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How to make PPL pay for EVE and make PVP (learning implants issue)

Author
Lori Sarain
Apostolic Armed Forces
#1 - 2016-06-26 23:06:32 UTC
Lets give players who have active account +1 bonus to all attributes for each month of continuous payment (up to +5 bonus for 5 months of payment). Those +5 bonus points to attributes for continuous payment should not stack with points from learning implants eg. player with full set of +5 learning implants and +5 month bonus to attributes should have only +5 bonus to attributes overall.

This way, after 5 months of having active (paid) account in Eve every player could make PVP without fear of loosing learning implants. Even if someone pods a player, loosing implants will not harm her/him and podded character could learn with full speed because of bonus for continuous payment.

If player stops paying for account for longer than 1 month payment bonus to attributes counter will drop to zero. When payment occurs and account will become active again, bonus counter it will start to rise +1 after each month (again, up to +5 after 5 months).

Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2 - 2016-06-26 23:20:05 UTC
Let's not!
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#3 - 2016-06-26 23:48:22 UTC
Or let's remove attributes all together. Much better plan.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#4 - 2016-06-26 23:53:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
I must be missing something. People who don't pay for their accounts dont train at all let alone slower than those that do continuously. They're not even allowed to log in...

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Khan Wrenth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2016-06-27 01:42:17 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
I must be missing something. People who don't pay for their accounts dont train at all let alone slower than those that do continuously. They're not even allowed to log in...

I could be wrong, but I think OP might be referring to difference between paying an account with cash verses PLEXing it. It's the only way it makes any sort of sense. But I don't know why anyone would single out payment method as a reason to do something so asinine.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6 - 2016-06-27 02:23:52 UTC
Khan Wrenth wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
I must be missing something. People who don't pay for their accounts dont train at all let alone slower than those that do continuously. They're not even allowed to log in...

I could be wrong, but I think OP might be referring to difference between paying an account with cash verses PLEXing it. It's the only way it makes any sort of sense. But I don't know why anyone would single out payment method as a reason to do something so asinine.


Especially since that payment method gives CCP less money...
Lori Sarain
Apostolic Armed Forces
#7 - 2016-06-27 05:49:48 UTC
Proposal main goal is to make learning implants still usable but less important and no-PVP blocking. Its relatively small change and does not require to change implant ecosystem that works in Eve now. Change will allow new players like me who now sit in HiSec bored with +5 learning implants (and are afraid of loosing them) to start PVP-ing without sacrificing training speed if podded. Money can be made, implants can be bought but lost time is precious and I want to train full speed to get core and fittings skills ASAP.

I propose to give bonus to attributes for months of payment, done by any means:
1) by real cash (buying PLEX or subscription)
2) indirectly by buying PLEX on internal game market for ISK.

I pay for game with PLEX bought by real money and every month I'm making a decision... pay for Eve or make a break because eg. I have much work or I'm going to vacation soon. Described bonus will work like incentive to me and similar players without recurring subscription to pay for active account continuously.

And most importantly, I will start to PVP and will travel to low-sec, null-sec and wormholes with my main character and .... will not become bored with this game (I'm bored now).
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#8 - 2016-06-27 05:57:21 UTC
just use a jump clone like the rest of us do, sorted.

also outside of a smartbombing bs there is no reason to lose a pod in high or lowsec.
Lori Sarain
Apostolic Armed Forces
#9 - 2016-06-27 06:11:22 UTC
I meet pirates with smartbombs and carriers in lowsec in the past. Lost my pod every time.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#10 - 2016-06-27 06:49:49 UTC
So? Run two +3 implants in your lowsec clone, the difference in training time is utterly minuscule.

Also use perches and dscan gates you think there might be a smartbomb guy on, it's not difficult.
Lori Sarain
Apostolic Armed Forces
#11 - 2016-06-27 08:24:04 UTC
Jump clones does not solve described problem with implants.

I do noit want to change clone to body without implants or with lesser implants because - i will be loosing skillpoints that way. I invested my time to train Cybernetics to 5 and bought +5 implants to use it full time - not only in certain days when I use proper clone. Why should I invest large pile of time and money in something and do not use it ? This makes no sense to me.

Also, I do not want to make trips to low-sec or null-sec from time to time, I want to live there and PVP full time. That means my character will be in constant danger of loosing not only costly ship, modules, its cargo, but also game time because of slower training.

Loosing fight, ship and pod its too costly for me and because of this I'm staying PassiVE in hi-sec. As many players in similar situation. Someday I will start PVP or ... I will become too bored, decide to win and stop paying for a game.

I do not want PVP to be risk free, I want reasonable losses when I'm defeated (ship, modules, cargo). Skillpoints are most valuable thing in game and I hate loosing them.
Makareena
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2016-06-27 08:55:39 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Khan Wrenth wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
I must be missing something. People who don't pay for their accounts dont train at all let alone slower than those that do continuously. They're not even allowed to log in...

I could be wrong, but I think OP might be referring to difference between paying an account with cash verses PLEXing it. It's the only way it makes any sort of sense. But I don't know why anyone would single out payment method as a reason to do something so asinine.


Especially since that payment method gives CCP less money...


PLEX in game is created with real money - CCP gets the same amount no matter what.
If i buy a PLEX with ISK - someone else pays real money for my playtime.

And btw Daichi - ghost training.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#13 - 2016-06-27 09:13:49 UTC
Lori Sarain wrote:
...
I do not want PVP to be risk free, I want reasonable losses when I'm defeated (ship, modules, cargo). Skillpoints are most valuable thing in game and I hate loosing them.


Good, you have chosen the dark side of the force. Now my young sith apprentice, since you want to do pvp full time that jump clone option might be right for you.

You claim to live in null, so there will be clone stations. Use them and +3 implants. Clone jump a day before your break and train full speed ahead in your second clone.

When you return, jump back to the pvp one or don't use implants at all.


When I started to to pvp, I didn't use any implants but I used my +5 clone to train while I took breaks. I couldn't even use implants for a couple of years before I got my first.

Listen to Danika, she knows. That difference between the +3 and +5 implants are maybe 5 days per year. After being here for more than a year, 5 days will be no time at all.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#14 - 2016-06-27 12:01:09 UTC
If this is about implants why are you tying it to active subscription?
Just remove training implants.

In the mean time, stop obsessing over max/sp hour. This is coming from a player whos never used a +5 implant on any char. Even the ones in hi sec.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#15 - 2016-06-27 12:56:53 UTC
Makareena wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Khan Wrenth wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
I must be missing something. People who don't pay for their accounts dont train at all let alone slower than those that do continuously. They're not even allowed to log in...

I could be wrong, but I think OP might be referring to difference between paying an account with cash verses PLEXing it. It's the only way it makes any sort of sense. But I don't know why anyone would single out payment method as a reason to do something so asinine.


Especially since that payment method gives CCP less money...


PLEX in game is created with real money - CCP gets the same amount no matter what.
If i buy a PLEX with ISK - someone else pays real money for my playtime.

And btw Daichi - ghost training.


I was saying that subscription gave CCP less money because PLEX are sold for more than a moth of subscription cost.

Ghost training is also no longer working BTW.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#16 - 2016-06-27 14:29:46 UTC
Lori Sarain wrote:
Skillpoints are most valuable thing in game and I hate loosing them.

Except for T3 cruisers, please explain to us how you lose skillpoints after CCP removed skillpoint loss due to inadequate clone grade when they removed clone grades? You cannot lose skillpoints any longer (except for T3 cruiser losses), the only thing you have is a barely noticeable slower accumulation rate between different attribute levels and remaps. Slower != loss. Once you have learned and internalized that fundamental difference, we can continue the discussion.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#17 - 2016-06-27 15:46:34 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Lori Sarain wrote:
Skillpoints are most valuable thing in game and I hate loosing them.

Except for T3 cruisers, please explain to us how you lose skillpoints after CCP removed skillpoint loss due to inadequate clone grade when they removed clone grades? You cannot lose skillpoints any longer (except for T3 cruiser losses), the only thing you have is a barely noticeable slower accumulation rate between different attribute levels and remaps. Slower != loss. Once you have learned and internalized that fundamental difference, we can continue the discussion.


I kept telling people stuff like that when they were ass-mad about potentially "losing" SP if they didn't run a daily. They never accepted it.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#18 - 2016-06-27 17:44:20 UTC
Lori Sarain wrote:
Jump clones does not solve described problem with implants.

I do noit want to change clone to body without implants or with lesser implants because - i will be loosing skillpoints that way. I invested my time to train Cybernetics to 5 and bought +5 implants to use it full time - not only in certain days when I use proper clone. Why should I invest large pile of time and money in something and do not use it ? This makes no sense to me.

Also, I do not want to make trips to low-sec or null-sec from time to time, I want to live there and PVP full time. That means my character will be in constant danger of loosing not only costly ship, modules, its cargo, but also game time because of slower training.

Loosing fight, ship and pod its too costly for me and because of this I'm staying PassiVE in hi-sec. As many players in similar situation. Someday I will start PVP or ... I will become too bored, decide to win and stop paying for a game.

I do not want PVP to be risk free, I want reasonable losses when I'm defeated (ship, modules, cargo). Skillpoints are most valuable thing in game and I hate loosing them.



The 'problem' is entirely in your head. The difference between +3 and +5 implants, across an entire year, is 26 days.

If you really splash out and use +4s, like what I do, it's twelve days. It'd be less than that if you spend time between sessions in your +5 clone too.

(Numbers figured out in evemon with my alt's current queue. You gain more days of training with decent remap management than you do with +5s over +4s)


Should the game really change drastically over such a tiny amount of time? You could always try buying a skill injector with the isk you save from not splashing out half a bil at a time for implants if you're that concerned about training times.


Trust me, I DO live in low/null full time. In low it's laughably easy to get your pod out and avoid smartbomb gatecamps, and in null, well, that's why you run two +3 or 4 implants and not a head full of +5s. It's up to YOU to make the decision here, it's not up to CCP to change the game for you.
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#19 - 2016-06-27 20:07:08 UTC
Lori Sarain wrote:
Skillpoints are most valuable thing in game and I hate loosing them.




Incorrect, dignity is the most valuable thing in game

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log

Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#20 - 2016-06-27 20:46:03 UTC
Lori Sarain wrote:
I pay for game with PLEX bought by real money and every month I'm making a decision... pay for Eve or make a break because eg. I have much work or I'm going to vacation soon. Described bonus will work like incentive to me and similar players without recurring subscription to pay for active account continuously.


Why on earth would you buy a plex every month? It's $5/mo cheaper to subscribe for a month than to buy a plex. Just change to a subscription, use that $5/mo you're now saving to buy a plex with real money and sell it on the market. The skill injector you could then buy would cover the difference between +3 and +5 implants for a long time.
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