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June release 118.6 - General feedback

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Author
Rain6637
NulzSec
#181 - 2016-06-29 09:10:51 UTC
Top Yourself wrote:
Rain6637 wrote:
What I would like instead is an Overview animation that makes it sparkle as it appears, but resets my settings every time.

You joke, but that is what it's like for me now... as unlike the old overview, the new one doesn't support the settings I need.

What's going on with overview now?

good lord they made the undocking camera apply to station undocks too. Dear CCP, we only have 10 seconds of invulnerability to gain our situational awareness, and at least half that invulnerability timer is consumed by a completely black screen.

Please appreciate that I didn't type that in all caps.
Top Yourself
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#182 - 2016-06-29 09:20:37 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
Top Yourself wrote:
Rain6637 wrote:
What I would like instead is an Overview animation that makes it sparkle as it appears, but resets my settings every time.

You joke, but that is what it's like for me now... as unlike the old overview, the new one doesn't support the settings I need.

What's going on with overview now?

good lord they made the undocking camera apply to station undocks too. Dear CCP, we only have 10 seconds of invulnerability to gain our situational awareness, and at least half that invulnerability timer is consumed by a completely black screen.

Please appreciate that I didn't type that in all caps.

Sorry my bad. I'm complaining about EVE in general rather than this release specifically.

I don't think I can really give good feedback of the issues without making it clear that these issues are systematic in nature. The problems in this release are not restricted to this release. They are not random mistakes. They will keep on happening until the cause is fixed. The cause is not in the code or in the servers. Ignoring it will not make it go away.
Red Deck
The Tebo Corp
Herd Of Cats
#183 - 2016-06-29 09:22:18 UTC
On a scale from -10 to +10:

extra overview tabs... +10
velocity/direction vectors in tactical overlay... +5
wallet balance change popups... +5
no more thrill of the hunt... -8
docking/undocking animations... -1000

I can't believe an animation lasting only a few seconds can really make me feel physically unwell. But it can. It's another step in the wrong direction. Ideally, what I would like to see after getting the permission to dock, is a static screen (which used to be an option) - frankly, a uniform black background would be just fine with me. Animated ships, ads and other movies, docking animations... all that is extremely annoying and feel not only completely unnecessary, but detrimental.

It feels to me like CCP completely fails to understand how little things than make people 'ooh' when seen for the first time get unbelievably annoying when endured for the thousandth time. Moving around a lot, I sometimes dock/undock 200-300 times a day... so I will have to watch the effin' docking/undocking animations 200-300 times a day. EVERY DAY. Who in his right mind could consider that a good thing?

And that response by the CCP dev... man, are you even serious?
Rain6637
NulzSec
#184 - 2016-06-29 09:30:59 UTC
Red Deck wrote:

It feels to me like CCP completely fails to understand how little things than make people 'ooh' when seen for the first time get unbelievably annoying when endured for the thousandth time.

Because conference room game design and the idea sounds good. Perhaps a hint of someone wishing they had become a film director when they grew up.

Form over function, form over function.
Kremlath
Cayman Finance
#185 - 2016-06-29 09:59:11 UTC
Until this fix for the unbroken is removed maybe we should put our heads together and come up with workarounds. So far I've been trying -

a) not docking
b) not logging in

A is hard to sustain. B works but, you know, I like to play this game..
Kalpel
KBM
#186 - 2016-06-29 10:13:07 UTC
New docking and undocking camera views are absolutely awful and makes me sick! please CCP make this optional

You failed to target nothing! ≡v≡ online ... (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

Rain6637
NulzSec
#187 - 2016-06-29 10:18:01 UTC
CCP your Oculus Rift devs can explain to you how bad it is to take camera control away from the player. A pretty simple rule is don't do it. With the docking animation you've created a period where the player loses control of their ship and the camera. With the undocking animation you've caused the camera to have a mind of its own.

The docking animation is excusable but what bothers me is how you've done it elsewhere. It took so long for you to finally realize the camera should remember its zoom after jumping a gate so why would you treat this session change differently? Especially undocking which is one of the most precarious moments in the game.

If you have plans for more super sick camera swivel animations, for anything, please cancel them.

While you're at it can you make the gate jump animation stop grabbing me by the face?
tango 5
Tango Exploration Ltd
#188 - 2016-06-29 10:19:08 UTC
The new camera is way too fast. It's making myself and other players feel a bit sickly. Atleast give us the option to use the old smooth camera that we all loved.
Rain6637
NulzSec
#189 - 2016-06-29 10:39:42 UTC
you should make the complimentary MCT standard at the rate things are going.
Daandsig
Commercial Street
#190 - 2016-06-29 10:46:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Daandsig
I would like to see the new docking and undocking camera be optional. Docking makes me a bit motion sick I guess would be a way to explain it. Undocking takes me out of my tactical view.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#191 - 2016-06-29 11:04:47 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
7 pages in 12 hours and much of it requesting ONE (docking animations - ON / OFF) thing be altered.

Our focus with the settings menu right now is on reducing complexity, rather than adding it. Generally, we won't add a toggle for a new graphic feature unless it is too heavy for low-end machines, and even then we'd prefer to tie it to an existing setting.

However, your feedback about what you do or don't like about the docking animation can help direct future iteration on it, so if it bothers you, please let us know specifically why.

So would undocking warping to a gate (during the invul killing undock animation) and having your ship not visible, camera frozen, not being able to jump or warp off - Be classed as a glich, bug or intended ?

Or the losing of a cyno because while I was waiting for the docking animation and the reshipping animation I was unable to undock and protect my alts ship - Yeah it was only a T1 frigate but if this sort of game play slowing feature is intended to work like this, it really isn't a good feature.
For Bob's sake, you can't even open the fitting window, market or anything else for the time it takes for your ship to, "arrive"?


Worst part of this, when you have to relog (3 times so far in 4 hours) to continue your journey, you don't warp off - You just sit on the gate - In lowsec. With the added login time since Citadel, this will lead to Support receiving a lot more - Eve is broken tickets they need to delay 3 or 4 weeks answering because they are "busy". (average support ticket response is around 3 weeks now - and you want to add to that with this un-necessary, unpopular addition to the growing lagfest called TQ)

Normal Frame Rate, around 65 (3 monitors with dedicated GTX 750ti cards), now driven down to 15 on undocking - Dropping to 45 due to the "can't turn it off" and not at all interesting "warp effect" was something I could live with - I'm sorry, I don't have 4 grand to replace my 2 year old computer, just to keep up with the "fluff" effects CCP seem intent on driving some of us out of the game with. We aren't all millionaires that can buy a new computer every six months because CCP like adding resource hogging, time wasting "fluff". I used to be able to run 4 or 5 characters with graphics on high, now i run 3 or 4 on medium and low settings and still get lag spikes worthy of dialup internet and frame rate drops that would be expected using my old 386 with intel onboard graphics.
I know my system is not top of the line but a 3.6 quad core, 16 gig ram and 2 dedicated cards should be able to run my characters, as it did 2 months ago.


I know, how about an ON / Off switch for those who want to actually play Eve, not put up with meaningless effects no-one but a Dev with too much time on his or her hands decided we need. (90% of SISi feedback was against this - the majority here is negative, IS CCP LISTENING)

Personally, I would rather have more options in the menu to turn off unwanted effects - Not less.

You say your focusing on reducing menu complexity, which is good BUT for BOB's sake, don't do it at the expense of play-ability of the game. (Don't we have enough timers to deal with already, without CCP adding things like this)

These new animations add nothing to game play and so should be "optional" so those who want to play the game in a fast efficient way can. We should not be forced to wait out timers when docking or undocking, which is basically all this new addition brings to TQ.

I've already dropped from 11 to 5 accounts, I just can't run them all anymore. Seems I may have to drop a couple more if some of these resource hogging effects aren't given ON / OFF options. I don't know what you did with Citadel but, logging in, longer black screen on undock, severely reduced frame rates (All compared to before Citadel), is taking a toll.

Specifically what I don't like - The whole station induced timer thing. The added time to dock reship and undock. The way the camera zooms right out and seems to go in a circle, then zooms to 100% when the timer ends.
I could go on but I think you should get the idea - If I have not been clear enough, I don't like the feature, AT ALL.


Eve has enough "fluff" for now, fixing things that are broken would make Eve a much better game. New timers don't.. ..


Suggestion;
If you want to add a "boarding animation" Which this seems to be attempting - Make it realistic.
Player opens ships hangar, selects ship, walks up to it and boards. THEN you would have something that might be worth adding to the game. (remember Incarna - if your gonna do it, do it right) Again It would need to have an opt in, out option, not everyone wants forced special effects in Eve. Some of us just want to play the game with minimum fuss.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.

Axhind
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
#192 - 2016-06-29 11:14:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Axhind
CCP Darwin wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
7 pages in 12 hours and much of it requesting ONE (docking animations - ON / OFF) thing be altered.

Our focus with the settings menu right now is on reducing complexity, rather than adding it. Generally, we won't add a toggle for a new graphic feature unless it is too heavy for low-end machines, and even then we'd prefer to tie it to an existing setting.

However, your feedback about what you do or don't like about the docking animation can help direct future iteration on it, so if it bothers you, please let us know specifically why.


Could you please stop chasing consol crowd and kids? This is EVE, supposedly the most complex game in existence and we like it like that. I think that most of us can handle a bit more options without any issues. Dumbing things down on top of murdering 0.0 is getting to the point where it's not surprising that numbers are dropping like a rock heading for a black hole.

Edit: And bring back Tab functionality. I know that idiots from FPS world expect it to activate a score overview but they are hardly going to stick around in eve when any FPS gives instant gratification.
Viriato Legionis
X Equestris
#193 - 2016-06-29 11:21:36 UTC
Hi there, my concern is not with the Docking/undocking animation ( likely it will be redesigned), my concern lies in the Serpentis event that didn´t come out in time.

I actually spent one day of my holidays to play the expansion, really you notice it wasn´t working few hours prior deploying the patch?Oops
Axhind
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
#194 - 2016-06-29 11:31:47 UTC
Sergey Hawk wrote:
CCP Darwin wrote:

However, your feedback about what you do or don't like about the docking animation can help direct future iteration on it, so if it bothers you, please let us know specifically why.


Because this animation is very annoying.
Every release you add very annoying thing:

  • dong
  • flashing kill confirmation
  • intermediate centering before rotation in new camera
  • scope video in HQ
  • ads in hangar

and now this stupid docking animation!

Do you really think that all these crap make EVE better? You are wrong!
You are killing the game with these "improvements".
Maybe you all need to stop the development of EVE and start practice for Euro 2020?
I got more enjoyment from watching how Iceland plays football at Euro 2016 than from playing last 3 months in EVE Online.



Hey, flashing kill confirmation is actually useful to know if you killed the ship or it docked up. Rest are just atrocities that should never have happened.
CCP Lebowski
C C P
C C P Alliance
#195 - 2016-06-29 11:35:38 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Fighter missile attack is broken - CCP please feedback from the threads you put yourself on this forum.
Thanks for reporting this, could you provide more information of the specific attack and fighter type that was not working for you and in what situation? I have been unable to find any issue with the Heavy Rocket Salvo, Micro Missile Swarm, or Torpedo Salvo during testing.

Thanks in advance!

CCP Lebowski | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five-0

@CCP_Lebowski

Rain6637
NulzSec
#196 - 2016-06-29 11:48:10 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
Sgt Ocker wrote:
7 pages in 12 hours and much of it requesting ONE (docking animations - ON / OFF) thing be altered.

Our focus with the settings menu right now is on reducing complexity, rather than adding it. Generally, we won't add a toggle for a new graphic feature unless it is too heavy for low-end machines, and even then we'd prefer to tie it to an existing setting.

However, your feedback about what you do or don't like about the docking animation can help direct future iteration on it, so if it bothers you, please let us know specifically why.

Add the docking /undocking camera effect to the Dynamic Center Offset checkbox. I already have it un-checked because of the whiplash track camera effect.
Fer'isam K'ahn
SAS Veterinarians
#197 - 2016-06-29 11:58:53 UTC
New patch (today) - New Opportunity - New Hope

12 Seconds from being ingame to actually being able to do anything - black screen
9 seconds from 'undock' to be able to use ship controls - black screen
6 seconds to dock and end the animation (centering helps to reduce motion sickness.. but it must be 100%)

this compares to pre new camera

1 second delay between login screen and being ingame (some flicker of the log in picture)
no delay from 'undock' (once in hangar undock is verified, instant ship control and camera access)
no delay to dock

Luckily 'logging off' is still instant -> And I was so looking forward tot he the Scope events. Cry


As for past iterations

New camera = bad - loss of clear effectiveness and usability, causing lag for many features (most measurable in hacking)
New Tactical Overview = good - added information in a clear way (though not sure why I would ever need a direction and speed vector)
New Map = unnecessary to bad - too much 'fluff' detracting form effectiveness and a clear and fast depiction (visual and mental filtering) of the information
New Probe Window = Bad - Less clear and transparent in communicating the information.
New Scan = Not much of an opinion, not been using it much yet (to be honest, its been deactivated since the moment it hit TQ)



And just an example of how things are often overdesigned and meaningless. I just noticed today, when you click on the patch notes link in the new launcher, you get a radar or sonar ping like animation to illustrate, that you clicked Roll
Guess what, when I click on it, the browser opens with the related page Shocked

- there was no use to spend time thinking about a ping feature
- there was no use in spending time programing such a feature
- there was no use in spending resources to implement such a feature
- there was no use in spending resources to run a feature
- there was no use in wasting time to actually write this and talk about such a meaningless useless thing
- and here we are Ugh

As another example of how things should/could be; I use ACDSee classic from 1995 to view and organize, customize my pictures. It is fast, effective, instant pre-caching as fast as you can scroll through them, no matter the size. And you know what, the program is 1.43 MB in size - WOW.
Compare this to all the new forced programs by window, extra programs with each camera, phone, purchasable and more who all offer less function, with huge resource and disk space costs etc., but what you get are Apple design layouts or imitations, nice color schemes, new and individual (for each manufacturer) icons and options to 'personalize' YOUR layout, all the while ignoring why you actually have such a program.

You get everything but what matters, with a superficial incentive to re-buy ... sounds familiar ?
CCP Turtlepower
C C P
C C P Alliance
#198 - 2016-06-29 12:01:36 UTC
Ound wrote:
Buying item ISK amount is not Red but White, is that intentional or unintentional change?
This is an intentional change, and was documented in the patch notes.

Keep the feedback coming please, we are reading Big smile

o7
CCP Turtlepower
Hatori Yumimura
Eleven Dimensions
#199 - 2016-06-29 12:03:55 UTC
12:03 Eve time on the 29.06.2016 still no Event sites.
Rain6637
NulzSec
#200 - 2016-06-29 12:08:16 UTC
The blue heading arrow gets lost behind the icon and brackets. I think the scaling behavior of the heading arrow and icon / brackets is reversed from what they should be. The problem with non-scaling icons and brackets is you lose relative size information, and if you zoom out, an icon and bracket become as big as a citadel. The heading arrow doesn't represent size like the brackets attempt to (ironically stripping the information away with zoom), and I'd still like to see the heading arrow at a distance.

I mean, especially at a distance. Isn't that the purpose of indicating the heading of a ship, because you can't look at it up close all the time?