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[Proposal] Get rid of learning implants.
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Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#321 - 2012-01-03 03:50:30 UTC
J Kunjeh wrote:
Mars Theran wrote:

I think the point is that Learning implants tend to restrict gameplay. One person may only need one clone if all they had were standard hardwirings to worry about, and for those that PvP, they are at an unfair disadvantage when compared with those that do not.

Overall, Learning implants, or the requirement for them, inhibit gameplay and prevent players from taking risks they might otherwise. Either you sacrifice training times to do what you want, or you sacrifice the ability to do so without podding clones that aren't intended for that purpose.


I agree, which is why I think we should also do away with skilling entirely and give everyone Level V skills on everything from day one. Pesky skill training restricts my game play.


Uneccessary sarcasm. Also out of context.

This isn't about training skills. It's about everyone having unrestricted training times and-importantly-alternative options for implants, while being able to play where-ever they may be, without having to worry about clone-jumping to Jita and flying 40 jumps into 0.0 just to get in a battle.

Alternative example, clone-jumping to Jita and 2-1/2 hours later finding out your Corpmates need you in Stain to help them fight off an offensive by a Rival corp, and you in your civies.

Another example: Playing for 6 months as a Pirate in Delve, while running basic hardwirings and having 19 and 20 respectively, in your current primary attributes. With Pod-a-day podding, who's going to fit 300 Million ISK in implants?
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Velin Dhal
Zeonic CG
#322 - 2012-01-03 08:32:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Velin Dhal
Mars Theran wrote:
J Kunjeh wrote:
Mars Theran wrote:

I think the point is that Learning implants tend to restrict gameplay. One person may only need one clone if all they had were standard hardwirings to worry about, and for those that PvP, they are at an unfair disadvantage when compared with those that do not.

Overall, Learning implants, or the requirement for them, inhibit gameplay and prevent players from taking risks they might otherwise. Either you sacrifice training times to do what you want, or you sacrifice the ability to do so without podding clones that aren't intended for that purpose.


I agree, which is why I think we should also do away with skilling entirely and give everyone Level V skills on everything from day one. Pesky skill training restricts my game play.


Uneccessary sarcasm. Also out of context.

This isn't about training skills. It's about everyone having unrestricted training times and-importantly-alternative options for implants, while being able to play where-ever they may be, without having to worry about clone-jumping to Jita and flying 40 jumps into 0.0 just to get in a battle.

Alternative example, clone-jumping to Jita and 2-1/2 hours later finding out your Corpmates need you in Stain to help them fight off an offensive by a Rival corp, and you in your civies.

Another example: Playing for 6 months as a Pirate in Delve, while running basic hardwirings and having 19 and 20 respectively, in your current primary attributes. With Pod-a-day podding, who's going to fit 300 Million ISK in implants?



If your going to 0.0, then be smart about it. Don't go flying around in your most expensive clone when you know your going to possibly get podded. Simple.

This post is straying horribly from what is best for new players to what is best for people in 0.0 who are upset because they choose to be there.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#323 - 2012-01-03 09:48:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
Velin Dhal wrote:
If your going to 0.0, then be smart about it. Don't go flying around in your most expensive clone when you know your going to possibly get podded. Simple.

This post is straying horribly from what is best for new players to what is best for people in 0.0 who are upset because they choose to be there.


this risk/reward argument falls apart pretty quick when you realize that 0.0 has become a desert with so many moving to high-sec to pull 100M+ per hour with incursions (something which you /cannot/ do with anoms post-nerf)

so get out of here with that risk/reward argument, you know it's bullshit

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
J Kunjeh
#324 - 2012-01-03 14:19:34 UTC
Mars Theran wrote:
J Kunjeh wrote:
Mars Theran wrote:

I think the point is that Learning implants tend to restrict gameplay. One person may only need one clone if all they had were standard hardwirings to worry about, and for those that PvP, they are at an unfair disadvantage when compared with those that do not.

Overall, Learning implants, or the requirement for them, inhibit gameplay and prevent players from taking risks they might otherwise. Either you sacrifice training times to do what you want, or you sacrifice the ability to do so without podding clones that aren't intended for that purpose.


I agree, which is why I think we should also do away with skilling entirely and give everyone Level V skills on everything from day one. Pesky skill training restricts my game play.


Uneccessary sarcasm. Also out of context.

This isn't about training skills. It's about everyone having unrestricted training times and-importantly-alternative options for implants, while being able to play where-ever they may be, without having to worry about clone-jumping to Jita and flying 40 jumps into 0.0 just to get in a battle.

Alternative example, clone-jumping to Jita and 2-1/2 hours later finding out your Corpmates need you in Stain to help them fight off an offensive by a Rival corp, and you in your civies.

Another example: Playing for 6 months as a Pirate in Delve, while running basic hardwirings and having 19 and 20 respectively, in your current primary attributes. With Pod-a-day podding, who's going to fit 300 Million ISK in implants?


So you're the arbiter of what is and is not appropriate sarcasm? Puleeez.

If you don't want to lose your implants, don't use them...simple. Stop whining, there is no need to remove learning implants. They add meaningful choice to the game, which is a GOOD thing.

"The world as we know it came about through an anomaly (anomou)" (The Gospel of Philip, 1-5) 
Disdaine
#325 - 2012-01-07 11:43:19 UTC
Eve is a game of consequences, if plugging in +5's limits your playstyle because you're risk averse then don't plug them in.

Risk vs reward.

Do not support.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#326 - 2012-01-07 15:37:00 UTC
Disdaine wrote:
Eve is a game of consequences, if plugging in +5's limits your playstyle because you're risk averse then don't plug them in.

Risk vs reward.

Do not support.


tell me more about risk aversion, NPC corp forum alt poster

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Tallianna Avenkarde
Pyre of Gods
#327 - 2012-01-08 05:31:24 UTC
Support for the idea of getting more people into

against because as others have pointed out, they are both an isk sink, and something shiny on killmails for people to gloat over.

In fact, i fully support, because I believe the removal of learning implant will justify more people to actually use hardwirings, which would fill the isk sink/podmail gap.

And a sudden plunge in the sullen swell. Ten fathoms deep on the road to hell.
Disdaine
#328 - 2012-01-08 05:40:21 UTC
Andski wrote:

tell me more about risk aversion, NPC corp forum alt poster


Are you suggesting there's a risk in posting with my main?

You and your friends gonna dec me?

Risky.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#329 - 2012-01-08 05:42:48 UTC
Disdaine wrote:
Andski wrote:

tell me more about risk aversion, NPC corp forum alt poster


Are you suggesting there's a risk in posting with my main?

You and your friends gonna dec me?

Risky.


No, but by posting with an alt you're showing an aversion to a perceived risk, regardless of its existence.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Disdaine
#330 - 2012-01-08 05:56:10 UTC
Andski wrote:

No, but by posting with an alt you're showing an aversion to a perceived risk, regardless of its existence.


So by posting with an alt I'm minimising potential risk?

If only there was a risk minimising mechanic for implants.

Something like jump clones or not flying, oops, I meant not wearing what you can't afford to lose.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#331 - 2012-01-08 05:57:46 UTC
Disdaine wrote:
Andski wrote:

No, but by posting with an alt you're showing an aversion to a perceived risk, regardless of its existence.


So by posting with an alt I'm minimising potential risk?

If only there was a risk minimising mechanic for implants.

Something like jump clones or not flying, oops, I meant not wearing what you can't afford to lose.


lol you're dumb, all of this was discussed, go roll another NPC corp alt and perhaps put it in a vanity alliance along with the monocle lmao

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Disdaine
#332 - 2012-01-08 06:28:34 UTC
Andski wrote:

lol you're dumb, all of this was discussed, go roll another NPC corp alt and perhaps put it in a vanity alliance along with the monocle lmao

Don't be like that broski.
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#333 - 2012-01-08 07:16:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Asuka Solo
Not supporting and obvious Mittens troll backed by remunerated test-goon slave and pet labor.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#334 - 2012-01-08 07:21:06 UTC
Asuka Solo wrote:
Not supporting and obvious Mittens troll backed by remunerated test-goon slave and pet labor.


i wish i was a ~free spirit~ like you

oh wait, no, i don't want to be a peasant lmao

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Pietr Serras
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#335 - 2012-01-08 08:14:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Pietr Serras
Andski wrote:
Asuka Solo wrote:
Not supporting and obvious Mittens troll backed by remunerated test-goon slave and pet labor.


i wish i was a ~free spirit~ like you

oh wait, no, i don't want to be a peasant lmao


lolwut?
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#336 - 2012-01-08 09:36:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Mars Theran
J Kunjeh wrote:
Mars Theran wrote:
J Kunjeh wrote:
Mars Theran wrote:

I think the point is that Learning implants tend to restrict gameplay. One person may only need one clone if all they had were standard hardwirings to worry about, and for those that PvP, they are at an unfair disadvantage when compared with those that do not.

Overall, Learning implants, or the requirement for them, inhibit gameplay and prevent players from taking risks they might otherwise. Either you sacrifice training times to do what you want, or you sacrifice the ability to do so without podding clones that aren't intended for that purpose.


I agree, which is why I think we should also do away with skilling entirely and give everyone Level V skills on everything from day one. Pesky skill training restricts my game play.


Uneccessary sarcasm. Also out of context.

This isn't about training skills. It's about everyone having unrestricted training times and-importantly-alternative options for implants, while being able to play where-ever they may be, without having to worry about clone-jumping to Jita and flying 40 jumps into 0.0 just to get in a battle.

Alternative example, clone-jumping to Jita and 2-1/2 hours later finding out your Corpmates need you in Stain to help them fight off an offensive by a Rival corp, and you in your civies.

Another example: Playing for 6 months as a Pirate in Delve, while running basic hardwirings and having 19 and 20 respectively, in your current primary attributes. With Pod-a-day podding, who's going to fit 300 Million ISK in implants?


So you're the arbiter of what is and is not appropriate sarcasm? Puleeez.

If you don't want to lose your implants, don't use them...simple. Stop whining, there is no need to remove learning implants. They add meaningful choice to the game, which is a GOOD thing.


In relation to my posts, yes.

I use them and lose them, because I cannot afford to leave them out of my training regimen on the off-chance I'll get podded. That also means I don't generally take much in the way of risk in many cases; choosing instead, to stay in a POS shield, sit on a station, stick to highsec lanes, or not go anywhere without much intel.

Unfortunately, there are times I have not had the ability to mitigate risk to to circumstances, and then I usually have ended up taking a Billion ISK chance, including ship, fit, and implants getting my ass somewhere safe. Sure, I could have stayed in, but I really had to gtfo. WH's drive you nuts, and sometimes, 5 jumps to an exit 15 jumps into 0.0 is better than staying in one.

Frankly, I don't do that-wormholes-anymore, and I've gotten rid of that character, but it hasn't stopped me from considering that one less risk amongst all of them, would make this game a little easier to play.

Implants on killboards though; wow, that's more points for pods. Heck, that's gotta make a podkill worth as much as a faction BS now, in some cases. Awesome dude.

I'm sure someone's thinking that out there; even if they won't admit it.

Fact is, you don't really have a valid reason for arguing changes like this, or many others. It's not a mechanics issue, it's only mildly impacting on the economy, and it isn't really neccessary after the removal of static attributes, and introduction of remaps.

Lots of other things impact the economy, give more to make ISK off of, create dynamic change in much more noticeable fashion; and with only a few exceptions, nobody says anything about them, except maybe, "I want Moar!!"

edit: Also, I'm not out in 0.0, and have nothing to do with it yet, nor have I, wormholes aside. I just take the time to consider others before I formulate a response to many threads and posts within them.

post-edit: ..and meaningful choice, is not taking a Battleship fit with faction mods into 0.0 solo, when you really could.
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
Neo160
Bare Minimum Bandits
I Showed You My Probes... Please Respond...
#337 - 2012-01-14 22:15:28 UTC
i could say lots of stuff about how restrictive learning implants are, but since most of you have already thoroughly and effectively explained that, I'll just say this:

+1
Ms Twitch
Brittas Empire
Pandemic Horde
#338 - 2012-01-15 17:10:42 UTC
Let me see, the number of goons or friends of goons answering, they are obviously told there stupid mindless hoard that they needed to post.

I disagree about removing implants, it allow options.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#339 - 2012-01-15 19:39:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
Ms Twitch wrote:
Let me see, the number of goons or friends of goons answering, they are obviously told there stupid mindless hoard that they needed to post.

I disagree about removing implants, it allow options.


look how dumb and mad you are!!!!

thanks for branch btw m8

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#340 - 2012-01-15 22:34:27 UTC
Andski wrote:
Disdaine wrote:
Eve is a game of consequences, if plugging in +5's limits your playstyle because you're risk averse then don't plug them in.

Risk vs reward.

Do not support.


tell me more about risk aversion, NPC corp forum alt poster

ban npc forum alts from csm forums

o/'\o