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DO NOT BELIEVE IT

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Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#41 - 2016-06-22 16:27:25 UTC
bardghost Isu wrote:
But the astrahus is not what CCP had claimed it was going to be.

This seems to be people's primary objection to the citadels. Not that there is anything wrong with them really, just that people EXPECTED more out of them based on preliminary dev posts.


What really perplexes me is why anyone is still surprised by this sort of thing....

There are of course hundreds of broken promises/dreams I could use as examples, but there is one that stands out the most as far as how ridiculously excited everyone got over it, and how disappointing it really turned out to be:


Walking In Stations



Just be glad they are as close to what was advertised as they are. And seriously, stop whining, it isn't going to do you any good. It just makes people want to give you something to cry about.

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
Smendrik Von'Smendle
HighSecers United
#42 - 2016-06-22 16:33:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Smendrik Von'Smendle
So you didn't get something as advertised? Oh boo hoo just take your 1000km drag bubble and be happy with that!
Joey Bags
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#43 - 2016-06-22 16:36:47 UTC
My two ISK. The entirety of citadel features and benefits has not released yet and that is why outposts and POS's are still there and deployable. It's a new toy ATM and not a replacement for existing structures. Given what CCP has done in the past and some of their stated goals for the future it is obvious that citadels are meant to work as a SOV mechanic to reduce the amount of SOV many of the super alliances hold. It is a fairly difficult (and it should be difficult) task to conquer SOV from even a moderately sized alliance and practically impossible to dislodge SOV from some of the giant sized ones (NIP agreements and coalitions notwithstanding).

You can pick your friends and you can pick your nose but you can't pick your friends nose. Unless you podded them...and collected their corpse.
Chewytowel Haklar
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#44 - 2016-06-22 16:50:19 UTC
I do not believe the voices in my head, they tell me things see. The voices also tell me that I will be able to make a Stargate to a private part of the universe where no one can hurt me. No more bad touch it said. I DON'T BELIEVE IT!
bardghost Isu
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#45 - 2016-06-22 16:56:38 UTC
Smendrik Von'Smendle wrote:
So you didn't get something as advertised? Oh boo hoo just take your 1000km drag bubble and be happy with that!


Well that's the point people are making, That cant be done in High-sec (Not sure about low) a fair few people feel that they've been screwed over by the devs
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#46 - 2016-06-22 17:01:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Dirty Forum Alt
bardghost Isu wrote:
Smendrik Von'Smendle wrote:
So you didn't get something as advertised? Oh boo hoo just take your 1000km drag bubble and be happy with that!


Well that's the point people are making, That cant be done in High-sec (Not sure about low) a fair few people feel that they've been screwed over by the devs

TBH the only "broken promise" i've even seen in this thread is that it isn't as good as a maxed out large faction tower deathstar POS....

It is the *smallest* citadel people are whining about (presumably they are too poor for the large one?) - and it is pretty comparable in defenses to a maxed out non-faction small/medium POS... (which are routinely killed with 3-5 ships when people are bored).

Plus of course all the other OP features that make it invulnerable 99% of the time and limit damage so 5 ships or 500 do the same damage to it, etc...

Did CCP actually specify a large faction deathstar as the POS it would be equivalent to? Or did they do exactly as advertised and make it roughly equivalent to a *similarly sized* POS?

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#47 - 2016-06-22 17:20:40 UTC
I think there is a reason most of the complaining about Astrahuses comes from high sec, and that is that the average high sec player has an 'all or nothing' type attitude.

The Medium Citadel is perfectly defensible, it just won't let you solo blap a well prepared attacking fleet like a POS can. High Sec players put them up like they do POSes and expect to be able to leverage the game's mechanics to keep them safe. But medium citadels don't work like that. in ALL parts of space they require a defense fleet to ensure their survival.

That all or nothing attitude is Pervasive in high sec, you can see it with high sec miners ("even if i tank my mining ship, they will just bring more ganking ships so why bother tanking it, ill just fit for max yield!"), haulers ("I can still be bumped even if i bring a webbing alt, even with the anti-bumping warp mechanic, so CCP needs to do more!") and mission runners ("they are going to gank me anyways, might as well put that gist x type booster on"). And now with high sec Medium Citadel owners...

In other words, it's not the nature of the Medium Citadel, it' the natures of the high sec players who complain about them even when they see others of us outside of high sec using them easily. There is no help for that.
Pax Deltari
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2016-06-22 17:27:22 UTC
They did't make it equivalent to an equally priced POS.

Also it's interesting how walking in stations has plagued CCP. No one actually gives a **** about being able to walk in stations. It's just a symbol for broken promises.
Unconspicous Alt
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#49 - 2016-06-22 17:31:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Unconspicous Alt
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
It is the *smallest* citadel people are whining about (presumably they are too poor for the large one?) - and it is pretty comparable in defenses to a maxed out non-faction small/medium POS... (which are routinely killed with 3-5 ships when people are bored).

Did CCP actually specify a large faction deathstar as the POS it would be equivalent to? Or did they do exactly as advertised and make it roughly equivalent to a *similarly sized* POS?


"While the medium structures should be similar to a fully fitted Starbase".
However what most people here fail to realize is that even the large citadel ( fortizar ), with all the battle rigs, nullsec and skill bonuses, can be easily destroyed by the same number of subcaps ( < 10 ). Might get lucky and destroy the ships that come closer than 20km with the point defense battery but otherwise the 4 antisubcap missiles and one bomb launcher ( can only fit one ) cannot destroy even one faction fitted battleship. Try it on the test server if you dont believe it. If that happens in a w-system that offers bonuses for shield/armor, only very badly fitted ships can be lost against that citadel.

More is described here in a test server feedback post that predates the launch of the expansion. My favorite is this one "One of my sivpuls was able to tank a keepstar when confiq to anti sub cap while double webbed and scrammed.. "
Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
#50 - 2016-06-22 17:49:15 UTC
Pax Deltari wrote:
They did't make it equivalent to an equally priced POS.

Also it's interesting how walking in stations has plagued CCP. No one actually gives a **** about being able to walk in stations. It's just a symbol for broken promises.


I care about walking in stations.

Poor Gadget is starting to put on some space pounds.

--Gadget

Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist

Given an hour to save New Eden, how would respected scientist, Albertus Eisenstein compose his thoughts? "Fifty-five minutes to define the problem; save the galaxy in five."
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#51 - 2016-06-22 17:53:54 UTC
Unconspicous Alt wrote:
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
It is the *smallest* citadel people are whining about (presumably they are too poor for the large one?) - and it is pretty comparable in defenses to a maxed out non-faction small/medium POS... (which are routinely killed with 3-5 ships when people are bored).

Did CCP actually specify a large faction deathstar as the POS it would be equivalent to? Or did they do exactly as advertised and make it roughly equivalent to a *similarly sized* POS?


"While the medium structures should be similar to a fully fitted Starbase".
However what most people here fail to realize is that even the large citadel ( fortizar ), with all the battle rigs, nullsec and skill bonuses, can be easily destroyed by the same number of subcaps ( < 10 ). Might get lucky and destroy the ships that come closer than 20km with the point defense battery but otherwise the 4 antisubcap missiles and one bomb launcher ( can only fit one ) cannot destroy even one faction fitted battleship. Try it on the test server if you dont believe it. If that happens in a w-system that offers bonuses for shield/armor, only very badly fitted ships can be lost against that citadel.

More is described here in a test server feedback post that predates the launch of the expansion. My favorite is this one "One of my sivpuls was able to tank a keepstar when confiq to anti sub cap while double webbed and scrammed.. "


The TL;DR of this post should be "but I shouldn't have to make friends, the old system let me blap people solo"!

At no point do people like this examine the idea that maybe what they could do in the past was the thing that was broken, not the new thing they are complaining about.
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#52 - 2016-06-22 17:55:19 UTC
Pax Deltari wrote:
They did't make it equivalent to an equally priced POS.

Also it's interesting how walking in stations has plagued CCP. No one actually gives a **** about being able to walk in stations. It's just a symbol for broken promises.

CCP does not set prices. Players do. Give it time and the price will fall. It is not CCP's fault that you are an impatient idiot.

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#53 - 2016-06-22 18:03:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Dirty Forum Alt
Unconspicous Alt wrote:
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
It is the *smallest* citadel people are whining about (presumably they are too poor for the large one?) - and it is pretty comparable in defenses to a maxed out non-faction small/medium POS... (which are routinely killed with 3-5 ships when people are bored).

Did CCP actually specify a large faction deathstar as the POS it would be equivalent to? Or did they do exactly as advertised and make it roughly equivalent to a *similarly sized* POS?


"While the medium structures should be similar to a fully fitted Starbase".
However what most people here fail to realize is that even the large citadel ( fortizar ), with all the battle rigs, nullsec and skill bonuses, can be easily destroyed by the same number of subcaps ( < 10 ). Might get lucky and destroy the ships that come closer than 20km with the point defense battery but otherwise the 4 antisubcap missiles and one bomb launcher ( can only fit one ) cannot destroy even one faction fitted battleship. Try it on the test server if you dont believe it. If that happens in a w-system that offers bonuses for shield/armor, only very badly fitted ships can be lost against that citadel.

More is described here in a test server feedback post that predates the launch of the expansion. My favorite is this one "One of my sivpuls was able to tank a keepstar when confiq to anti sub cap while double webbed and scrammed.. "

You clearly suck.

NOBODY has killed one yet with less than 15 people - and that one wasn't even fit. AT ALL. The average number of players being used is between 50 and 500 (for a Fortizar).

The *largest* citadel is the Keepstar (so far) - and NOBODY HAS KILLED ONE. AT ALL.

The only citadel dieing to small fleets AT ALL is the astrahus - and as advertized it is equivalent to a small/medium POS and can be killed by 3-5 people.



You are also continuing to ignore the fact that only 5-10 people are *allowed* to apply damage to your stupid citadel at any given time. Even if they bring 100, 90% of their damage is just magically ignored...

If a giant blob wants to kill your Citadel, they should be allowed to apply full dps and wipe it out in 30 seconds. They should also be able to shoot it at *any time* - not just when you feel it is convenient for you to have it vulnerable.

Citadels *are* broken - they are far too safe and secure. Whiners like you do not deserve these benefits and protections from CCP. I demand a nerf.



edit: Incidentally - not a single citadel larger than the smallest one (the astrahus) has actually been lost in high sec AT ALL - and very few astrahuses have managed to be lost in high sec either...

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
Fumya
Black Wormholes of Apocrypha
TOGETHER WE STAND
#54 - 2016-06-22 18:15:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Fumya
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
You clearly suck.

NOBODY has killed one yet with less than 15 people - and that one wasn't even fit. AT ALL. The average number of players being used is between 50 and 500 (for a Fortizar).

The *largest* citadel is the Keepstar (so far) - and NOBODY HAS KILLED ONE. AT ALL.

The only citadel dieing to small fleets AT ALL is the astrahus - and as advertized it is equivalent to a small/medium POS and can be killed by 3-5 people.

You are also continuing to ignore the fact that only 5-10 people are *allowed* to apply damage to your stupid citadel at any given time. Even if they bring 100, 90% of their damage is just magically ignored...

If a giant blob wants to kill your Citadel, they should be allowed to apply full dps and wipe it out in 30 seconds. They should also be able to shoot it at *any time* - not just when you feel it is convenient for you to have it vulnerable.

Citadels *are* broken - they are far too safe and secure. Whiners like you do not deserve these benefits and protections from CCP. I demand a nerf.



I usually do not write on forums but this time i feel compelled to tell you that you are an idiot. No matter how polite have people replied to you, you resort to cursing and offense towards anyone that does not share your opinion. That is, beside that fact that you have been several times ranting way past the subject of the OP, and also have already proved at least twice that you have no idea what you are talking about. You were presented with evidence but refuse to read it or try it on the test server. You also impose, by a very rude language, your opinion about things you yourself admit have not even try yet.

Obviously the OP and the rest of the people here are too polite to tell you in the face, but i cannot refrain myself to inform you that you are by far the biggest imbecile i have seen in these forums until now.
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#55 - 2016-06-22 18:20:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Dirty Forum Alt
Fumya wrote:
and also have already proved at least twice that you have no idea what you are talking about.

Are you referring to the posts claiming I'm wrong based on mechanics from 2008? You realize that was 8 ****ING YEARS AGO right? The game has changed since then... The fact that you are too pathetically stupid and lazy to look up the *current* mechanics does not mean we all travel back in time to the mechanics you think are still in use....seriously....

All that has been proven is that I am 100% right, and you idiots will persist in believing whatever you want to believe regardless of evidence.


As for my abrasive manner - I have little patience for idiots. I also feel compelled to inform you that *you* are one of the idiots here.

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
Fumya
Black Wormholes of Apocrypha
TOGETHER WE STAND
#56 - 2016-06-22 18:26:14 UTC
I am referring to these posts, you imbecile. Learn to treat people in a polite manner so you can look like you have more than 4 neurons in that pitiful brain of yours.

Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
TBH my main problem with Citadels is that everything stored inside them is magically 100% safe no matter what, and can even be transported an infinite distance from inside a secluded wormhole to a safe npc-owned station
An undefended player owned outpost requires any solo ship to destroy.Learn 2 EVE.
I am also inclined to believe that your fittings on both your citadel and your carriers suck - along with your skills.
You guys are clearly just grasping at straws to give yourself reasons to whine, and ignoring all of the unprecedented benefits that are being thrown at you with these new structures. HTFU or GTFO.
It is not CCP's fault that you are an impatient idiot.
That is why he is whining (and presumably why he built a citadel)
Are you people literally this clueless about current game mechanics?
This whiny and overly defensive attitude[...] This is why everyone treats you like a no-life idiot.
You clearly suck.
Whiners like you do not deserve these benefits and protections from CCP. I demand a nerf.
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#57 - 2016-06-22 18:28:18 UTC
Fumya wrote:
I am referring to these posts, you imbecile. Learn to treat people in a polite manner so you can look like you have more than 4 neurons in that pitiful brain of yours.

Dirty Forum Alt wrote:
TBH my main problem with Citadels is that everything stored inside them is magically 100% safe no matter what, and can even be transported an infinite distance from inside a secluded wormhole to a safe npc-owned station
An undefended player owned outpost requires any solo ship to destroy.Learn 2 EVE.
I am also inclined to believe that your fittings on both your citadel and your carriers suck - along with your skills.
You guys are clearly just grasping at straws to give yourself reasons to whine, and ignoring all of the unprecedented benefits that are being thrown at you with these new structures. HTFU or GTFO.
It is not CCP's fault that you are an impatient idiot.
That is why he is whining (and presumably why he built a citadel)
Are you people literally this clueless about current game mechanics?
This whiny and overly defensive attitude[...] This is why everyone treats you like a no-life idiot.
You clearly suck.
Whiners like you do not deserve these benefits and protections from CCP. I demand a nerf.


So I didn't know the items weren't safe inside of a wh - that is the only thing I was wrong about....and it isn't even relevant to the topic at hand...You really are grasping at straws...

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#58 - 2016-06-22 18:28:30 UTC

#clawsarecomingout

☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Unconspicous Alt
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#59 - 2016-06-22 18:34:36 UTC
Fumya wrote:
Obviously the OP and the rest of the people here are too polite to tell you in the face,


Thank you but please do not bother. Everyone here already has a very good idea about this guy's real intelligence. For the such like him, the best way is to ignore them. They do not write anything worth reading anyways.
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#60 - 2016-06-22 18:35:07 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:
#clawsarecomingout

Indeed. If people put half this much effort into defending their citadels instead of trying to defend their imaginary grievances against CCP and crying they wouldn't have anything to worry about P

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)