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Dev Blog: Bidding Farewell to the In-game Browser

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CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#101 - 2016-06-20 19:21:12 UTC
Blacksmoke16 wrote:
@CCP FoxFour

How would one use the 'open specific contract' or 'Opening the market details for a specific item type' endpoint?


Send a post request to: https://crest-tq.eveonline.com/characters/[character_id]/ui/openwindow/marketdetails/
Body of it should look like:
{
    "type":     {
      "href": "https://crest-tq.eveonline.com/inventory/types/0/",
      "id": 586
    }
}

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
Sheeana Harb
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#102 - 2016-06-20 19:23:02 UTC
I will be very frank here:

The (upcoming) removal of the IGB will make my ingame experience considerably less enjoyable. I use it quite often while in nullsec. Neither of the alternatives suggested in the devblog are good enough.

I'm very unhappy that the IGB is going away.
Huang Mo
Tianxia Inc
#103 - 2016-06-20 19:23:45 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Huang Mo wrote:
How about you keep IGB until CREST can provide the same features ?

One thing is that ALT-TABBING in and out of the game hurts immersion, but it's quite another thing to remove features that people rely on - like the Contracts interface

Some handwaving that it will be dealt with "in the future" is not enough. We know how that plays out: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5127183#post5127183 two years ago and nothing happened



Funny you should say that:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=485359&find=unread


That's how to do it imo. As a member of the CSM, can you push for a similar focus group regarding the removal of the IGB ?
CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#104 - 2016-06-20 19:26:03 UTC
Sheeana Harb wrote:
I will be very frank here:

The (upcoming) removal of the IGB will make my ingame experience considerably less enjoyable. I use it quite often while in nullsec. Neither of the alternatives suggested in the devblog are good enough.

I'm very unhappy that the IGB is going away.


This food sucks.

VS

Any chance I could get this food without the nuts? I am actually allergic to them. :)

Once of those statements is useful the other is not. Care to take a guess which is yours?

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
Blacksmoke16
Imperial Academy
#105 - 2016-06-20 19:26:36 UTC
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Blacksmoke16 wrote:
@CCP FoxFour

How would one use the 'open specific contract' or 'Opening the market details for a specific item type' endpoint?


Send a post request to: https://crest-tq.eveonline.com/characters/[character_id]/ui/openwindow/marketdetails/
Body of it should look like:
{
    "type":     {
      "href": "https://crest-tq.eveonline.com/inventory/types/0/",
      "id": 586
    }
}



Thanks!
Caldranna
Let's annoy'em
#106 - 2016-06-20 19:26:46 UTC
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Caldranna wrote:
CCP FoxFour wrote:


Is there a reason you're unwilling to use an Overlay?


CCP, you wrote that "To be clear CCP does not officially endorse or support overlays and therefor does not guarantee that they work or don't cause unexpected problems with the EVE Online client." How are we supposed to use something that you do not really support?
Is it really that hard to keep the In Game Browser with its basic functionality that has been used for many years?


Leaving it as it is would be a risk and we want to ensure our users are as safe as possible.


Could you please elaborate on those risks?
Huang Mo
Tianxia Inc
#107 - 2016-06-20 19:33:55 UTC
Have you considered going in the opposite direction and create a fully integrated browser ? With multiple windows running state of the art javascript providing integration through CREST ?

If integrated into menus, people could load web based plugins for sites like EVE Central, RF Freight, Evepraisal, DScan, etc. It would be the extension mechanism people have been asking for, yet it would be tightly controlled through what was doable through CREST

It would be awesome ! Think about it
Kaltag the Chinook
Kaltag and Co.
#108 - 2016-06-20 19:35:20 UTC
Oliver Ward
Doomheim
#109 - 2016-06-20 19:35:24 UTC
Caldranna wrote:

Could you please elaborate on those risks?

Software dev for a mid-sized company, here (not related to CCP in the slightest, though). My guess is... with the IGB being an old version of Chrome it was open to a lot of security flaws, and trying to update and maintain it was costing more time than it was worth. As CREST implementations become more robust, they can take over for the IGB.

One of the biggest issues with something like an integrated browser is that a user might decide to file suit if they receive malware through it due to unpatched security holes, causing them to lose money, identity, etc. Even if the suit gets tossed out, it's time and money down the drain for the defendant.

In my own experience, there are a lot of features that our clients would love to have available that are simply too much effort to properly maintain. The worst come from users who don't have a clue about what it's like to develop software, make a "small" request, then get upset when it doesn't get implemented due to it being a huge problem to plan out, create, test, iterate, push, and maintain.

With something as public-facing as a browser, you have to be very security-conscious with it, as new exploits are popping up on a daily basis. Hell, they're popping up on an hourly and minute-by-minute basis. Maintaining the IGB properly would probably require a dedicated team working full-time.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#110 - 2016-06-20 19:36:33 UTC
Take #2:

Fiddled a bit around:

The Steam Overlay blocks you from playing the game when you access it. Which is absolutely unacceptable.
XFire apparently is a wild hit and miss whether it works.
Evolve apparently does not really work with EVE. It recognized EVE in the library, tells me I can use the overlay, but nothing happens when I press the overlay key combo even after multiple client/launcher restarts. Overlay is not listed in the EVE Online entry in the gamesdb.xml file and even after manually adding the entry to the file, pressing the overlay hotkey does not show it.
Overwolf so far seems the only overlay that is barely usable, although it has no bookmarks which is quite important to me because I regularly visit certain sites and do not really want to type each url every single time I need to use that page.

And overall, I need to do more clicks and more keyboard strokes to access the overlays in the first place in all instances.

Any other suggestions? Or does someone care to try to explain how to get evolve or overwolf working properly (properly == retaining the functionality of the IGB)?

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Unelias
The Great Balls of Fire
#111 - 2016-06-20 19:41:37 UTC
NO!NONONONONO!
CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#112 - 2016-06-20 19:49:10 UTC
Hey everyone,

Thanks for the great conversation so far. Going to head home and watch the new GoT episode. I will be back later. :)

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
Brain Gehirn
Macabre Votum
Northern Coalition.
#113 - 2016-06-20 20:03:32 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Take #2:

Fiddled a bit around:

The Steam Overlay blocks you from playing the game when you access it. Which is absolutely unacceptable.
XFire apparently is a wild hit and miss whether it works.
Evolve apparently does not really work with EVE. It recognized EVE in the library, tells me I can use the overlay, but nothing happens when I press the overlay key combo even after multiple client/launcher restarts. Overlay is not listed in the EVE Online entry in the gamesdb.xml file and even after manually adding the entry to the file, pressing the overlay hotkey does not show it.
Overwolf so far seems the only overlay that is barely usable, although it has no bookmarks which is quite important to me because I regularly visit certain sites and do not really want to type each url every single time I need to use that page.

And overall, I need to do more clicks and more keyboard strokes to access the overlays in the first place in all instances.

Any other suggestions? Or does someone care to try to explain how to get evolve or overwolf working properly (properly == retaining the functionality of the IGB)?



My suggestion:
Get over it and use your normal browser.
IGB was a thing to help not a thing for you to stop living if it goes away.


As a developer this is just great news. No more outdated UI's and no more headaches with outdated libraries.
Sheeana Harb
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#114 - 2016-06-20 20:08:23 UTC
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Sheeana Harb wrote:
I will be very frank here:

The (upcoming) removal of the IGB will make my ingame experience considerably less enjoyable. I use it quite often while in nullsec. Neither of the alternatives suggested in the devblog are good enough.

I'm very unhappy that the IGB is going away.


This food sucks.

VS

Any chance I could get this food without the nuts? I am actually allergic to them. :)

Once of those statements is useful the other is not. Care to take a guess which is yours?


No reason to be this passive-aggesive, my feedback was frank not out of malice, but to save you time reading through it while getting my point across.

I use (amongst other things) IGB to check KOS status of neutral pilots in nullsec, to view items on the market and their trends (via 3rd party, can't name it now, I'm away from home) and to view my alliance's forums.
The biggest advantage of the IGB is that it stays withing the game client, so I can use the IGB while being able to play EVE and not needing to tab out or obscure the game's interface in other ways.
Milla Goodpussy
Garoun Investment Bank
#115 - 2016-06-20 20:19:26 UTC
Angry Arnst wrote:
I Don't know who calling shots at ole CCP but Your not making game better. You have taken a lot of core basics of game and throw out window. Example skill injectors wtf can I get my cpl years of money back so can buy into what want? it was a real time strategy I mean I don't like long trains either but people do them now in 2 days can be cap pilot fooking ridiculous. I also liked old Camera view, why did not make option to use like did new map etc. is beyond me. What you deem as upgrades are not seen bye all players it be nice have options. I for one have a lot skills trained long time in and now half are obsolete cause you think it betters game. So how do we get back money time spent for nothing now??? next towers gonna be gone I would hope you keep them as cheaper option or there goes a lot time spent on skills and researching fuel block bpo's and such also down the drain. Put a Damper on it if want change something every week make another game keep original eve way was minus the glitches and extorted game mechanics. now browser gone too. I predict Eve be gone under 4 years now way ruin it keep up Good work Killing game and loosing older players cause of it




lol i agree it seems like seagull still is allowing the devs to pick and choose what they want to work on.
we still have cloaky camping
we still have a broken bounty system
we still have a broken war dec system
and we still have the stargate debacle plus other issues with citadel structures soon to come.. (just wait for winter lolz)

with all that said it was obvious they went after and killed the clawless puppy.. the IGB.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#116 - 2016-06-20 20:36:27 UTC
Brain Gehirn wrote:
My suggestion:
Get over it and use your normal browser.
IGB was a thing to help not a thing for you to stop living if it goes away.

I suggest you take your nick name a bit more serious and use the second part of it more. Using an OOGB is not exactly a great option because it requires me to either use window mode, which is a lot more performance hungry than full screen, or requires me to alt-tab out of the game constantly to check thing, which means I cannot check things ingame and run the risk of not getting info necessary to survive in Null (like neutrals entering my system). Furthermore, I use market sites for EVE every day and sometimes hundreds of times to check prices and determine where to buy things. Doing this with alt-tabbing is excruciating and with window mode not really convenient either because my OOGB is not placed like the IGB and moving these windows around just to compensate for laziness sounds like a great option.

Using the IGB is in fact a thing that keeps me living in EVE, as ironic as it may sound. Roll

I also do not see at all how the IGB is a burden for any developer. As a developer, you do not need to develop your app for the IGB, you can already develop standalone apps with CREST that do not rely on the IGB. If you develop for the IGB regardless, it's entirely your fault. Now go back to Saranen and do something useful.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Axhind
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
#117 - 2016-06-20 20:53:36 UTC
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Dominous Nolen wrote:
RIP IGB.. Honestly this has been expected for a long time, sad to see it happening though because it is useful in alot of ways (especially in wormhole space for mapping)



There is a new CREST resource for tracking a characters location which means that can be done from outside the client and no need for the IGB, :D


Except that it doesn't actually work most of the time while IGB tracking does. If CREST would actually work reliably instead of on paper it would be less bad that IGB is going away.

But even then it's going to be bad unless there is a way to link to in game fittings and similar that is very convenient with IGB right now.
Airi Cho
Dark-Rising
Wrecking Machine.
#118 - 2016-06-20 20:53:44 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Brain Gehirn wrote:
My suggestion:
Get over it and use your normal browser.
IGB was a thing to help not a thing for you to stop living if it goes away.

I suggest you take your nick name a bit more serious and use the second part of it more. Using an OOGB is not exactly a great option because it requires me to either use window mode, which is a lot more performance hungry than full screen, or requires me to alt-tab out of the game constantly to check thing, which means I cannot check things ingame and run the risk of not getting info necessary to survive in Null (like neutrals entering my system). Furthermore, I use market sites for EVE every day and sometimes hundreds of times to check prices and determine where to buy things. Doing this with alt-tabbing is excruciating and with window mode not really convenient either because my OOGB is not placed like the IGB and moving these windows around just to compensate for laziness sounds like a great option.

Using the IGB is in fact a thing that keeps me living in EVE, as ironic as it may sound. Roll

I also do not see at all how the IGB is a burden for any developer. As a developer, you do not need to develop your app for the IGB, you can already develop standalone apps with CREST that do not rely on the IGB. If you develop for the IGB regardless, it's entirely your fault. Now go back to Saranen and do something useful.


maybe it was bad that all that information was available ingame in first place.
Blacksmoke16
Imperial Academy
#119 - 2016-06-20 20:58:07 UTC
@CCP FoxFour

2 things:

href: 'https://crest-tq.eveonline.com/inventory/types/0/' - should the 0 be the typeID you want, or should it actually be 0?

Also my post request keeps returning this error when using the body format in your post. Is there a specific header i need to include?

POST https://crest-tq.eveonline.com/characters/2047918291/ui/openwindow/marketdetails/ 415 (UNSUPPORTED MEDIA TYPE)
Feodor Mihailovici
Mare Anguis
#120 - 2016-06-20 21:00:21 UTC
I haven't had the patience to search through the forum for this particular issue, so I am writing it below:

If you remove IGB you are practically kicking in the nuts all the serious Incursion-running communities (see WTM's WL Manager site which is being used by hundreds of people daily). That thing has a login token and notification system possible only through the IGB.

Another thing important to me and probably to other traders, my "view market details" is actually "open IGB" , bc my homepage is set to eve-central.com and I am able to check the real price of any item (while having a separate tab opened with the incursion waitlist).

You say you want to make our experience better ... then don't remove an old but valuable tool from the game. I am not even getting into breaking the immersion by having to use overlays or alt-tab, this is also an issue, but smaller than the above.