone dropping everything. You peaked at SEVEN systems according to dotlan, so you guys were basically the kind of group fozziesov was designed for.

If no-one can be bothered to check out an alliance wide notification in the space of an entire hour, then the problem is with the aliance, not the system. I've defended against these kinds of thing myself, solo, and it really isn't hard to get rid of one guy.
Roenok Baalnorn
Baalnorn Heavy Industries
#8 - 2016-07-03 12:16:10 UTC
We went from bashing POSes for sov, which actually fought back and you could sometime catch enemies trying to clear stuff out of, if not an actual fight, to TCU/SBU system which was even more boring, to the current system which is even more boring than the TCU/SBU system.

CCP has tried to make sov not such a grind but they went about it wrong. Sitting in a system while people run an entosis link is far less entertaining than bashing a pos which shoots back and no more entertaining that the SBU shuffle. The problem with POS sov is you played POS checkers. Grinding 200 POS for a region for a few weeks isnt fun either but it sure beats sitting there on standby while some play mind games with the TCU.

CCP wants to many conflicting things out of the sov system. Little guys to be able to take and hold sov, It to generate content. It not to be a grind to take the sov of one system, it to produce fights. But that is hard to do. The entire system needs redone in my opinion.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#9 - 2016-07-03 22:08:56 UTC
Roenok Baalnorn wrote:
The entire system needs redone in my opinion.

Yet no-one has come up with a better system that doesn't mean the old groups with hundreds of titans auto win.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#10 - 2016-07-03 23:26:41 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Roenok Baalnorn wrote:
The entire system needs redone in my opinion.

Yet no-one has come up with a better system that doesn't mean the old groups with hundreds of titans auto win.


...until a keepstar kills them..

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

James Zimmer
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2016-07-04 22:48:44 UTC
Personally, I think the current entosis mechanic is fine, however the current mindset of some alliances may have not adapted to deal with it yet. If the mindset is that PvP = FCs organizing fleets, complete with scouts, interdictors, logi, command dessies, DPS and maybe even some links and EWAR, the alliance may struggle. Good defense of sov may look more like a newbro noticing that someone is entosising something and trying to solo it in a Tristan, or a group of 5-6 miners who didn't want to be a part of that big fleet docking up, and bringing whatever PvP stuff they have sitting around because someone's got to defend the sov. It was designed specifically to encourage leadership and initiative at a lower level than a mainline FC.

The question is, are individual players willing to take the risk of getting in fight, and potentially getting dunked, without an experienced FC leading them?
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#12 - 2016-07-05 04:33:16 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
James Zimmer wrote:
The question is, are individual players willing to take the risk of getting in fight, and potentially getting dunked, without an experienced FC leading them?

Nope. Because if they don't follow "Standard Operating Procedure" (see: dock up until the threat has passed or a recognized FC takes charge) and get dunked... then they risk getting kicked out of the alliance for being "moronic scubs" (because by "feeding" the enemy kills, they have now encouraged the hostiles to come back).

I have found this mentality of "losses are not acceptable unless someone 'we know' is overseeing" to be extremely common and pervasive in most large alliances.
Elenahina
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2016-07-05 10:36:57 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
James Zimmer wrote:
The question is, are individual players willing to take the risk of getting in fight, and potentially getting dunked, without an experienced FC leading them?

Nope. Because if they don't follow "Standard Operating Procedure" (see: dock up until the threat has passed or a recognized FC takes charge) and get dunked... then they risk getting kicked out of the alliance for being a "moronic scub" (because by "feeding" the enemy kills, they have now encouraged the hostiles to come back).

I have found this mentality of "losses are not acceptable unless someone 'we know' is overseeing" to be extremely common and pervasive in most large alliances.


Mindset kills more PvP than mechanics ever will.

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno

Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#14 - 2016-07-05 16:56:30 UTC
Elenahina wrote:
Mindset kills more PvP than mechanics ever will.



Not Emptyquoting.