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Ganked in highsec Concord never showed up

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Senicided
Scramicide
#21 - 2016-06-23 15:08:06 UTC
Pandora Carrollon wrote:
Iria Ahrens wrote:
It's possible he shot one of your rats so that the wreck was owned by him. So you looted it and became yellow.
It's also possible that he looted a wreck and dropped a canister so that you looted it and became yellow.


If your safety is on, you can't loot a wreck that isn't yours, at least in the tests I've done you can't.

It's possible they baited Concord to the far side of the system which will slow the response, but 45 seconds should be enough to get Concord about anywhere in any system.

If someone has found a way around HiSec mechanics, that's a game kick offense so I'm interested to see the outcome.

These guys have to be 100% cocky confident in their approach because you can't take down a Tengu with a cheap ship so standard Suicide Gank mechanics would not be in play. That means they must know of the loophole they are exploiting.

Is it possible this site is in some kind of grid black hole that Concord can't respond to?



The only thing im 100% sure of is that i didnt shoot back until i was totally %#%#!ed. as far as how everything else works, ive already said im a noob thats why im here. I have a ticket in so hopefully they will shed some light on what happened. i will report back.

I just want to reiterate that im not here crying or accusing anyone of cheating im just confused and looking for answers

Thanks again everyone.
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#22 - 2016-06-23 15:09:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Iria Ahrens
Senicided wrote:


So after reading all the reply's I'm going to chalk this one up as i got @#$%$@. and were done.

Thanks again everyone lots of good info and advice i appreciate it.


In general, you seem to have the right attitude. But it is important to figure out how you get screwed, and not just acknowledge that you did.

Also, we are all curious now if this was a trick or an exploit. There are mechanics in place to prevent many tricks against newbies.

Unfortunately, that ticket might take a while, like days or more than a week. They are pretty busy right now. So don't let it stop your play.

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#23 - 2016-06-23 15:11:10 UTC
Senicided wrote:
The Tackler was yellow when he warped in. i did not shoot at him.

his friends turned yellow when they attacked me.

they had not visted me earlier.

ive been back playing for a grand total of like 3 days now so i have no idea how anyone would have killrights.

im not accusing them of cheating im just a noob thats trying to understand how to prevent this from happening again. i thought i was safe, i did what i remember doing when i played years ago (survive long enough for concord to save me).

I'm not accusing anyone of cheating I'm not really even upset I'm simply trying to understand what/how it happened.

So after reading all the reply's I'm going to chalk this one up as i got @#$%$@. and were done.

Thanks again everyone lots of good info and advice i appreciate it.

A common tactic is for a suspect flagged (yellow) player to warp in - he then jettison's some junk, possibly names it the same thing as your character or your ship. He will then *target* you (yellow flashing box) and warp scramble *his own container*. For some reason this generates a public announcement that tells you he has warp scrambled whatever he named his container - which as I say he probably renamed to match your name/ship. However, he *did not* aggress *you* at this time - he only targeted you.

His friends then warped in and started remote repairing him - thus generating suspect flags for themselves and turning yellow. They may also have warp scrambled his container to generate more messages to make you *think* you were being attacked.

As soon as you shot one of them, they turned blue/green - indicating that you had activated a "limited engagement" with them - giving them permission to legally shoot you. The more you shot, the more who were allowed to shoot you.

It is hard to be 100% sure since you didn't know what to look for and memories are fallible - but this is my best guess as to what happened to you. Does it sound close to the sequence of events?



You will know if you are ever actually being suicide ganked because the player will turn *solid RED* as soon as they aggress you in any way.

Similarly had you been at war they would blink red.

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#24 - 2016-06-23 15:15:14 UTC
Wow, that's pretty tricky, would probably even fool me for a few seconds. The things they do in HS....

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2016-06-23 15:29:43 UTC
Some cool hints here, need to try this ... Twisted

I'm my own NPC alt.
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#26 - 2016-06-23 15:31:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Dirty Forum Alt
Iria Ahrens wrote:
Wow, that's pretty tricky, would probably even fool me for a few seconds. The things they do in HS....

High sec, low-sec, null-sec, or even WH space - it always pays to know/learn all of the dirty tricks for any area of space you operate in. Even if you don't exploit them yourself, you need to know how to defend against them.

@ Tipa - Have Fun and Good Luck lol Pirate

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#27 - 2016-06-23 15:41:56 UTC
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
A common tactic is for a suspect flagged (yellow) player to warp in - he then jettison's some junk, possibly names it the same thing as your character or your ship. He will then *target* you (yellow flashing box) and warp scramble *his own container*. For some reason this generates a public announcement that tells you he has warp scrambled whatever he named his container - which as I say he probably renamed to match your name/ship. However, he *did not* aggress *you* at this time - he only targeted you.

His friends then warped in and started remote repairing him - thus generating suspect flags for themselves and turning yellow. They may also have warp scrambled his container to generate more messages to make you *think* you were being attacked.

As soon as you shot one of them, they turned blue/green - indicating that you had activated a "limited engagement" with them - giving them permission to legally shoot you. The more you shot, the more who were allowed to shoot you.

It is hard to be 100% sure since you didn't know what to look for and memories are fallible - but this is my best guess as to what happened to you. Does it sound close to the sequence of events?
Interesting, I've not come across this. That's some pretty inventive use of game mechanics right there, bravo to whoever came up with that one.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#28 - 2016-06-23 16:57:18 UTC
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
Iria Ahrens wrote:
Wow, that's pretty tricky, would probably even fool me for a few seconds. The things they do in HS....

High sec, low-sec, null-sec, or even WH space - it always pays know/learn all of the dirty tricks for any area of space you operate in. Even if you don't exploit them yourself, you need to know how to defend against them.

@ Tipa - Have Fun and Good Luck lol Pirate


Truly. That is why I hang out in this board. Never stop learning in this game.

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#29 - 2016-06-23 17:59:10 UTC
For what it is worth, your aggressor, if still played by the same person, appears to be an old hand at ganking mission runners.

He's not fresh off the farm, and has a history of using advanced tactics (some of which were later deemed exploits by CCP, and nerfed or made impossible).

Certainly don't be too concerned about having fallen victim to such a committed specialist.
Senicided
Scramicide
#30 - 2016-06-23 18:33:23 UTC
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
Senicided wrote:
The Tackler was yellow when he warped in. i did not shoot at him.

his friends turned yellow when they attacked me.

they had not visted me earlier.

ive been back playing for a grand total of like 3 days now so i have no idea how anyone would have killrights.

im not accusing them of cheating im just a noob thats trying to understand how to prevent this from happening again. i thought i was safe, i did what i remember doing when i played years ago (survive long enough for concord to save me).

I'm not accusing anyone of cheating I'm not really even upset I'm simply trying to understand what/how it happened.

So after reading all the reply's I'm going to chalk this one up as i got @#$%$@. and were done.

Thanks again everyone lots of good info and advice i appreciate it.

A common tactic is for a suspect flagged (yellow) player to warp in - he then jettison's some junk, possibly names it the same thing as your character or your ship. He will then *target* you (yellow flashing box) and warp scramble *his own container*. For some reason this generates a public announcement that tells you he has warp scrambled whatever he named his container - which as I say he probably renamed to match your name/ship. However, he *did not* aggress *you* at this time - he only targeted you.

His friends then warped in and started remote repairing him - thus generating suspect flags for themselves and turning yellow. They may also have warp scrambled his container to generate more messages to make you *think* you were being attacked.

As soon as you shot one of them, they turned blue/green - indicating that you had activated a "limited engagement" with them - giving them permission to legally shoot you. The more you shot, the more who were allowed to shoot you.

It is hard to be 100% sure since you didn't know what to look for and memories are fallible - but this is my best guess as to what happened to you. Does it sound close to the sequence of events?



You will know if you are ever actually being suicide ganked because the player will turn *solid RED* as soon as they aggress you in any way.

Similarly had you been at war they would blink red.


thats some super complicated trolling going on there.. lol i like it.

but no i dont loot i just kill all the rats loot the one thing i need to to complete the mission.

The event went down in this order.

1.) I had the first room of the mission cleared and was heading to the acel gate. the guy warped in and closed distance really fast and warpscram/web me before i could react and warp out (i was a bit slow but i honestly didnt think he was gonna gank me) he was already yellow. and i remember thinking to myself... "does web/scram count as hostile action??? or does he have to shoot me?"

2.) more rats spawned (i assume because i got closer to the gate and triggered them)
his friends jumped in about the same time. (i know what your thinking i was not killed by the rats it was like 3-4 of them and the tengu doesnt give a %#%# about that kinda damage even while not moving)

3.) They started shooting me at this point i have no idea what color the tags were i wasn't paying attention to anything but my HP)

4.) when my shields got really low (at least 30 seconds) and it was clear i gonna die i shot back at the cruiser sized attacker. (yea im not good at IDing ships yet)

i died (again at least 45 sec) and got podded (instantly which left me in shock at how fast they targeted my pod)

the whole time i was basically just thinking "concord will be here any second just stay alive" but they just never came.

Anyway when i get the ticket back ill make sure to report back.




Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#31 - 2016-06-23 18:43:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Dirty Forum Alt
Senicided wrote:
thats some super complicated trolling going on there.. lol i like it.

but no i dont loot i just kill all the rats loot the one thing i need to to complete the mission.

The event went down in this order.

1.) I had the first room of the mission cleared and was heading to the acel gate. the guy warped in and closed distance really fast and warpscram/web me before i could react and warp out (i was a bit slow but i honestly didnt think he was gonna gank me) he was already yellow. and i remember thinking to myself... "does web/scram count as hostile action??? or does he have to shoot me?"

2.) more rats spawned (i assume because i got closer to the gate and triggered them)
his friends jumped in about the same time. (i know what your thinking i was not killed by the rats it was like 3-4 of them and the tengu doesnt give a %#%# about that kinda damage even while not moving)

3.) They started shooting me at this point i have no idea what color the tags were i wasn't paying attention to anything but my HP)

4.) when my shields got really low (at least 30 seconds) and it was clear i gonna die i shot back at the cruiser sized attacker. (yea im not good at IDing ships yet)

i died (again at least 45 sec) and got podded (instantly which left me in shock at how fast they targeted my pod)

the whole time i was basically just thinking "concord will be here any second just stay alive" but they just never came.

Anyway when i get the ticket back ill make sure to report back.

Yeah it wouldn't be shooting *your* loot, he would just drop something he was carrying. It is quite evil sometimes.

As for the rest here:

1) Yes, web/scram is definitely hostile action - and unless he got legal permission to engage you he should have turned solid red as he began a gank attempt - however I don't truly think this was ever a suicide gank.

2) It would really help if you could either post your loss-mails on zkillboard or even just eve-mail them to me so I can see what ships were actually involved/etc lol - kind of flying blind here with so little info to go on.

Whether you are willing to share the killmails or not though - let us know once you find out what happened, because I'm definitely curious myself, and I'm sure others are too here.


edit: As for your pod it should insta-warp if you are spamming warp hard enough. I have however heard of the game locking up as your ship explodes and by the time it takes input from you again you are locked - that might be worth a petition if you were spamming warp and the logs show it.

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
Sitting Bull Lakota
Poppins and Company
#32 - 2016-06-23 21:30:27 UTC
Senicided wrote:
The Tackler was yellow when he warped in.
his friends turned yellow when they attacked me.
Now that is interesting.

One last question: Do you use the default overview?
Could you go into your overview settings and drag the share button to a mail and send it to me? I'd like to peruse your settings.

Nevermind my theory of salt derived from pod loss. I had a might too much drinkahol last night which makes me more prone to shiptoasting than I already am.
Sitting Bull Lakota
Poppins and Company
#33 - 2016-06-23 21:54:19 UTC
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:

2) It would really help if you could either post your loss-mails on zkillboard or even just eve-mail them to me so I can see what ships were actually involved/etc lol - kind of flying blind here with so little info to go on.
The attacking ships were a worm with 2 small neuts and a salvager, and a shield repping kirin. Both characters have lost them before. EvE players sticking with what works, the losses are probably indicative of their usual fare.

It looks like the "point a container" theory will win out here, though that doesn't really explain where the killmail went. We have the pod, so one of them is api-verified. Why don't we also have the ship? I'm not a pro-circuit player, so I don't know the ins and outs of the system.
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#34 - 2016-06-23 22:03:09 UTC
Sitting Bull Lakota wrote:
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:

2) It would really help if you could either post your loss-mails on zkillboard or even just eve-mail them to me so I can see what ships were actually involved/etc lol - kind of flying blind here with so little info to go on.
The attacking ships were a worm with 2 small neuts and a salvager, and a shield repping kirin. Both characters have lost them before. EvE players sticking with what works, the losses are probably indicative of their usual fare.

It looks like the "point a container" theory will win out here, though that doesn't really explain where the killmail went. We have the pod, so one of them is api-verified. Why don't we also have the ship? I'm not a pro-circuit player, so I don't know the ins and outs of the system.

Well those 2 for sure but from his description it sounds like more than 2 were involved in this one - and they have been known to use up to 5-6 people sometimes.

The tengu final blows were presumably obtained by somebody in the fleet who doesn't have their API on the killboard - which sucks honestly.

The tengu killmails would be very helpful because not only would they show all of the ships involved, they would also tell us exactly how much damage each of them dealt, and allow us to compare it with the damage dealt by rats/etc.


Sadly in moments of confusion and excitement humans tend to lose track of a lot of details and provide fairly innacurate eyewitness accounts of events like this....so although I'm sure the OP is not intentionally lying or anything we also can't take everything he is saying as 100% true. The killmail would provide some actual hard facts to go on - even if it doesn't tell the whole story.

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
ISD Max Trix
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#35 - 2016-06-24 15:25:43 UTC
Removed a post for trolling.

ISD Max Trix

Lieutenant

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

I do not respond to EVE mails about forum moderation.
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#36 - 2016-06-24 15:34:27 UTC
ISD Max Trix wrote:
Removed a post for trolling.

Well his post was pretty bad, and I did quote him I suppose...


For those who are curious but missed it, here is a summary of what happened *without* the trolling:

In his first encounter with the mission ninja's, the OP apparently *gave* them his (intact) Raven Navy Issue...Paid them a ransom of some sort.....*AND* gave them kill rights. We never actually got any details, and I for one would still like the OP to elaborate, but I suspect he will be too embarassed.

Thus this 2nd encounter where he lost his tengu was simple kill-right activation. No mystery there.

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#37 - 2016-06-24 17:37:38 UTC
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
ISD Max Trix wrote:
Removed a post for trolling.

Well his post was pretty bad, and I did quote him I suppose...


Yea, I was like, "Where is Ralph's post.....oh."

To newbies that might be confused. If mods delete a troll post, they also delete the posts, or depending on the mods snip any following posts, that quote the troll.

NQ&A is a special sub-forum where newbies can ask questions without fearing insults and trolls. It has special rules, because the other forums are considered part of the game, and thus trolling, insults, and other behaviors that are allowed in game are allowed in the other subforums to some extent. Even on the other forums, it is possible to overstep the boundaries.

Rookie chat and help chat are also moderated, but not 24/7 so while they can be good places to get quick answers the trolls do drop in. I recommend the help channels in game though. You can learn a lot just watching the text scroll by.

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#38 - 2016-06-24 19:01:41 UTC
Iria Ahrens wrote:
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
ISD Max Trix wrote:
Removed a post for trolling.

Well his post was pretty bad, and I did quote him I suppose...


Yea, I was like, "Where is Ralph's post.....oh."

EVE Search means that no posting history is ever lost. Big smile

http://www.eve-search.com/thread/485609-1/page/2#35


Also... holy crap, the things people do to get aggression in High-Sec!

OP... try "abandoning" your wrecks when you run missions (right-click a wreck, "Abandon All"). You can still loot and salvage everything, but it removes any possible temptation or aggression mechanic that enables you to shoot a player.

Most "Mission Ninjas" get the hint when they see this and move on.

How did you Veterans start?
KaarBaak
Squirrel Team
#39 - 2016-06-24 22:57:09 UTC
It's funny...been listening to a lot of 'true crime' podcasts lately. The further into this thread I got, the more I thought "something doesn't sound quite right."

Suddenly truth is revealed and OP disappears.

Mystery solved.

Though we did get some clever gank tactics out of the thread. Big smile

KB

Dum Spiro Spero
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#40 - 2016-06-24 23:07:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Ralph King-Griffin
^^ Tells a guy to do serious and potentialy mortal harm to himself and then complains about censorship.

Go back to redit.

edit: this was a response to a troll post the isd incinerated.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
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