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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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View the cycles of enemy neuts
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Shark Dubois
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2016-06-21 12:41:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Shark Dubois
Like ECM cycles, it'd be great to show the cycles of neuts, vamps, and other remote effect modules applied to our ships. That would allow us to manage our cap and modules better and could prove useful in tricky situations.

You could let the first cycle period be unknown, then the ship calculates the time it takes for that module to affect your ship for the second time, thus giving you an estimate of each cycle that you could use as reference for the following of the fight.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#2 - 2016-06-21 13:54:00 UTC
So what you are saying is that you want to see what your opponent has fit, when she / he turns on a mod, turns it off or overheats it, what if any links apply to her / him, where the support if any is positioned or waiting and when a potential targeted mod could hurt your feelings or boat?

I believe we have something like this, it is called twitch.

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Shark Dubois
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2016-06-21 19:26:18 UTC
what are you talking about? if someone is applying an effect on your ship, your ship should be able to calculate the average interval between when each effect takes place. it's not rocket science. it's actually abnormal that your ship doesn't show you this vital information.
Cade Windstalker
#4 - 2016-06-21 19:43:58 UTC
OP while you have a point that there's some loss of consistency here I would argue that the ECM feature is more about removing frustration from an already frustrating mechanic than anything else, and this doesn't really nerf ECM in any way, it just makes it more obvious when you can lock things again without spamming the server with "can I lock this thing yet!?!?" requests.

The "anything else" for Neuts specifically being the ability to time your cap boosts or module activations to avoid the effects of the neut, which would be a pretty significant nerf to them.

As things stand a good player is going to stagger their neuts, and giving away this stagger pattern would be a hit to good players who don't just mash their f-row when running neuts and nos. It would also create a UI problem, with the neut cycle either not providing much in the way of usable information or taking up massive amounts of screen real-estate as every single neut that Carrier has on it fills the screen.

Also, elitatwo, that's hyperbole and not really a productive contribution.
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
#5 - 2016-06-21 19:47:52 UTC
Shark Dubois wrote:
what are you talking about? if someone is applying an effect on your ship, your ship should be able to calculate the average interval between when each effect takes place.


Why?
Shark Dubois
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2016-06-21 20:15:47 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
OP while you have a point that there's some loss of consistency here I would argue that the ECM feature is more about removing frustration from an already frustrating mechanic than anything else, and this doesn't really nerf ECM in any way, it just makes it more obvious when you can lock things again without spamming the server with "can I lock this thing yet!?!?" requests.

The "anything else" for Neuts specifically being the ability to time your cap boosts or module activations to avoid the effects of the neut, which would be a pretty significant nerf to them.

As things stand a good player is going to stagger their neuts, and giving away this stagger pattern would be a hit to good players who don't just mash their f-row when running neuts and nos. It would also create a UI problem, with the neut cycle either not providing much in the way of usable information or taking up massive amounts of screen real-estate as every single neut that Carrier has on it fills the screen.

Also, elitatwo, that's hyperbole and not really a productive contribution.


First, thanks for your productive comment.
Second, this feature should have already been implemented because it's unlogical for a ship with all its electronic devices not to show it considering it could pretty much affect the outcome of a fight. So, the ship now is actually the one being nerfed for the favor of neuts. A nerf that is beyond logic in my opinion.
As for the UI problem, you raise a good point, to which is have to ask you, what's the goto solution in this case for ECM cycles since they're already implemented and could very well be staggered and multiple? I can suggest a solution, and that is, the ship takes some time to calculate the average interval between each effect and just shows you that information if it's above a certain time limit (because like you said, if the interval is too short then the information is useless).
Roenok Baalnorn
Baalnorn Heavy Industries
#7 - 2016-06-21 20:51:11 UTC
Shark Dubois wrote:
Cade Windstalker wrote:
OP while you have a point that there's some loss of consistency here I would argue that the ECM feature is more about removing frustration from an already frustrating mechanic than anything else, and this doesn't really nerf ECM in any way, it just makes it more obvious when you can lock things again without spamming the server with "can I lock this thing yet!?!?" requests.

The "anything else" for Neuts specifically being the ability to time your cap boosts or module activations to avoid the effects of the neut, which would be a pretty significant nerf to them.

As things stand a good player is going to stagger their neuts, and giving away this stagger pattern would be a hit to good players who don't just mash their f-row when running neuts and nos. It would also create a UI problem, with the neut cycle either not providing much in the way of usable information or taking up massive amounts of screen real-estate as every single neut that Carrier has on it fills the screen.

Also, elitatwo, that's hyperbole and not really a productive contribution.


First, thanks for your productive comment.
Second, this feature should have already been implemented because it's unlogical for a ship with all its electronic devices not to show it considering it could pretty much affect the outcome of a fight. So, the ship now is actually the one being nerfed for the favor of neuts. A nerf that is beyond logic in my opinion.
As for the UI problem, you raise a good point, to which is have to ask you, what's the goto solution in this case for ECM cycles since they're already implemented and could very well be staggered and multiple? I can suggest a solution, and that is, the ship takes some time to calculate the average interval between each effect and just shows you that information if it's above a certain time limit (because like you said, if the interval is too short then the information is useless).


Its not illogical. The ecm icon only tells you if someone is trying to use ecm on you(both failed and successful), if there is a successful attempt how long before that attempt expires.

Neuts and Nos have already been greatly nerfed over the years. Theyve had falloff introduced and range cut. They can also be countered a variety of ways. knowing the neut cycle is going to do you little good if you are not defended against such an attack anyway. Simply put if you know how to counter neuts than you dont need the icon timer and if you dont know how to counter nuets the icon timer isnt going to be useful to you anyway.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#8 - 2016-07-08 12:26:24 UTC
Shark Dubois wrote:
what are you talking about? if someone is applying an effect on your ship, your ship should be able to calculate the average interval between when each effect takes place. it's not rocket science. it's actually abnormal that your ship doesn't show you this vital information.


Good do it yourself then

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Martin Scorsazie
Liber8
Common-Denominator
#9 - 2016-07-09 17:07:32 UTC
You can see ECM cycles because they have a percentage change of working or not whenever the cycle resets, so you could actually time some module activations and target locks with these timers, But Neuts and Scrams and Pretty much every other EWAR is 100% effective until its turned off, so knowing when the cycle ends doesn't really give you any info because as soon as the little blip goes away the module is now not affecting your ship

my 2 cents
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#10 - 2016-07-09 18:24:54 UTC
Shark Dubois wrote:
As for the UI problem, you raise a good point, to which is have to ask you, what's the goto solution in this case for ECM cycles since they're already implemented and could very well be staggered and multiple?

Currently... as soon as one ECM jam lands a timer for it will start. If another ECM jam lands while the first jam is cycling then the timer will reset and start at the beginning (as the jamming effect will not leave until the second jam cycle is over).

Neuts don't work this way. They apply their effect once per cycle (there is no lingering effect beyond the lower amount of capacitor pwoer), wait, then apply again.
If another Neut hits you while the first one is cycling... should that reset the cycle timer the same way it does for ECM? If so, you lose track of the first Neut.

Now if you want separate timers for each neut... that is going to be an issue as a large ship can come under heavy neuting pressure from 5, 6 or even 10+ neuts. Should there be a timer for each Neut?


Honestly... I think this is one of those cases where less information is better. Let players make guesstimations and risk assessments on their own.

How did you Veterans start?