EVE General Discussion

LMFAO!

Some of us have bittervet trained to level 5. I personally have it at level 6


You are a minority in my experience.


A good summary. o7

Hilarious.

Actually everyone keeps just saying "a POS" - as if there were only 1 type in the entire game. And while I know that is the direction we are heading with the new structures, it is NOT true of the old ones. Unless I've missed something in the walls of ranting from you and your ilk, NOBODY ever specified a large one, least of all CCP. Do you actually have a *link* to that dev post? Also, how far before the release was the post? early dev work? just before release? We already know you guys are trying to live 8 years in the past in 2008, so please BE SPECIFIC.

Clearly you haven't killed enough medium POSes to know how weak they really are. A Citadel is roughly the equivalent of having a sieged dreadnaught on your side, but with a bit more dps and tank. In high sec. If that isn't enough for you, too bad.

Some force multipliers are bigger than others - just because an astrahus can't counter-balance a full heavy armor gang that *could* take down the *average* large POS does NOT mean it isn't acting as a force multiplier. It just isn't as big of a multiplier as you want it to be. The massively positive kill ratios of all citadel types larger than the astrahus (which tbh I'm blaming on the fact that all the noobs and morons like you are using them) is ample proof that they *do* work as force multipliers when used correctly.

Additionally, unlike POSes, the citadels don't have fixed stats. They are only as good as YOU FIT THEM TO BE. And only as good as YOUR SKILL AT CONTROLLING THEM. A good analogy would perhaps be that a good merc in a faction fit machariel can kill your entire corporation - but YOU in your faction fit missioning machariel will die to his assault frigate every time. They are only as good as their fit and their pilot allow them to be. If you aren't getting good results out of the equipment, there is a good chance it is YOUR FAULT for sucking at EVE.


Personally, I can't find a single Fortizar kill in high sec since their release. And the number of Astrahus kills is pretty low given how many citadels have already sprung up.

Stats aside, the *biggest* defense you have with these citadels is the fact that since none of the items stored in them can ever drop, the *only* reward for an annoying 2 weeks of war + timers is the module drop from the citadel itself - so most PvP groups have simply decided they aren't worth bothering with. As such, they (once again) don't need *any* combat defenses. Nobody even wants to kill them in high sec for the most part.



Leading me, once again, to my core point: S T O P - W H I N I N G

Yeah. I can't remember, but I think I made my sig because of Jenn or people who used that word too much.

I like being able to finally look out the windows and see what's outside.

Citadels rock.

I have not until this point used the word "entitlement" in any of my posts.

I'm even willing to agree with you that perhaps Jenn does over-use it *some* - and generalizes a bit far, since of course not *everyone* in high sec is like that. As previously mentioned, this is a classic symptom of advanced bittervet syndrome - which tends to be an unavoidable product of playing EVE long term. This doesn't mean that Jenn is wrong however, merely that he is speaking in general/stereotypical terms and ignoring the exceptions/outliers.


General usage aside however, in *THIS* instance people are literally complaining because they didn't get something that *THEY WERE NEVER PROMISED*. It was *NEVER EVEN HINTED AT*. They just *ASSUMED* that they were *ENTITLED* to it.

And that, my good sir, is in fact the very definition of ENTITLEMENT.

Ok posts from brainless highshool bullies aside, this is my conclusion in regards to CCP's blog statements.





At least for now, citadels do NOT replace the POSes in any other regard than large-anchorable-hangars in space. They cannot be used for manufacturing or research. They have nowhere near the defense capabilities of POSes ( ESPECIALLY for "Individual players" ), and any test on sisi ( for people that are interested in something else than exposing their 2 neurons way of thinking without actually trying ) can show that. The reason there are no fortizar kills after the initial vulnerability period is that nobody has attacked one that belongs to a small corporation yet. And most likely there will not be for a time, since most people with brains will research and think twice before investing 20 bil in something they cannot defend.

I completely understand the way a citadel works. As a new item in eve, they are fine. They fill a new niche, as better homes for alliances that can put up a defense fleet. As replacement for POSes however, they do not work as indended. Most of the POSes in hisec and w-space belong to very small corporations from 1 to 10 people who never wanted something else, or tried and got tired of CTAs and being hunted in nullsec, or simply do not want pvp. Players who have a busy RL and invest at most 3-5 hours per week in this game. They will rarely, if ever, be able to field even 4-5 ships in defense of their new structures. Also, a weird thing, some of them even take vacations 1-2 weeks at a time and go camping, hiking or relax with their families somewhere where there is no internet access. Who will man their citadel defenses then ? For those players, once the POSes are gone, if they still do not want nullsec, the game is pretty much over. If a large POS could have been destroyed only by an organized fleet of 15-20 people ( and with a good risk of losing some ships ), a citadel is easy prey for any 4-5 man gang.

What i cannot get is the need of a noisy part of the eve players to impose their way of thinking and style of playing against the others. They do not understand that some of them simply do not like nullsec and pvp, and, when they fail to convince them, they start using words like "idiots", "whiners" and the such. They gloat when they see a change in the game that makes their life harder, without thinking that, with that part of the playerbase gone, they will have to do the very thing they hate : mining, researching and manufacturing. When i saw in Niarja a bunch of pirates obliterating a freighter, there was one comment on local from the freighter's pilot : "gf" and several from the pirates, most with the same meaning "thanks for the loot, you f***ing carebear loser".

You know, nobody is calling you idiots because you do not want to live in hisec. Try show some maturity and respect the other players as they respect you.

Of course some will reply to this post with their usual brainless comments, but, unless i see something worthy to discuss, i will not bother to. I have graduated highschool long ago :)

This post is the perfect example of the kinds of high sec people I'm talking about:


-Personal issues (but i want to go fishing/camping but can't because of space structures!!!) seen as something CCP needs to fix for them? Check

-Preoccupation with the idea that someone doesn't like their "playstyle" because they explained the realities of EVE to them? Check

-Rejecting simple logical solutions to their problem (if you can't defend it don't put it up!) for nonsense 'reasons' that resmeble crying and a feeling of entitlement? Oh so Check

-Defaulting to calling people "bullies" because those people explained that they are being silly? SJW check

-Pretending that they speak for "the player base" (and offering up the empty "people will quit the game" threat) rather than being truthful and saying "this is just my personal opinion, but I don't like this"? Double Check

-Acting like the problem is pvp or null sec when niether pvp nor null sec has anything to do with it (although they DID choose to play a pvp-centric game btw)? Final ultimate Check.


In other words, typical high sec poster. Yea it's a generalization, it just also happens to be true as anyone who spends any time in GD can attest.

I don't think they ever will to be honest, but I am speaking of one piece of functionality in particular: the ability to store a super capital. Sure you can dock them up in keepstars, but the price point of a keepstar keeps them far out of reach of most alliances, where as right now, I can go out and buy a XLSMA pos w/ faction guns for just over 1b isk. (Yes, I know someone can buy a sitter toon and safe log it off a citadel, but even that is flawed since ships can be bumped off a citadel.)