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Dev Blog: Bidding Farewell to the In-game Browser

First post First post First post
Author
Farmer Johnson's Daughter
United Federation Of Space Dealers
Already Replaced.
#281 - 2016-06-22 16:52:54 UTC
Oliver Ward wrote:
Farmer Johnson's Daughter wrote:

Enjoy your time and keep pissing off devs, then wonder why your game has such crap 3rd party dev support.

EVE has some of the best third-party dev support in the entire gaming industry. Sure, there aren't modders like Elder Scrolls and similar games have, but that's because EVE is an MMO. The type and quality of software that EVE has available for it is absolutely top-notch compared to what exists for pretty much every other game.



HAHA ...no. It's actually the opposite. Take one look at the db schema and most devs have the same thought id imagine: "Is this a joke? An April fools day prank. It cant actually be structured like this can it?"


As I said before I shouldn't need to query about 3-7 different tables in a db just to find out what something is made of. Honestly it looks like to me that the db was started back in the day when someone really had no idea on how to do it properly, and stuck with the legacy code/schema, the new devs are doing the best they can.

As a dev myself I understand what it's like to inherit a crap db, api etc.

If you want gigantic 3rd party support make it easier for devs to work with the data. That's my .02
bucegi
Firman AB
#282 - 2016-06-22 18:12:43 UTC  |  Edited by: bucegi
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Sheeana Harb wrote:
I will be very frank here:

The (upcoming) removal of the IGB will make my ingame experience considerably less enjoyable. I use it quite often while in nullsec. Neither of the alternatives suggested in the devblog are good enough.

I'm very unhappy that the IGB is going away.


This food sucks.

VS

Any chance I could get this food without the nuts? I am actually allergic to them. :)

Once of those statements is useful the other is not. Care to take a guess which is yours?


Yo FoxFour, you don't respect the paying customers do you? Anyone can see that reading between your lines........
Anyway, glad to see how many players use the IGB. Could be something wrong with CCP metrics? :)
Tass Caffington
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#283 - 2016-06-22 18:45:01 UTC
Did CCP just kill Tripwire?

hmmmmm.....

WiNGSPAN Delivery Services

"We're not happy until you're content!"

Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#284 - 2016-06-22 19:31:26 UTC
Tass Caffington wrote:
Did CCP just kill Tripwire?

hmmmmm.....



Only if Tripwire doesn't update to using the location service CCP have provided.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Obil Que
Star Explorers
Solis Tenebris
#285 - 2016-06-22 20:08:31 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Tass Caffington wrote:
Did CCP just kill Tripwire?

hmmmmm.....



Only if Tripwire doesn't update to using the location service CCP have provided.


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6536713#post6536713

Certainly headed that way
MicroNova
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
#286 - 2016-06-23 02:53:45 UTC
I completely understand the motives for wanting to get away from the IGB. However, CREST is missing some very useful API's in comparison. This won't be a 1:1 change over by a far stretch, we're going to lose substantial capability from mature tool sets.

Before you take away the IGB can you please update CREST to offer the following?

- Report when a character logs in to the game client
- Return the name and type of ship being flown
- Report if a character is docked or not

Without the above we lose the ability to:
- Track online vs offline pilots.
- Track the ship being flown which in turn allows tracking mass used on a WH, fleet comp (Kitchen SINK!!!!!), and other details.
- Track new links vs pilots who have been podded to K space stations.
- And to be purposefully vague, cross coordinate with other data for some really useful advanced features.

The creators of other mapping tools should chime in, but I think the above covers the vast majority of capability that everyone has pretty much universally implemented as well as providing the tools we need to implement (or maintain) more advanced features.

Pretty please?
Zar Myx
New Eden Browncoats
#287 - 2016-06-23 05:08:53 UTC
[quote=Leo Apocrypha
I want to start off by saying, this post concerns me. Not only does it make you the person that says "no, pick the nuts out yourself." (which doesn't really solve the problem) I've never seen such a hostile response from a dev to someone just for posting their opinion. Especially when theres so many posts of people completely over-dramatizing the effect this will have on their gameplay experience. [/quote]

I agree the post may be perceived as a little hostile, but CCP devs are just people after all. But overall, pretty sure they are just asking for more than general complaining, and looking for actual reasons and required functionality that may be lost. Poor CCP devs take tons of **** from us passionate players (including myself on more than one occasion). Be thankful you have access to them via the forums and other media.
Geronimo McVain
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#288 - 2016-06-23 06:38:55 UTC
Why not take a total different approach? Keeping up the browser is too much work for CCP. Okay! Why does the IGB have to adapt? Websites are changing. Okay, but do you need to access such websites??????

The IGB is for browsing sites connected to eve. So why not just whitelisting pages that use the EVE API + some wikis and put restriction on them that the IGB can handle them?
I don't need youtube videos in the IGB or news sides.

Don't change the IGB change the websites and the sites and whitelist what the IGB can handle instead of trying to keep up with web development.
Axhind
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
#289 - 2016-06-23 08:32:11 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Tass Caffington wrote:
Did CCP just kill Tripwire?

hmmmmm.....



Only if Tripwire doesn't update to using the location service CCP have provided.


Except that tons of people are reporting issues with that part of CREST (for me it works once in a blue moon). As long as CREST is unreliable as it seems to be right now the tool is dead.

And all that still doesn't solve the issues of, crazy but we still love them, fullscreen users.
Erebus 'TheChin' Sundance
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#290 - 2016-06-23 10:24:50 UTC
Hi o/

I just wondered what will happen to bookmarks currently saved in the IGB? Will they be removed/not accessible when it finally ceases to be?

Should I be moving them to a in game note, or out of game browser bookmarks (I use Firefox) for future use etc...


Thanks in advance for any clarity on this matter.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#291 - 2016-06-23 12:02:49 UTC
MicroNova wrote:
I completely understand the motives for wanting to get away from the IGB. However, CREST is missing some very useful API's in comparison. This won't be a 1:1 change over by a far stretch, we're going to lose substantial capability from mature tool sets.

Before you take away the IGB can you please update CREST to offer the following?

- Report when a character logs in to the game client
- Return the name and type of ship being flown
- Report if a character is docked or not

Without the above we lose the ability to:
- Track online vs offline pilots.
- Track the ship being flown which in turn allows tracking mass used on a WH, fleet comp (Kitchen SINK!!!!!), and other details.
- Track new links vs pilots who have been podded to K space stations.
- And to be purposefully vague, cross coordinate with other data for some really useful advanced features.

The creators of other mapping tools should chime in, but I think the above covers the vast majority of capability that everyone has pretty much universally implemented as well as providing the tools we need to implement (or maintain) more advanced features.

Pretty please?



The IGB doesn't allow for reporting on online/offline. (sure, you can look at who's coming in with an IGB user agent, but that's far from perfect. easily spoofable)


With fleet comp, there's a crest endpoint which returns all of that (including where the pilot is and what ship they're flying)

The location endpoint does let you know if they're in station or not.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Cervix Thumper
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#292 - 2016-06-23 14:14:51 UTC
Maybe an over simplistic question:
I use the IGB to register my folks to our website via AuthOrange. What would be the typical work around to this?

DrysonBennington
Eagle's Talon's
#293 - 2016-06-23 14:43:11 UTC  |  Edited by: DrysonBennington
Tracking your character’s location

I think this function would be a handy tool for all Capsuleer's but for Bounty Hunter's especially.

After learning a Locator Skill each Capsuleer could add an additional five other Capsuleer's to their Locator Service. The TI skill would only allow up to 25 Capsuleer's to be tracked at level five. The total tracking distance would be ten jumps at level five.

If a Tracker is moving through systems and has other pilots in their Locator Service the pilot would appear on the Locator Service Screen. Once the Tracker moves out of the range of the pilot the pilots location disappears from the screen until the Tracker moves into range again.

With the TII skill the distance of the service is increased by 2 systems for a total range of 10 systems plus the original 10 TI systems giving the service a total of 20 jumps to track a person with. At level five for the TII skill and additional five pilots are able to be added for a total of 30 pilots that can be tracked at any one time.

Although the system is brilliant and genius to say the least on my part but there is a catch. When ever a pilot in the service comes into tracking range of the Locator Service a bill is issued to the Pilot for 100,000 ISK per half hour per name that the Tracker comes into contact with a name on their list. So if there are two pilots on the Tracker's list it would cost the Tracker 200,000 ISK for having the Service locate the names on the list and then 400,000 ISK for an hour and so forth.

Another drawback is that after five minutes of coming into contact with a name on the Tracker's list the contact is notified that they are being tracked by someone. The tracked could then pay a fee of 100,000 ISK to find out who is tracking them.

The Locator Service could be a way to replace the Locator Agents that have become obsolete given the fact that a star gate registers who comes into and out of system that is kept in a local database that is accessible to all except for those who pay to keep their names out of the main stream.

Third party services are great but need to be tied into an icon on the main GUI.
Cervix Thumper
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#294 - 2016-06-23 15:46:03 UTC
DrysonBennington wrote:
Tracking your character’s location.



But isn't that planned to go away with the player built intelligence station? Where we would charge our own rates to use a locator agent?
Belagra SiQ
Something Something Something Something Darkside
#295 - 2016-06-23 18:11:22 UTC
With the IGB it was so easy to track my location for my own local tools:
0. Open port 8080
1. Let IGB execute CCPEVE.requestTrust("http://localhost:8080/")
Let IGB execute "function delay() { jQuery.get("/update"); setTimeout(function() { delay(); }, 30000); }; delay();"
2. Server parses HTML headers from GET Request to /update
3. Profit

How is that suppose to work with the CREST stuff?
Anyone got location tracking working with a local application?
MicroNova
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
#296 - 2016-06-24 03:35:28 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:



The IGB doesn't allow for reporting on online/offline. (sure, you can look at who's coming in with an IGB user agent, but that's far from perfect. easily spoofable)


Actually it does, by default you can't be logged into the IGB unless you are logged into the game, which is not your point, but there is currently a way to tell who is on or offline with the IGB. I can see niche use cases for needing to worry about spoofing, but that's a minor concern. What's important is seeing who's there and who isn't.

Steve Ronuken wrote:

With fleet comp, there's a crest endpoint which returns all of that (including where the pilot is and what ship they're flying)


That's certainly a workaround, but wouldn't it be simpler to just provide the data directly? Why add an additional layer of requiring them to be in a fleet? And did this get implemented? Best I can tell it was in progress but it was superseded by something more important.

Steve Ronuken wrote:

The location endpoint does let you know if they're in station or not.


Delightful.
Telistra
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#297 - 2016-06-24 04:27:18 UTC
Remove a possible security issue that could cost money to maintain.
Remove old code that will cost money to maintain
Move to a system that players can use with 3rd parties that will not cost money for CCP to maintain outside of CREST.

Money is awesome.
CCP Darwin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#298 - 2016-06-24 13:48:44 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Darwin
Zar Myx wrote:
But overall, pretty sure they are just asking for more than general complaining, and looking for actual reasons and required functionality that may be lost.

Exactly this.

Removing the in-game browser from the game does take away a significant convenience feature, but as a result, it's the kind of thing the team wouldn't do unless it were really, truly necessary. Saying "Wow, I don't like this because it'll be inconvenient" just tells them about the downside to their choice that they already know about.

However, a reason this is being announced some months in advance is to learn about where players and 3rd party developers expect the pain points to be. The more you post about those specific concerns, the more the team might be able to do to address the worst of them.

Edit: For clarity, I am not working on the in-game browser, but you can apply this principle to most feedback threads for changes where we remove functionality from the game.

CCP Darwin  •  Senior Software Engineer, Art & Graphics, EVE Online  •  @mark_wilkins

Cade Windstalker
#299 - 2016-06-24 14:37:04 UTC
CCP Darwin wrote:
Zar Myx wrote:
But overall, pretty sure they are just asking for more than general complaining, and looking for actual reasons and required functionality that may be lost.

Exactly this.

Removing the in-game browser from the game does take away a significant convenience feature, but as a result, it's the kind of thing the team wouldn't do unless it were really, truly necessary. Saying "Wow, I don't like this because it'll be inconvenient" just tells them about the downside to their choice that they already know about.

However, a reason this is being announced some months in advance is to learn about where players and 3rd party developers expect the pain points to be. The more you post about those specific concerns, the more the team might be able to do to address the worst of them.

Edit: For clarity, I am not working on the in-game browser, but you can apply this principle to most feedback threads for changes where we remove functionality from the game.


Heck, I think you can apply a broader version of this idea to any change thread CCP makes. Well considered feedback, pointing out potential edge cases, and anything backed up by math or hard evidence will always trump "I don't like this, I think it's bad, WTF CCP!!??!?!"
Ageanal Olerie
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#300 - 2016-06-24 16:37:26 UTC

Well again, I think many would accept having this feature left in but as an option one would need to check under "Old unsupported features" (turned off by default). Float over text "These features are no longer supported and are provided As Is. "

Outside of that, are there NO 3rd party companies which provide browser functionallity for games that can be opened in an in-game window?

Or are there such companies and they are just too expensive to licence from?