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valve sued over iligal gambleing... is ccp next with iwantisk?

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OkarasRule
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1 - 2016-06-25 13:32:21 UTC
http://gadgets.ndtv.com/games/news/valve-sued-for-promoting-illegal-gambling-in-counter-strike-global-offensive-853288

Iv felt that in game sites that let you gamble at a none age verified style along with encouragements to gamble such as promo codes and the way everything is open to people with just simplistic methods might be a bad thing. Turns out someone else thought this and is going after valve for the quite honestly same reason.

Point brought up:
Its in game money not rl money

My answer:
People blow money on plex to get isk to sink into the site. untold amounts of isk will eventually become RMT money once the guy holding it all eventually gets board of being the richest "look at somablink"

Point Brought Up:
Its only ISK not $ or £

My answer:
Your right but it may foster the mentality that gambling is ok and a way to spend your money. A player who wins all the time in a eve gambling site might eventually think he/she can win on a rl gambling site. This may get people who are underage gambling with money that they either gotten off their parents or saved up eventually creating a mental addiction to gambling at a young age.

Many people like these sites a little the same to the csgo players like their gambling sites and in my honest opinion their isn't a difference between each site as they both promote gambling and they are both super easy to get into/addicted to. Its a thing to put in your mind in relations to the way they can be seen and the way that ccp doing nothing to prevent the sites could possibly be seen as encouraging the sites existence and assisting in their survival.


Disclaimer.
I used iwantisk as a example gambling site as it is the most obvious and most well known.
I fully expect the trolls to feast on this as that is what trolls do
I am personally against gambling as it destroys lives and see its inclusion in eve as a black mark against the game
Rovinia
Exotic Dancers Union
#2 - 2016-06-25 14:20:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Rovinia
Better you learn it in a game that fortuna is a ***** and you can lose lot's of stuff with gambling and perhaps find out that you are endangered to get easily addicted to such things than in an Real life casino. And Lot's of people did just that.

Gambling in whatever form seems to be a desire of people in most societys, best example is england where betting on allmost everything is kind of a national sport.

Beside that: There is something called "personal responsibility". Some legal limits, why not. But what i do with my (ingame-) money is primary my own business.
Ssabat Thraxx
DUST Expeditionary Team
Good Sax
#3 - 2016-06-25 15:01:17 UTC
I see a whole lot of "people aren't responsible for their own actions" in the OP.

\m/ O.o \m/

"You're a freak ..." - Solecist Project
OkarasRule
State War Academy
Caldari State
#4 - 2016-06-25 15:26:58 UTC
young players aka people under 16 are quite high in eve and to me they aint really responsible enough to know what they are doing is possibly bad for themselves. Im not by any stretch of my motivations telling people that they need to do this or telling people what they are supposed to do in life as that literally is none of my business and I am not at liberty to dictate what people should or shouldn't do. Just stating that exposure to things like gambling/drinking/violence makes the person see it as the norm and could possibly damage them in the long term.

People are responsible for their own actions but most people are very easy to control
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#5 - 2016-06-25 15:30:43 UTC
OkarasRule wrote:
young players aka people under 16 are quite high in eve


A lot of players get high, in EVE and other games.


☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Blade Darth
Room for Improvement
Good Sax
#6 - 2016-06-25 16:23:23 UTC
OkarasRule wrote:
young players aka people under 16 are quite high in eve and to me they aint really responsible enough to know what they are doing is possibly bad for themselves. Im not by any stretch of my motivations telling people that they need to do this or telling people what they are supposed to do in life as that literally is none of my business and I am not at liberty to dictate what people should or shouldn't do. Just stating that exposure to things like gambling/drinking/violence makes the person see it as the norm and could possibly damage them in the long term.

People are responsible for their own actions but most people are very easy to control


1) 16 year olds are treated lika adults in most countries. For a reason. On the other hand some 30 year olds behave like kids, and should not have voting rights, but there is nothing you can do about that.
2) Idk about you, but I knew enough about drugs, gambling and violence (aka being a total a**) to not do this when I was, like, 13.
3) most eve players are much older, it's not COD
4) yes people are easy to control, but still responsible for their own actions. Lack of knowledge and stupidity is not an excuse.
5) If you fall for gambling tricks (4'th grade math to calculate how much you will lose on average) it's your fault. Unless you are in kindergarten, but than you should have a parent beside you while browsing the internet and no access to EVE api/ password in the first place.

Omen Navy Issue Tutorial
Geronimo McVain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2016-06-25 18:29:53 UTC
Trading things in eve for RL money is illegal. So CCP is out of it.

And CCP doesn't get a share of IwantISKs income so they are not liable.
Aaron Honk
Distributed Denial of Service
#8 - 2016-06-25 18:40:39 UTC
Quote:
These can be traded outside the game for cash.



We can't legally trade ISK or ingame items for IRL money, it's a big difference.
Dark Lord Trump
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#9 - 2016-06-25 18:41:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Dark Lord Trump
I wonder how long it takes before he brings in Floridian law...

Also, I'd strongly advise against taking legal advice from someone who can't even spell "illegal gambling".

I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!
King Aires
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2016-06-25 19:09:32 UTC
Aaron Honk wrote:
Quote:
These can be traded outside the game for cash.



We can't legally trade ISK or ingame items for IRL money, it's a big difference.



The hell you can't

ISK -> Plex -> Game Time ($$$)
ISK -> Plex -> Fan Fest Tickets ($$$)
ISK -> Plex -> Transfer Fees ($$$)

And the list goes on and on.

Just because CCP isn't running an ATM doesn't mean you can't get cash considerations out of isk, and in some cases nearly directly.
ube smoked
State War Academy
Caldari State
#11 - 2016-06-25 19:47:14 UTC
I hope steam dies.
Sustrai Aditua
Intandofisa
#12 - 2016-06-25 19:58:47 UTC
Not so fast mon ami - in this "globalized" reality. A Dutch court has ruled in-game money and items should be treated as is actual property with the purposes of law enforcement. This precedent had to do with some kids holding a kid at knifepoint and forcing him to drop an item in WoW where one of their buddies was present to then pick it up. The defense tried to claim "it's just pixels, it doesn't exist", but the judge ruled it's NOT just pixels and can be treated by law as any other item anyone works for.

So...be advised. And, if you're playing "internet content" be sure your attorneys are in the present...not the distant past.

If we get chased by zombies, I'm tripping you.
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale
#13 - 2016-06-25 20:16:31 UTC
Aaron Honk wrote:
We can't legally trade ISK or ingame items for IRL money, it's a big difference.

There is no such law. There are no legal repercussions for RMT.

When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
Aaron Honk
Distributed Denial of Service
#14 - 2016-06-25 20:24:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Aaron Honk
ISK -> Plex -> Game Time ($$$) Have no value outside of the game
ISK -> Plex -> Fan Fest Tickets ($$$) Have value outside the game but this only happen once a year, so it's a rare case
ISK -> Plex -> Transfer Fees ($$$) Have no value outside of the game

Edit : Also can you resell the tickets, aren't they nominative or something ?

Linus Gorp wrote:
Aaron Honk wrote:
We can't legally trade ISK or ingame items for IRL money, it's a big difference.

There is no such law. There are no legal repercussions for RMT.


Are we laywer majors now ? I'm just saying there is a huge difference between the two things, and it would probably be taken into account if CCP get to court and have to defend itself
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#15 - 2016-06-25 20:34:14 UTC
OkarasRule wrote:
Point brought up:
Its in game money not rl money

OkarasRule wrote:
Point Brought Up:
Its only ISK not $ or £

Nobody else seems to have called you on it....but that is literally the same single point. You just worded it slightly differently so you could give a second rant as an "answer"...



As for the rest:

Iwantisk is *not* part of EVE. They are not owned, operated, or in any way affiliated with CCP. Hypothetically one could sue the people running the site, but you could not sue CCP for their actions.


You *might* have had a case with Somer Blink at one point - however CCP was called on it and pulled themselves out of the relationship (not for RL legal reasons, but they did so nonetheless) and of course now Somer is gone.

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
Bishop Bob
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2016-06-25 20:51:02 UTC
I have a site that people place bets on cars racing. Some of the cars are Fords.

Do you really think Ford can be sued for supporting gambling?
Aaron Honk
Distributed Denial of Service
#17 - 2016-06-25 21:05:59 UTC
Bishop Bob wrote:
I have a site that people place bets on cars racing. Some of the cars are Fords.

Do you really think Ford can be sued for supporting gambling?


In Valve case, they are accused to have helped the gambling websites to boost their own sales
Esrevid Nekkeg
Justified and Ancient
#18 - 2016-06-25 21:25:42 UTC
Blade Darth wrote:
1) 16 year olds are treated lika adults in most countries. ....
Eh, no. In most countries the age to legally be considered an adult is 18.
In most cases that is also the age at which one is permitted to gamble. If at all legal that is.


Here I used to have a sig of our old Camper in space. Now it is disregarded as being the wrong format. Looking out the window I see one thing: Nothing wrong with the format of our Camper! Silly CCP......
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#19 - 2016-06-25 22:02:41 UTC
Sustrai Aditua wrote:
Not so fast mon ami - in this "globalized" reality. A Dutch court has ruled in-game money and items should be treated as is actual property with the purposes of law enforcement. This precedent had to do with some kids holding a kid at knifepoint and forcing him to drop an item in WoW where one of their buddies was present to then pick it up. The defense tried to claim "it's just pixels, it doesn't exist", but the judge ruled it's NOT just pixels and can be treated by law as any other item anyone works for.

So...be advised. And, if you're playing "internet content" be sure your attorneys are in the present...not the distant past.
They should have banged him up for assault with a deadly weapon. If our judges in the UK are anything to go by I'd be surprised if the Judge in question even knew what pixels were Twisted

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Feyd's Survival Pack
Esrevid Nekkeg
Justified and Ancient
#20 - 2016-06-25 22:10:18 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Sustrai Aditua wrote:
Not so fast mon ami - in this "globalized" reality. A Dutch court has ruled in-game money and items should be treated as is actual property with the purposes of law enforcement. This precedent had to do with some kids holding a kid at knifepoint and forcing him to drop an item in WoW where one of their buddies was present to then pick it up. The defense tried to claim "it's just pixels, it doesn't exist", but the judge ruled it's NOT just pixels and can be treated by law as any other item anyone works for.

So...be advised. And, if you're playing "internet content" be sure your attorneys are in the present...not the distant past.
They should have banged him up for assault with a deadly weapon. If our judges in the UK are anything to go by I'd be surprised if the Judge in question even knew what pixels were Twisted
The kid that actualy held the knife was judged and sentenced for assault. As should.
For the others, especially the one 'only' waiting in-game to snatch the (forced) drop, theft had to be proven. Hence the judges decision.

Here I used to have a sig of our old Camper in space. Now it is disregarded as being the wrong format. Looking out the window I see one thing: Nothing wrong with the format of our Camper! Silly CCP......
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