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AFK Cloaking™: Ideas, Discussion, and Proposals

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Logan Jakal
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6261 - 2016-07-02 22:50:50 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Logan Jakal wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Logan Jakal wrote:


The only moment I was wrong was when I believed that you were able to understand the matter with cloaking (that I am not the only one to point here tho).


That and your complete inability to grasp that local is a key to the success of AFK cloaking.


Dude, I don't even know if yourself are believing the massive BS you are saying.


Again, how do you know a cloaking ship is in system? How? What tells you he is there if not local. No local and you'd have zero evidence he is there.

This is BS it is just very, very simple logic. No local, no AFK camping with cloaking ships...or the effect is nil.


I'm not even gonna answer your BS, I answered this question 5 times since I am on this thread, sort your deafness, there is nothing more I can say.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#6262 - 2016-07-02 22:51:38 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Maria Dragoon wrote:
Logan Jakal wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Logan Jakal wrote:


The only moment I was wrong was when I believed that you were able to understand the matter with cloaking (that I am not the only one to point here tho).


That and your complete inability to grasp that local is a key to the success of AFK cloaking.


Dude, I don't even know if yourself are believing the massive BS you are saying.



What massive amount of BS? What he says is true, the only format an AFK cloaker is having any interaction with you is the fact that their name pops up in the local list. If they are AFK, then they can't do anything. If they are doing something while afk, well then they are a bot and thus be reported as such. Simple as that.


They are interacting with people in game while AFK, because there is no way to know if they are AFK, so the AFK flag which I have proposed will deal with that.


Once again free intel is bad, mkay.

Yes, yes I know you want to use the OA as the basis of the intel. But here is the thing, unless the OA is like a tower and needs fuel then the marginal cost is essentially zero and thus the optimal price is also zero (optimal pricing is marginal cost = marginal revenue which in this case is zero).

Any intel should be the result of player effort, and if Bob anchors the OA, and I start using its intel it literally cost me nothing.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#6263 - 2016-07-02 22:57:05 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Logan Jakal wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Logan Jakal wrote:


The only moment I was wrong was when I believed that you were able to understand the matter with cloaking (that I am not the only one to point here tho).


That and your complete inability to grasp that local is a key to the success of AFK cloaking.


Dude, I don't even know if yourself are believing the massive BS you are saying.


Teckos Pech haunts this thread for some reason, pretty sad to be honest, and its the same bull all the time. Notice how easily he slips into insult mode and circular logic. He is a HTFU troll that wants to prevent any changes to this gameplay.

I do not want any changes to cloaks, I do not want fuel required either, however my preferred option is an AFK flag which is dependent on the use of a Observatory Structure which sits behind the one that you have to give local in 0.0. In other areas this structure will sit behind the local offered by the NPC that controls the area. In terms of other structures which de-cloak them with a spool up and significant initialisation timer or enable a probe to locate them I would support them too.

When I was in 0.0 my focus was hunting and killing these people and rubbing their noses in it.

The changes to the watch list to a buddy list have changed things even more, because the trick wa to identify the actual droppers and have them on your watch list, so you could operate and as soon as they logged on you got safe. That has gone, now where is the balance against the loss of that intel in terms fo the game, CCP have failed to give something back for that loss of very important intel which helped in negating the affects of this lame tactic.

People here are trying to get local removed, as if that makes any difference to this, all it does is gives them easier kills. I am now going to say something which I know they will use against me, I have opposed ganking in hisec in play and also in trying to get some of the advantages removed, AFK cloaky camping to drop a BLOPS gang on a single ratter is totally akin to ganking in hisec. It is a perfect execution style attack which is very difficult to oppose, just like freighter ganking in hisec. Both can be done, but require a massive investment in time or effort. A real life military would make an effort on this, but we are talking about a game here, which means that in hisec 0.0 alliances are moving Fortizers in freighters without any fleet to deal with the gankers, which means that in 0.0 these people prey on people outside the main TZ's and have a psychological effect on the real very high risk of being hot dropped.

Local does not matter in WH's because there is whole control, the only real risk is missing something coming in when inactive and of course logoffskis.

These people who try to downplay the destructive impact on the game of AFK gameplay are the worst of the worst in my opinion and all get an A+ in being hypocrites.


I thought you didn't insult people. Well now we know you are a liar along with being a passive aggressive wienie.

The watch list was again, free intel. Aside from the initial cost you paid nothing after that.

And you are wrong on the worm holes too. You can go back an read the comments by the w-space guys, but I doubt you will because you are bad.

Lastly, your characterization of my position is simply flat out wrong. You are speaking out ignorance. You could not articulate my position if your life literally depended on it.

Real life military....holy crap...dude this is a game. Roll

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#6264 - 2016-07-02 23:06:44 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
I am referring to another person who seems to have made this thread his personal property, it would be rather interesting to do a post count on that person. Just an amused observation, Mr Troll seems to be following me around in other threads by the way.

Well people go get safe in a station or Citadel or POS shield, well in a POS you can see them there, in NPC 0.0 you can dock up to check up if they are there. In Sov 0.0 you of course cannot, but that is because they took the time to conquer it and hold the space, I guess they should have some reward for that. A small gang can't do anything against that, well yes whats wrong with that, if you want to kill them get more friends.

Then we sort of agree in terms of the structures, I want a whole new cat and mouse and space conflict around these structures, but I don't want them just hacked by some lame mini game, I want them hacked by a specific structure that needs to be setup to do just that. You ideas on structures resonates with me quite well, excellent ideas and I hope CCP listens to you on them.

Is it wrong that people who own the system and took it have that ability? The use of BLOPS is very powerful if properly done, it will close down use of any system outside of the main TZ and depending on who is doing the dropping even the main TZ. At that point they might as well just take the system... I have hunted cloakers, and been hunted by them, one guy who was a top killer in and a legend with other Russians in Stain decided to hunt me, turned up in his Legion in the system I was belt ratting. So I waited about ten minutes then changed system, an hour later he came into my system, rinse repeat 30 times, then he went elsewhere. A top killer who relied on people thinking he was AFK, well well so much work on his part. People have interceptors that are immune to bubbles, there is always logoffskis. I ratted in a carrier but refused to use sentries because I could not align, during that period so many Carriers died it was silly, I did not... It was an attitude of mind, I am not one of these people who whines because I can. I have setup to kill BLOPS and know how difficult it is in reality and people who say just counter drop them, often had no idea who long people like me worked to kill them.

I can kill campers who do something who are ATK I cannot kill those who are AFK, I do not want to waste my time baiting out people who are AFK, this is my reason for asking for an AFK flag. I no longer do this because I am totally bored having done so much baiting of people who are either asleep, shagging the wife or at work. That is not fun period, which is why I am not happy with the current state of affairs. I am against reducing the value of the cloak, I don't want fuel, I am also not happy with a decloak system either as other people have asked, but would accept it because I could now hunt and kill that plonker who is AFK. Your example of a BR is something that I do and that is a reason I agree with you on decloaking, it is not optimal at all for gameplay. But you also get the intel on local at the moment, going foward you will not, bear that in mind...

Control of local should go to the person who owns that system and who has put the infrastructure in place, which is what CCP are going to do in Sov 0.0 You have the opinion that people want local and a way to remove cloakers cloak, I see people wanting to remove local and leave in all the information that enable them to find active people. My narrow focus is purely on the act of interacting with people who are AFK, which I detest. If I had my way local would require structures, all that free intel on the map and Dotlan would be gone period.

People in WH's for example watch their holes, they used their watch list to check if that person they spotted was on or not, they could then work out the risk, having seen what he was in. No cyno's means no unknown drops, of course you have logoffskis's. But the thing is that the WH player has now to check the WH chain, to see just what could come in, so if they have a chain to a major WH group then they know that using their ratting ships would not go well. Compare that to 0.0 and lowsec, you cannot control that, so local balances up against that.

I just want to repeat what my issue is, I hate the AFK part of it period and that is what I would prefer is dealt with.



Wow that is alot of nonsense for one person to write.

Look, both local and AFK cloaking need to go. Players should be able to "claw" back the benefits of local via the Observatory Array. However, it should not simply give back local as it is "too good". Intel should be based on player effort not just some structure one anchors.

I'd also like to see the structure vulnerable not only to attack, but also some sort of subversion. That is when subverted (where there is a chance of both failure and success) the person(s) subverting the OA get some sort of benefit, such as appearing as blue, not appearing on intel reports or some such.

At the same time cloaked ships should be vulnerable to probing. Maybe not as vulnerable as an uncloaked/non-cloaking ship (i.e. it will take longer to scan them down--after all cloaks should provide some benefit even against probes IMO), but vulnerable enough so that AFK cloaking is no longer a viable strategy.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#6265 - 2016-07-02 23:08:23 UTC
Logan Jakal wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Logan Jakal wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Logan Jakal wrote:


The only moment I was wrong was when I believed that you were able to understand the matter with cloaking (that I am not the only one to point here tho).


That and your complete inability to grasp that local is a key to the success of AFK cloaking.


Dude, I don't even know if yourself are believing the massive BS you are saying.


Again, how do you know a cloaking ship is in system? How? What tells you he is there if not local. No local and you'd have zero evidence he is there.

This is BS it is just very, very simple logic. No local, no AFK camping with cloaking ships...or the effect is nil.


I'm not even gonna answer your BS, I answered this question 5 times since I am on this thread, sort your deafness, there is nothing more I can say.


No, you have not. The answer is obvious though. You use local to determine that there is a hostile cloaked in system. There is no other way to do it currently.

But you are right, there is nothing more you can say because you are obstinately insisting on being deliberately obtuse.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#6266 - 2016-07-02 23:11:07 UTC
Logan Jakal wrote:
Maria Dragoon wrote:
Logan Jakal wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
As I keep saying my issue is with the AFK part which an AFK flag will deal with, I hate wasting time baiting people who are asleep


Well, an AFK flag could be a solution to trap these people at their own filthy game, but I still want a real way to counter them such as probes or a citadel module to uncloak campers. For exemple, what just happened in one of my systems is that we got hotdroped us. Precisely, he was connected from the downtime, until the hotdrop that happened like 10 minutes ago. Problem is, you don't know if he's in from on the keyboard or AFK shower/work/bumping the wife (erase unused mentions). Yet, he was cosy at his bookmark, and had all the necessary time to check one by one the different anomalies, thanks to his beautiful Covert Ops cloaking device.

Why ? Well, because the cloaking system is ******** AF, nothing more, nothing less.



If you want the ability to produce probes that forces people out of cloaks, then I want an ability to force people out of stations or citadels or stations that don't require an entire fleet to destroy said structure.

But hey, you already have millions of ways to capture and kill cloakers, while cloakers has only a limited number of solutions to make targets pop up and get them out of hiding. Most of them sadly involve going afk to make local lie


No.

You want to hunt people in their own soves ? Well, deal with the fact that they can dock, they are in their territory after all. If you want them to pick the fight, grow some balls and fight them in daylight, I never use cloaking device, it would make me feel dirty.


I find this so amusing and pathetic at the same time. Talk about wanting your cake and eating it too.

Also, you can always tell when somebody does not understand balance...it is obvious when you notice that all of the changes they suggest work in their favor, not against it. That isn't balanced it is called lobbying....as in lobbying for special favors and privileges.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Logan Jakal
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6267 - 2016-07-02 23:23:28 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
I find this so amusing and pathetic at the same time. Talk about wanting your cake and eating it too.

Also, you can always tell when somebody does not understand balance...it is obvious when you notice that all of the changes they suggest work in their favor, not against it. That isn't balanced it is called lobbying....as in lobbying for special favors and privileges.


You (and maria Dragoon) make reference to something that isn't even closely related to cloaking. To be honest, I really don't understand why you two are complaining. You seem to be the kind of people that just can't deal with the fact to see someone escaping or not wanting to take a fight they have little to no chance of winning. When I go roaming in solo, I have no problem with people getting to dock, I mean, I am also glad to dock when in my sov, so I don't complain about it, it's the game, but you seem to have an obsession about this. Let's be honest, if you are ratting, and you see a spike of 3-4 neutrals or red, you are also going to dock like a little sissy, despite the fact you are bombing the chest on that thread.

There are plenty of ways to trap players when you are hunting in a sov or even in low-sec, yet, there is no way to counter someone staying cloaked on a bookmark, waiting for the best moment to attack. So yes, the hunter deserves advantages, but the pray also deserves a chance to become the hunter, and this is not yet the case, like it or not (I've seen on your KB that you like cloaky ships), cloaking is unbalanced.


Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#6268 - 2016-07-02 23:28:52 UTC
Maria Dragoon wrote:
Logan Jakal wrote:
Maria Dragoon wrote:


Let me correct you on something. Null sec is lawless section of space, if you want laws then you are going to enforce them yourself, if you don't want that cloaker in your system then you should of had better defenses. Simple-As-That.


Better defense against what ? A sissy that can't neither be probed nor DScanned ? That will not show up unless he's got 100% chances to get a kill without any risk ? That is certainly sitting on a bookmark ?

Dude, sort the **** in your head, your post is nonsense BS.



Nonsense? Why dear reader, May I point out that the only one being a sissy is you.

You are afraid of a heavily gimped ship that may have the possability of killing you if you solo-mine or solo-rat without being PVP equipped.

Dear Reader, you fail to take into account that even a small pvp fitted fleet is enough to scare off a heavily combat gimped ship. Thus they won't attack you.

Dear reader, the only one being a sissy is you.

There are hundreds of way to trap, bait, or capture cloaking vessels, use your imagination, or go back to high sec.


I have already made this point many many times. 5 guys in PvP fit ishtars in a fleet will, with high probability, dissuade even the largest of BLOPs gangs. Those ishtars should be able to alpha bombers right off the field. And if somebody fits a point and catches the BLOPS if it attempts to join in on the expected surprise butt sex...well...he maybe the guy getting the surprise butt sex.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#6269 - 2016-07-02 23:45:04 UTC
Logan Jakal wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
I find this so amusing and pathetic at the same time. Talk about wanting your cake and eating it too.

Also, you can always tell when somebody does not understand balance...it is obvious when you notice that all of the changes they suggest work in their favor, not against it. That isn't balanced it is called lobbying....as in lobbying for special favors and privileges.


You (and maria Dragoon) make reference to something that isn't even closely related to cloaking. To be honest, I really don't understand why you two are complaining. You seem to be the kind of people that just can't deal with the fact to see someone escaping or not wanting to take a fight they have little to no chance of winning. When I go roaming in solo, I have no problem with people getting to dock, I mean, I am also glad to dock when in my sov, so I don't complain about it, it's the game, but you seem to have an obsession about this. Let's be honest, if you are ratting, and you see a spike of 3-4 neutrals or red, you are also going to dock like a little sissy, despite the fact you are bombing the chest on that thread.

There are plenty of ways to trap players when you are hunting in a sov or even in low-sec, yet, there is no way to counter someone staying cloaked on a bookmark, waiting for the best moment to attack. So yes, the hunter deserves advantages, but the pray also deserves a chance to become the hunter, and this is not yet the case, like it or not (I've seen on your KB that you like cloaky ships), cloaking is unbalanced.




Again, so much nonsense.

First, yes I have been using cloaking ships...because the FC have been calling for cloaking ships. So, this is really off topic for this thread as it is not AFK cloaking. Second, we engage people in systems where they have 4-5x as many people as us. They just suck at doing things to trap people and wipe us out.

As for a person sitting at a safe waiting for the perfect kill, it is not that simple. You present it like it is an "I win" button" when it is not. Second, if you see a guy in local, you are pretty damn sure he is cloaked and you go out ratting....well that is a bad strategy. You are very vulnerable when you are alone in NS. This is why there are standing fleets. This is why there are voice comms. This is why you can rat in a group.

And no, if I were ratting in a system with 4 buddies and we were in PvP fit isthars and local went up by 3-4 hostiles...no I would not run for the dock. I'd align out, have everyone else align out and wait and see what lands. If I think we could take them, I'd engage, if not, spam warp out.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#6270 - 2016-07-03 07:30:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
There is one person who seems to focus on AFK cloaky camping and it is Teckos Pech. You have made little cracks little insults you call people moron, I reply to aggression with aggression, you are a complete moron. So I only insult people who insult me and others, as you said passive aggressive, for me its show respect, but once they prove to me that they have no respect for others then I treat them as they treat others.

As I said it is not free intel because I am pushing for it to requite a structure, it also sits behind the structure that will give local to the system. That is not free, the campers can go and shoot it if they wanted, if they have the ability of course, you cry because you cannot.

5 Ishtars, what a joke, dissaude the largest BLOPS gang, what the hell are you smoking...

And you go off and say the issue is local, no the issue is that someone is interacting with people while at work, shagging the wife or asleep.

The act of subverting the structure is for weak people like yourself, you need to downgrade their defences by blowing it up, its not that hard..., perhaps it is for you, yes it is too hard for you.

Also my point on real life military was because that is Eve was a game, you just repeated what I said to make a point against me but used what I said, another cretinous comment by you, no surprise there.

I used to think that Jenn a'Snide oh I am a god at PvE was the most pathetic troll on the Eve forums, you are neck and neck with him, and I really did not think that was possible.... Shocked

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#6271 - 2016-07-03 07:55:26 UTC
Maria Dragoon wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


As I keep saying my issue is with the AFK part which an AFK flag will deal with, I hate wasting time baiting people who are asleep, shagging the wife or at work and I don't believe that this is good gameplay at all and I am asking CCP to put an AFK flag on them so I can actually work out when they are asleep, shagging the wife or at work quicker and therefore only do hunting of their sorry asses when they are ATK. Do you get it, or was that too difficult to get.


I removed the useless information of the post and will now focus on this.

AFK flags are terrible for a number of reasons: First they will be abused hell and back by alliances that want perfect safety.

Honestly I think you have a really thick skull, because you seem to only care about your perspective on things. The reason why most cloakers go afk or make themselves look afk is because the perfect local intel system scares off any targets,

So
We
Must
Make
Local
Lie

I know you have trouble understanding simple concepts but let me spell it out for you, seeing for someone who so big about waving around their supposed Experienced E-peen, you seem to have a total lack of understanding on why AFK cloaking been around for as long as it has.

Local ---Forces ----Us ----to --- waste ---time-----To-----Make----Targets-----Appear.

So in basic concept of balance, you must waste time to figure out when the cloaker is in ATK phase, it actually a pretty easy concept to understand.
Quote:
Do you get it, or was that too difficult (for you)to get(Understand)?


Yes remove the most important part in terms of threat, what a surprise, the cyno and the hot drop...

AFK flags remove the waste of time of baiting these people when they are AFK, it will downgrade the effectiveness of this lame tactic without destroying cloaks. So you get it at least a little bit, slow hand clap, miracles never cease, really it is not rocket science.

Local is a balance against the use of cyno's, that is why people like you want Local removed or downgraded. There is nothing wrong with local while you have offensive cyno's, now if at the same time we remove the instant jump of cyno's and make it only work after two minutes of lighting it then perhaps that would be a better balance.

You are a simple minded person who want an easy game with easy kills, and all your attempts to talk in baby talk make you look like a fool. I have a different point of view from you, and trying to call it simple minded is what most dishonest people do, they attack the people rather than the ideas, you say for example AFK flags are terrible for a numbr of reasons but then you give no reasons, typical of people like you.

The other troll says its free intel when if it is based on a structure it is not. So every time you and him slip into insults and rubbish like taht and talk around it, say it is bad but offer no reasons it shows you up for what you are.

All that free intel on NPC kills in the last hour and people in system enables people to find targets easy. You have interceptors that are immune to bubbles and are fast warping, but instead you rely on parking your butt in system hoping that people will assume you are AFK, what a most uninteresting gameplay.

I hunted AFK cloaky campers because I find them the most pathetic PvP players in this game, the one I got to attack my omi tanked Raven three times then caught him on the gate was priceless, he whined so bad it was funny and he never came back.

While I am focused on the fact of hunting them, the tactic actually has a negative impact on the game because people are finding that they cannot do anything against it so they log on find they are camped and log off, if they are older players they might log on a mission toon and do that instead, but newer players will just build up a level of frustration.

As I am aware of the issue with local making it hard, I accept that it is valid to cloaky camp, but I want to remove the AFK part, seems fair to me, but not to people like you.

Anyway I will come back to this thread to point out the need for an AFK flag, but debating with people who are incapable of debating the issue and rely on personal attacks is a waste of my time. I will come in state the case for an AFK flag then leave, I will do it every two days and I will ignore you and that other one. Have fun...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#6272 - 2016-07-03 08:21:41 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:


Stupid and idiotic misrepresentations and straw man arguments snipped...



Oh...no need to reply. Dracvlad's posts are self-defeating.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#6273 - 2016-07-03 08:28:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Teckos Pech wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


Truthful statements about Teckos Pech...



Oh...no need to reply. Teckos's posts are self-defeating.


AFK flag is the way to go...

When CCP change local to require a OS there should be another OS that will apply a AFK flag to those that are in system that are shown in local, this flag will show after an hour of no activity with the client, the only thing that the client can do without removing the flag is look around their immediate grid, any use of chat, any change of direction, joining a fleet any interaction will cause that flag to be removed.

The OS can be attacked and is not free in spite of what certain trolls say.

The objective is to make it quicker to gather intel on the actual ATK play time of the camper, this will negate the loss of intel on the droppers from the ending of the watch list. It will also prevent the use of AFK cloaky camping as a spoiling tactic which is detrimental to the game as a whole.

There is no issue with people sitting in anomalies and trying to game it that way, at least they are ATK.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#6274 - 2016-07-03 08:39:34 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:


The other troll says its free intel when if it is based on a structure it is not. So every time you and him slip into insults and rubbish like taht and talk around it, say it is bad but offer no reasons it shows you up for what you are.


It is free intel. I have explained why, even when you anchor a structure, it is free intel. If you anchor that structure and then have to do nothing else, then the cost on a "per unit basis" (irrespective of how you measure the units) is zero. If you were to charge a price for this kind of good, the price should be zero. There is no incremental costs involved. So either you have to make the costs increase with usage or...you include some sort of player based actions that will basically add in a cost with usage.

An AFK flag is just lazy, open to exploitation, and counter to the idea that players should be doing Stuff™ for themselves instead of CCP doing it for them.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Logan Jakal
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6275 - 2016-07-03 10:26:48 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


The other troll says its free intel when if it is based on a structure it is not. So every time you and him slip into insults and rubbish like taht and talk around it, say it is bad but offer no reasons it shows you up for what you are.


It is free intel. I have explained why, even when you anchor a structure, it is free intel. If you anchor that structure and then have to do nothing else, then the cost on a "per unit basis" (irrespective of how you measure the units) is zero. If you were to charge a price for this kind of good, the price should be zero. There is no incremental costs involved. So either you have to make the costs increase with usage or...you include some sort of player based actions that will basically add in a cost with usage.

An AFK flag is just lazy, open to exploitation, and counter to the idea that players should be doing Stuff™ for themselves instead of CCP doing it for them.


Like I said, you are just the kind of guy that wants to slap people in PvP without taking any risk, it's obvious by now. Go to World of Warcraft and stop being a cancer to EVE please.
Maria Dragoon
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6276 - 2016-07-03 19:18:55 UTC
Logan Jakal wrote:

Like I said, you are just the kind of guy that wants to slap people in PvP without taking any risk, it's obvious by now. Go to World of Warcraft and stop being a cancer to EVE please.


I love how this guy claims we want pvp without taking any risk, and knows nothing of the subject, specially seeing that cloaking vessels are one of the most unforgiving ships to fly, one mistake can result in a loss of all that expensive equipment and gear, not to mention the ship itself.

Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. Confucius

"A man who talks to people who aren't real is crazy. A man who talks to people who aren't real and writes down what they say is an author."
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#6277 - 2016-07-03 19:21:29 UTC
Logan Jakal wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


The other troll says its free intel when if it is based on a structure it is not. So every time you and him slip into insults and rubbish like taht and talk around it, say it is bad but offer no reasons it shows you up for what you are.


It is free intel. I have explained why, even when you anchor a structure, it is free intel. If you anchor that structure and then have to do nothing else, then the cost on a "per unit basis" (irrespective of how you measure the units) is zero. If you were to charge a price for this kind of good, the price should be zero. There is no incremental costs involved. So either you have to make the costs increase with usage or...you include some sort of player based actions that will basically add in a cost with usage.

An AFK flag is just lazy, open to exploitation, and counter to the idea that players should be doing Stuff™ for themselves instead of CCP doing it for them.


Like I said, you are just the kind of guy that wants to slap people in PvP without taking any risk, it's obvious by now. Go to World of Warcraft and stop being a cancer to EVE please.


So you got nothing. Got it.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Blade Darth
Room for Improvement
Good Sax
#6278 - 2016-07-06 19:30:05 UTC
Let's say you have 6 buddies or alts in pvp ishtars on standby always when you are active in system.

- Your ratting boat dies before they even land (If it's t2 poor man's fit/ buffor/ pvp = no cyno)
- "afk" cloaker sees your cloaky dictor warping around when it's trying to set up trap = no cyno
- "afk" cloaker is actually afk and you and your friends waste time

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Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#6279 - 2016-07-06 19:38:40 UTC
Blade Darth wrote:
Let's say you have 6 buddies or alts in pvp ishtars on standby always when you are active in system.

- Your ratting boat dies before they even land (If it's t2 poor man's fit/ buffor/ pvp = no cyno)
- "afk" cloaker sees your cloaky dictor warping around when it's trying to set up trap = no cyno
- "afk" cloaker is actually afk and you and your friends waste time


-Why would they be "on standby" why not there in the anomaly with you?
-If the dictor is seen and the bait is not taken...keep ratting, make ISK, defeat the lowest point of AFK camping: asset/resource denial.
-If he is AFK, well you'll still get the ISK/resources.

Seriously why is this hard? People show up and whine and whine about not being able to rat. Then they form a fleet with 95% of the people sitting around with their thumbs up their posteriors going, "This sucks." [Yeah, because you are dumb]. If you have 5-6 guys in PvP fit ishtars how fast will you burn down the anomaly? 6 times faster than all by your lonesome? And note the original complaint: I can't rat. Well if you are ratting....you've stopped the camper from stopping you.

Seriously, people argue, "We had to form fleets with 150-250 people in them to take our space! How can 1 guy be allowed to disrupt our using that space!?!?!?!?"

Uhhhh....because you let him?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Blade Darth
Room for Improvement
Good Sax
#6280 - 2016-07-06 20:47:44 UTC
Congrats for being in an alliance with a bunch of people doing anoms in subcaps at any given time (that want to team up).

Past 2-3 ppl in a site isk/h is hurt, not to mention drone aggro and automatic targeter stop working.
But yea, better lower isk and manual targeting than no isk at all.

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