These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Crime & Punishment

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page123Next page
 

Scam limits

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#21 - 2012-01-15 14:31:43 UTC
Swiftsoul Tian wrote:
Jack Tronic wrote:
So you are going to blackmail RMTers to pay you to keep your mouth quiet. You do realize CCP negative wallets the entire RMTed isk trail right?



I don't know but I can imagine. I'm not sure what you try to tell me with that question. It's not a crime in real life to buy ISK/items but giving away personal data is one. Really, I'm not going to break any laws for CCP's profit.

The moral aspect of this is out of question - it stinks, it's nasty and it's bad to the bone but hey, it's EVE - in-game thieving, scamming, extortion and ganking is a welcome part of the game!

Who knows what effect this will have - maybe some will never RMT again because they know it's not that secure they first thought it is.




I would suggest you stop skimming over post. That question was answered.

CCP follows the isk trail of RTM's if they Discover an RTM.

If you gain isk Wise that isk will be removed from your wallet if CCP discovers it came from RTM.

I'm going to give you an example since it seems to alude you.

You find a so called RTM.

They guve you 4Bil for you to go away. You then go and buy that nice Nightmare you always wanted and faction fit it. 4Bil used.

A while later, you log back into EVE and suddenly your wallet is sitting at -4 Bill.... YOU CRY.....

Seen it happen to people who was paid for an ingame service, no scams nothing. Although luckily.... for him it was only 1bil that he was in the red.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk
Swiftsoul Tian
Hardcore Smoochies
#22 - 2012-01-15 17:36:44 UTC
Cannibal Kane wrote:

.....You find a so called RTM.

They guve you 4Bil for you to go away. You then go and buy that nice Nightmare you always wanted and faction fit it. 4Bil used.

A while later, you log back into EVE and suddenly your wallet is sitting at -4 Bill.... YOU CRY.....


Like I wrote before, I'm totally aware of this and I don't have a problem with that. I'm not doing it for the ISK - I'm doing it for the criminal element of the act., for the kick to show the cheater that I know what he did ^^



Lemok Sonji wrote:

I'm saying that if you report them for RMT, they will get a ban if you give proof.
If you try to extort them for reporting them to CCP (legit report or not, doesn't matter, CCP won't check), you will get a ban.

Its that simple.

CCP won't turn into cops, and start investigate.
If one of them runs to CCP and say "This guy says he will report me falsely for RMT or I pay him ISK because he is a douche, and I never RMT and bla bla", CCP will most likely give you a nice ban....


True, I can not simply send them all the details, simply because I would render myself liable to prosecution (violation of Data Protection Act - remember, they didn't commit a r/l crime). All I can do is to give CCP a hint that player XY was involved in ISK/items RT with an exact date - something they should easily be able to verify. For the case the cheater should accuse me for false petitioning - well, I'm able to provide further details (e.g. character name involved, how the transaction was performed, etc.) still without violating local DPA.

I'll NOT false accuse anyone and I'll make this point clear in the blackmail. Not sure if this is more harassment than shakedown someone with "Post or pod" or the usual insult sessions in local chats - in the end it's up to CCP to justice.

It's for sure a questionable practice - even for EVE ^^
Gary Bell
Therapy.
Brave Collective
#23 - 2012-01-15 17:45:03 UTC
Might i make a suggestion... Dont use real RMTers, just pick some random mission runners and play in photoshop lol.
That might actually get you somewhere. But might i suggest using a newb toon so if somethign does happen you can just junk the toon with the negative wallet. P.S there are ways to launder purchased isk with no loss on your side, if you know what your doing...
Drachiel
Mercury LLC
#24 - 2012-01-15 21:14:04 UTC
Jack Tronic wrote:
So you are going to blackmail RMTers to pay you to keep your mouth quiet. You do realize CCP negative wallets the entire RMTed isk trail right?


I think he means he's going to mail random dumb people with money (bears) and hope they get scared.
Tommy Shanks
#25 - 2012-01-16 01:32:13 UTC
Terms of service:

10. You may not market, sell, advertise, promote, solicit or otherwise arrange for the exchange or transfer of items in the game or other game services unless it is for in-game sales of in-game services or items.

The ISK is acquired out of game and so it remains an out of game item. You get dinged on the "or otherwise arrange..." part of the TOS if you go thru with your scheme.

Your plot is directly against the TOS.
Lium
Perkone
Caldari State
#26 - 2012-01-16 01:49:37 UTC
Don't do it I did it and now am in - ISK.
No choice but to stop paying for this account game time, I lost character CCP lost customer. Blink
Signal11th
#27 - 2012-01-16 08:45:33 UTC
Well you could have always just given CCP the evidence and not post thus not giving the "bandito's" the chance to cover their tracks?

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
Swiftsoul Tian
Hardcore Smoochies
#28 - 2012-01-16 11:37:40 UTC
Signal11th wrote:
Well you could have always just given CCP the evidence and not post thus not giving the "bandito's" the chance to cover their tracks?


The list is private data and thus protected by DPA. If I would hand them out to CCP I would break several laws by doing so.


Signal11th
#29 - 2012-01-16 11:48:08 UTC
Swiftsoul Tian wrote:
Signal11th wrote:
Well you could have always just given CCP the evidence and not post thus not giving the "bandito's" the chance to cover their tracks?


The list is private data and thus protected by DPA. If I would hand them out to CCP I would break several laws by doing so.





But you were asking if you could blackmail them for isk and you're worried about data protection laws?

As any body says you are only breaking the law if you get caught!

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
Lemok Sonji
Lethal Devotion
Escalation Theory
#30 - 2012-01-16 13:27:15 UTC
Swiftsoul Tian wrote:

For the case the cheater should accuse me for false petitioning - well, I'm able to provide further details (e.g. character name involved, how the transaction was performed, etc.) still without violating local DPA.

I'll NOT false accuse anyone and I'll make this point clear in the blackmail. Not sure if this is more harassment than shakedown someone with "Post or pod" or the usual insult sessions in local chats - in the end it's up to CCP to justice.

It's for sure a questionable practice - even for EVE ^^


You still don't get it that it doesn't matter?

Even if you say to CCP "hey, I have proof", you are still blackmailing someone because of real life event.

You can't get away with it, or play around it.
If you blackmail someone, you are both breaking the law (blackmail is blackmail, in game or out of it, electronic or physical), and going against CCP TOS rules.

You are trying to find a way to blackmail someone without being caught. If he snitch on you, you will get banned, even if you provide proof or not. He will still provide proof that you tried to blackmail him (and if you use an alt account, I'm sure CCP can connect it to your real account), and you still get a ban.

Blackmail is blackmail.

And if you are worried about someone catching you for stealing online information, that is a pretty dump of a concern coming from someone who wants to blackmail another...Roll
Matalok
Slackers and Nihilists
#31 - 2012-01-16 13:34:45 UTC
Swiftsoul Tian wrote:

The list is private data and thus protected by DPA. If I would hand them out to CCP I would break several laws by doing so.


Well, this is going to end well :popcorn:
Signal11th
#32 - 2012-01-16 14:16:08 UTC
Lemok Sonji wrote:
Swiftsoul Tian wrote:

For the case the cheater should accuse me for false petitioning - well, I'm able to provide further details (e.g. character name involved, how the transaction was performed, etc.) still without violating local DPA.

I'll NOT false accuse anyone and I'll make this point clear in the blackmail. Not sure if this is more harassment than shakedown someone with "Post or pod" or the usual insult sessions in local chats - in the end it's up to CCP to justice.

It's for sure a questionable practice - even for EVE ^^


You still don't get it that it doesn't matter?

Even if you say to CCP "hey, I have proof", you are still blackmailing someone because of real life event.

You can't get away with it, or play around it.
If you blackmail someone, you are both breaking the law (blackmail is blackmail, in game or out of it, electronic or physical), and going against CCP TOS rules.

You are trying to find a way to blackmail someone without being caught. If he snitch on you, you will get banned, even if you provide proof or not. He will still provide proof that you tried to blackmail him (and if you use an alt account, I'm sure CCP can connect it to your real account), and you still get a ban.

Blackmail is blackmail.

And if you are worried about someone catching you for stealing online information, that is a pretty dump of a concern coming from someone who wants to blackmail another...Roll



Not technically correct. Blackmail exists in game nearly every hour of evey day, in regards to ransoming.

(1) A person is guilty of blackmail if, with a view to gain for himself or another or with intent to cause loss to another, he makes any unwarranted demand with menaces; and for this purpose a demand with menaces is unwarranted unless the person making it does so in the belief: (a) that he has reasonable grounds for making the demand; and (b) that the use of the menaces is a proper means of reinforcing the demand

From this you have to assume that blackmail in game is fine with CCP as long as it doesn't lap over into real life.
Every time I ransom a player I am technically "blackmailing" him.

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
Tommy Shanks
#33 - 2012-01-16 14:27:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Tommy Shanks
Signal11th wrote:
Lemok Sonji wrote:
Swiftsoul Tian wrote:

For the case the cheater should accuse me for false petitioning - well, I'm able to provide further details (e.g. character name involved, how the transaction was performed, etc.) still without violating local DPA.

I'll NOT false accuse anyone and I'll make this point clear in the blackmail. Not sure if this is more harassment than shakedown someone with "Post or pod" or the usual insult sessions in local chats - in the end it's up to CCP to justice.

It's for sure a questionable practice - even for EVE ^^


You still don't get it that it doesn't matter?

Even if you say to CCP "hey, I have proof", you are still blackmailing someone because of real life event.

You can't get away with it, or play around it.
If you blackmail someone, you are both breaking the law (blackmail is blackmail, in game or out of it, electronic or physical), and going against CCP TOS rules.

You are trying to find a way to blackmail someone without being caught. If he snitch on you, you will get banned, even if you provide proof or not. He will still provide proof that you tried to blackmail him (and if you use an alt account, I'm sure CCP can connect it to your real account), and you still get a ban.

Blackmail is blackmail.

And if you are worried about someone catching you for stealing online information, that is a pretty dump of a concern coming from someone who wants to blackmail another...Roll



Not technically correct. Blackmail exists in game nearly every hour of evey day, in regards to ransoming.

(1) A person is guilty of blackmail if, with a view to gain for himself or another or with intent to cause loss to another, he makes any unwarranted demand with menaces; and for this purpose a demand with menaces is unwarranted unless the person making it does so in the belief: (a) that he has reasonable grounds for making the demand; and (b) that the use of the menaces is a proper means of reinforcing the demand

From this you have to assume that blackmail in game is fine with CCP as long as it doesn't lap over into real life.
Every time I ransom a player I am technically "blackmailing" him.


One could argue that ISK bought with real money carries a real monetary value and for you to blackmail somebody for a portion of that value means that you are blackmailing them in real life.

Of course from CCPs perpsective they own everything and their ownership is absolute. If you want cut into their plex by enacting your scheme be my guest by they are a for profit company and will probably not be very understanding to your perspective.

ISK bought out of game make it an out of game item.

Edit: So go ahead a violate the TOS and interfere with CCPs profits while expecting them to just take it in stride because you think you have a compelling arguement.
Nex apparatu5
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#34 - 2012-01-16 14:55:24 UTC
No one with two brain cells to rub together is going to send you isk for the same reason no one pays ransoms:

If they send you isk, there's nothing to stop you from saying "I want a bill" later down the road.

Zero gain for the RMTer by paying you the isk.
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
#35 - 2012-01-16 15:47:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Jint Hikaru
Swiftsoul Tian wrote:
Hey all,

just a quick question about scams. Would the following be a legit scam in EVE?

Let's say I claim that I have a comprehensive list of players who bought ISK/items from RMT websites. Now I work thru that list and write everyone an in-game email with the choice either to pay me 500mil (or what ever) or being reported.

Is this still a legit crime in EVE?




You do know how this turned out when it was tried in RL, don't you?

ASC Law Layer files for Bankrupcy

Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
Karl Planck
Perkone
Caldari State
#36 - 2012-01-16 16:00:16 UTC
Nex apparatu5 wrote:
No one with two brain cells to rub together is going to send you isk for the same reason no one pays ransoms:

If they send you isk, there's nothing to stop you from saying "I want a bill" later down the road.

Zero gain for the RMTer by paying you the isk.


people pay me ransoms all the time. I honor them and have a reputation for doing so. I make isk, they keep their implants, everyone wins.

on topic to this thread, the guy who blew the lid on that rmt website last year tried to extort, when it failed he blew the lid and a whole lotta rmt'ers went down

I has all the eve inactivity
Swiftsoul Tian
Hardcore Smoochies
#37 - 2012-01-16 22:07:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Swiftsoul Tian
Lemok Sonji wrote:

If you blackmail someone, you are both breaking the law (blackmail is blackmail, in game or out of it, electronic or physical), and going against CCP TOS rules.
...


Interesting point of view. Someone could easily sue CCP for allowing players to extort other players, just take the "Pay or I'll pod kill you" ransom. While it's a virtual environment the extortion is real and against a real person - however, CCP officially supports this behavior.

To be honest, this was my first thought too and that's why I titled this thread "scam limits". The current crimes in EVE are already somewhat shady regarding laws and I really wonder that no one tried to sue CCP yet. Harassment, ransoms, blackmails, insults and personal attacks are common in EVE.


Lemok Sonji wrote:

And if you are worried about someone catching you for stealing online information, that is a pretty dump of a concern coming from someone who wants to blackmail another...


Clam down, take a deep breath and be cute again. You can be sure, I'm not involved in any criminal act, else I wouldn't have post here.

The bought ISK/items are in game right now and maybe you already got paid with it without knowing - but not knowing doesn't protect you from losing it. The only difference between me and you would be that I claim to know it - that's an advantage on my side because I'm aware that I may lose it. There is no rule that forces me to report a cheater - it's up to me if I do or not and I'm not violating the TOS if I decide not to do. I really doubt that CCP doesn't know who did RMT but if they ban every player involved in RMT the server would be pretty empty - so their only option is to keep it within acceptable limits.

The blackmail alone is questionable and after reading thru all the posts (thanks to all for that at this point!) I decided not to do it. I would take the risk to be banned but I'm not interested being sued by a mad RMTer because I blackmailed him/her in-game.
Tommy Shanks
#38 - 2012-01-17 01:55:27 UTC
You seem to be slightly confused about ingame and out-of-game.

Your victim did something out of game and you are blackmailing them over the thing they did out of game.

Ingame = fake
Out of game = not fake

Blackmailing somebody in game over something they did ingame is fake.
Blackmailing somebody in game over something they did in real life isn't fake blackmail.
StonerPhReaK
Herb Men
#39 - 2012-01-17 02:21:34 UTC
What does ^^ and RTM mean?

Signatures wer cooler when we couldn't remove them completely.
Tommy Shanks
#40 - 2012-01-17 04:00:12 UTC
It means that if you are going to commit a real crime you're far better off asking for real cash and not silly game money.

Dude's toon isn't blackmailing another toon - the dude intends to actually blackmail another dude behind a keyboard.

It's like doing a home invasion on family night but only stealing the monopoly money...
Previous page123Next page