These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

How do you get by?

Author
Ivon
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2016-06-20 15:40:56 UTC
I've noticed that a lot of the modules that are usable by me are not competitively traded in many areas. It makes sense that more advanced players are not going to bother with low level items out of concern for profit. From a development point of view, it also makes sense that they want players to focus on the products that are tied into more systems, like invention et al.

However, that leaves me in a bit of a lurch. I recently visited Rens, which apparently contains the seventh most active station and is the fourth most active system in the game, and found that entire product lines weren't even present. That doesn't exactly inspire hope for the other thousands of systems. The ones that were serviced were not under much supply pressure.

How do you all deal with this? Just train for T2 asap? DIY it, stockpile in Jita and export reserves for your own use? Band together with dozens of other traders to populate market inventories? Pray for bad invention rolls to give you meta blueprint copies?

I figure there must be some mechanic that is exerting a lot of entropy on peripheral markets, or players would have exploited these opportunities a long time ago. Is there anything planned for citadels which may address this?

Was it always this way, or is it just a byproduct of an aging playerbase?
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#2 - 2016-06-20 16:07:22 UTC
Try hauling to there from either of the two biggest hubs (jita/amarr) yourself.

Biiiiiiiig looooooooooooooooong booring warps in those big slow alighning, slow warping piniatas.

Ovv Topik
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2016-06-20 16:49:11 UTC
I'm guessing you've come to EvE from ED or similar where station to station trading is the central mechanic.

EvE is is very different. If you're looking to trade, station margin trading is the direction to go.

And the real profit comes from knowledge. Learn to read in game news, current trends in PVP meta, and upcoming re-balances to see where the next profit lies.

It's a very mature, established world. You're not going to change it so learn how to fit into it.

"Nicknack, I'm in a shoe in space, on my computer, in my house, with a cup of coffee, in't that something." - Fly Safe PopPaddi. o7

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#4 - 2016-06-20 16:51:06 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Bear in mind that Rens (and Hek) are the smallest trade hubs in the game and, as a result, tends to lack certain products.

Jita and Amarr are the largest. So if you are looking for something... you will probably find it there.


If you can't find what you are looking for in Jita or Amarr then one of the follow things may be the root of your problem:
- your search parameters are off (see: you will have to fiddle with the market window and its settings a bit)
- you are looking up the wrong name/term. Try different variations of names and/or check the spelling. If you know for sure that an item exists... start exploring the item directory.
- you are looking for an item that is rare or does not exist
- the module is crap and and/or the basic version is fairly useless


Out of curiosity... what module(s) are you looking for?



edit: also... yes, there are places in EVE where the market is bare-bones or nearly non-existent. Don't see this as a flaw. It is a feature.
What this means is that you can haul out stuff (or make it) and sell it on the market in a near geographical monopoly. Just be sure there is demand for the products you want to sell.
Ivon
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2016-06-20 17:17:50 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Bear in mind that Rens (and Hek) are the smallest trade hubs in the game and, as a result, tends to lack certain products.

Jita and Amarr are the largest. So if you are looking for something... you will probably find it there.


Well, I was looking at eve-marketdata's ranking



Quote:
Out of curiosity... what module(s) are you looking for?


Just simple things like meta blasters between T1 and T2. Other types of modules exclusive to new players or anyone else who knows how much change is in their pocket by the way it clinks.



Quote:
edit: also... yes, there are places in EVE where the market is bare-bones or nearly non-existent. Don't see this as a flaw. It is a feature.
What this means is that you can haul out stuff (or make it) and sell it on the market in a near geographical monopoly. Just be sure there is demand for the products you want to sell.


That worries me, because it seems like supply and demand should be linked. It must be pretty easy to get supply from Jita, so I'll probably just go with the flow. If there's no supply, it's probably because there's negligible demand or there are additional costs in time or opportunity in most places. If Rens can't provide low level players with competitively priced goods with ten thousand orders, then there's probably no good markets for new players anywhere outside of the big three.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#6 - 2016-06-20 17:47:14 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Ivon wrote:
Well, I was looking at eve-marketdata's ranking

Try this: https://eve-central.com/

Type in an item name and you will generally find what you are looking for (including the system where it is sold).

Ivon wrote:
ShahFluffers wrote:
Out of curiosity... what module(s) are you looking for?


Just simple things like meta blasters between T1 and T2. Other types of modules exclusive to new players or anyone else who knows how much change is in their pocket by the way it clinks.

The "new player exclusive" modules would be called "Civilian (insert module type here)"

Civilian mods are, frankly, more than useless. To use them, you need level 1 in the skill that they tie into (ex. Civilian Gatling Gun requires "Small Projectile Weapons Level 1").

However, once you have level 1 in any of those necessary skills, you can already use pretty much ANY Tech 1 modules that falls under that skill's purview... which is VASTLY better in pretty much all ways.


The meta weapons... those come only from NPCs (see: they can't be manufactured) and are dropped only by certain NPCs... which is region specific.
You probably won't find that many meta hybrid weapons in Minmatar space.
But you SHOULD be able to find a lot of meta projectile weapons.

Ivon wrote:
ShahFluffers wrote:
edit: also... yes, there are places in EVE where the market is bare-bones or nearly non-existent. Don't see this as a flaw. It is a feature.
What this means is that you can haul out stuff (or make it) and sell it on the market in a near geographical monopoly. Just be sure there is demand for the products you want to sell.


That worries me, because it seems like supply and demand should be linked. It must be pretty easy to get supply from Jita, so I'll probably just go with the flow. If there's no supply, it's probably because there's negligible demand or there are additional costs in time or opportunity in most places. If Rens can't provide low level players with competitively priced goods with ten thousand orders, then there's probably no good markets for new players anywhere outside of the big three.

The old adage of business applies here: "Location, location, location."

Players are VERY lazy and they may not want to make the trip from their staging point all the way over to any of the trade hubs.
This is doubly so if the difference in price between where they are located and where the hubs are is 10 or 15%.

At the same time, if you put up sell orders in an out-of-the-way place where there are few people... or you put up sell orders for things that no one wants... there will be little demand.


So it may not be that there is no "demand" per se... but rather that demand is higher in certain areas of space and not others. Or that supply is high in certain areas of space so people flock to it and base themselves closer to that supply... reinforcing demand and encouraging further increases in supply... but only in those areas of space.



tldr (for everything): Markets in EVE are quite "regional" and neither supply nor demand are the sole factors in why certain places are stocked up with products while others are not.
You have to account for NPC types that inhabit a region, type of activities for players to do in an area, whether there are active wars (or ganking) in the surrounding systems, etc.
Roenok Baalnorn
Baalnorn Heavy Industries
#7 - 2016-06-20 19:18:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Roenok Baalnorn
Most people buy and fit ships out of either jita or amarr. its faster, easier and especially in the case of null most freight services leave out of one those hubs. So they do the largest volume of trading. Even amarr doesnt have what i would consider some common items( and i recently made a 25% profit margin by filling that void).

It has also become riskier to haul stuff between hubs than it has been in the past with all the ganking and multi wardeccing going on. Its more risky for a freighter to haul several billion isk worth of stuff from jita to another hub for a profit. So people stopped moving products they dont need too.


EDIT:also to note since jita typically is the cheapest when you are stocking up on several fitted ships you can save hundreds of millions. One of my pvp fits for example i can buy for 61 mil isk in jita. In Rens the same fit would cost me 76 mil isk. Since i buy 4 at a time i basically get every 5th one free in jita when comparing Rens to Jita pricing.
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#8 - 2016-06-20 19:44:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Iria Ahrens
Ovv Topik wrote:
I'm guessing you've come to EvE from ED or similar where station to station trading is the central mechanic.

EvE is is very different. If you're looking to trade, station margin trading is the direction to go.


Yea, that's why the real Eve Moguls like Rita Jita exclusively station trade. Oh wait, no he doesn't.

A whole lot of his stuff is moved inter-regionally via contracts.

OP, it all comes down to supply and demand. If there is no supply but demand then players will supply themselves or use an alternate. In Stain the entire market was blank from zero activity, because everyone was hauling their supplies to corp hangers from Jita runs. It took me months to get the market active enough so people will shop local.

You could try seeding that market and see if it draws any attention. Try checking out the market data on Jita to see if there is even a demand. Those modules you can use might be primarily sold for scrap.

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.

Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2016-06-20 21:15:17 UTC
Basically I buy all my stuff in Jita, Dodixie or Amarr, depending on fleet staging and location of nearest reship. Packaged frigs and dessies do not occupy much space, so quite easy to haul upfront. Though I keep my sec status in check with tags and live in highsec. I'm not so much in pure trading, but have a profitable production line running and a small PI farm.

I'm my own NPC alt.

Galaxy Pig
New Order Logistics
CODE.
#10 - 2016-06-20 21:18:59 UTC
I don't know much about it, but the Dodixie market just ain't like it used to be.

Highsec is owned by players now. Systems 0.5-1.0 are New Order Territory. All miners and other residents of Highsec must obey The Code. Mining without a permit is dangerous and harmful to the EVE community. See www.MinerBumping.com

Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#11 - 2016-06-20 21:24:28 UTC
Quote:
... which is VASTLY better in pretty much all ways.





...with one notable exception: the Civilian Warp Disruptor. It's USP? It can't actually put out a point. That makes it pretty superior in my mind, playing psychological games with your prey:


Opponent: "HALP I'M POINTED, I CAN'T FLEE"

You (to yourself): "O RLY?"



Priceless.

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log

Sitting Bull Lakota
Poppins and Company
#12 - 2016-06-21 01:19:55 UTC
Ivon wrote:
I've noticed that a lot of the modules that are usable by me are not competitively traded in many areas.

How do you all deal with this? Just train for T2 asap? DIY it, stockpile in Jita and export reserves for your own use? Band together with dozens of other traders to populate market inventories? Pray for bad invention rolls to give you meta blueprint copies?

I'm not sure about invention and t2 can take a bunch of sp, but your idea for populating market inventories isn't a bad one.
I'd drop the banding together part, though. Teamwork is great in most of EvE, but when it comes to price gouging your way to billions? I'd go solo.
Place buy orders on mission running hubs. Use the hauling channel to move your products around when they reach sufficient bulk. I'm not sure where you should be selling your products, but you'll want to go one of two directions. Either you keep lots of sell orders out ridiculous prices in systems with poor markets and a lot of action, or make sure you can make a profit bringing your goods to market in one of the hubs.
You might look into how to get more efficient reprocessing and just sell the minerals at grand profits.

Maybe I misinterpretted what you meant by getting by, but the iskbear in me says to profiteer for profiteerring's sake. Bear
Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
#13 - 2016-06-21 02:50:18 UTC
Ivon wrote:
How do you all deal with this? Just train for T2 asap?


Pretty much this, especially for tanking modules. Back before I could T2 All The Things, I used to have to take a stash of meta tank mods with me on deployments.

Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze

This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura

DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2016-06-21 05:47:28 UTC
As someone else pointed out, Industrial and Freighter ships are constantly being ganked now so the goods for sale in regional markets is now becoming more area specific.

Don't know why everyone is hating on Rens.

My 'Base Of Operations' is in Rens and I rarely have to travel anywhere else to purchase items. Now I don't know if I'm paying a bit more and more importantly I don't care, I don't need to travel which is fine with me. I will say every once in a while a specific item isn't available so I'll then make a special trip to Jita just for that item.

So the only time I purchase items from any other market is when I'm in that area and need to replenish munitions. Other than that, I always buy from Rens and use Jita as a backup.



DMC


Taishoku Mayaki
Feeling Cute Today
#15 - 2016-06-21 08:33:43 UTC
Probably not much help, since I've only been playing for about 3 days. But I have found this issue as well, everything in Caldari space worth buying is in Jita. But I found a lot of isk in going into Jita and buying several items that I am after then returning to my current hub and reselling them for Jita price +30% and they always sell.

Managed to make 5 mill off a faction ship that bought in Jita for the 11mill I made running the Career Missions + Loot then flying it the 4 jumps to the State War Academy Career Agents. Sold within 8 hours, so good profits to be made in exporting from Jita.

Alternatively however I try to manufacture the basic from blueprints as oppose to buying by reprocessing items I get under a certain value. Blue Print Copies are pretty cheap and you get a good amount of runs out of them for modules. Though really need to boost my skills in those areas.

"Right-O, lets get undocked and see what falls off the ship"

Memphis Baas
#16 - 2016-06-21 17:44:28 UTC
The market is almost fully player-run.

T1 and T2 items are produced by players, the in-between meta items and the officer and faction modules are looted.

As a result, you'll see a lot of T1 and T2, and perhaps less meta named items and officer stuff, because looting and transporting loot is a pain. So the mission runners will bother to take the expensive officer and faction loot to market, but won't bother with the lesser meta items because it's just bulk volume that's a pain to transport for little profit.

In addition, the recent increase in NPC station taxes means that it's even less worth it to try to eke out a meager profit from the little things. The taxes are concentrating everything into Jita, where at least there's volume, and the other trade hubs are probably going to have a lot less variety and may even stop functioning as trade hubs.

Working as intended by CCP, I think.
Ka Plaa
Doomheim
#17 - 2016-06-22 07:04:27 UTC
"Jita's a hole, Rens has a soul."


Tuesdays Takk
Serpent Sun
#18 - 2016-06-22 20:49:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Tuesdays Takk
Ka Plaa wrote:
"Jita's a hole, Rens has a soul."



Can you elaborate a tad? I'm curious when is too early to try and make my way out to those trade hubs.

If you win the rat race, you're still a rat.

Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2016-06-22 21:01:11 UTC
Memphis Baas wrote:

Working as intended by CCP, I think.

Rather working as expected and predicted ... but CCP didn't want to hear it.

I'm my own NPC alt.