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Mach or Varg
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Jason McCoy
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-01-15 04:43:45 UTC
If you had the choice to jump into either ship for the first time. Which would it be?

Either one will be used for high sec lvl 4 mission running.

Which one would you recommend to get into.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#2 - 2012-01-15 04:45:44 UTC
Mach for high sec missions, I think. You don't have to worry about ammo consumption as much...

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Jason McCoy
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-01-15 04:47:09 UTC
welp the varg will be shooting 4 guns compared to the machs 7, so mach will eat ammo for breakfast.
stoicfaux
#4 - 2012-01-15 04:53:20 UTC
Jason McCoy wrote:
If you had the choice to jump into either ship for the first time. Which would it be?

Either one will be used for high sec lvl 4 mission running.

Which one would you recommend to get into.


The Varg is cheaper and has a much better tank, but is more skill intensive due to requiring Min BS V and AWU V.

An MWD Mach is expensive and requires that you not screw up (i.e. you probably will need have some experience with level 4s and triggers and be good at cap management.) An AB Mach probably isn't worth the money because ABs are slooooooow. The Mach is quick to skill into compared to the Varg due to not requiring BS V and AWU V.

OTOH, a Mach handles like a cruiser, so you'll align much, much, much faster than the Vargur, which reduces travel time noticeably.

Long story short, you can't go wrong with either one. If you're just starting out, then use the Vargur or the AB Mach. Once you get some experience, switch to the MWD Mach if you get tired of the Vargur.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Jason McCoy
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-01-15 04:59:30 UTC
im def not starting out in lvl 4 missioning.

I also have all the supports for both ships. Skills are min bs 5 and gallente bs 4

awu 5 blah blah blah blah

in other words I will be able to fit them both quite competitively large t2 guns and even some deadspace mods here and there.

im comming off a maelstrom, so im just wondering where should I dump the isk into. So far im more inclined towards the mach and some corp buddies have said to get the mach.
Vachir Khan
Rugged Ruff and Ready
#6 - 2012-01-15 05:14:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Vachir Khan
The mach does way more dps than the vargur and it's faster as well, the Vargur tanks better (especially against em/thermal) and has lower ammo cost. Thing is that under normal circumstances you don't NEED the extra tank and he extra speed of the Mach also helps to apply its superior DPS faster so it completes missions much faster.

The tractor bonus on Marauders is effectively nullified due to the uberness of the Noctis, the only real boons are increased tank and ammo usage so If you mission in Amarr space I'd get a Vargur, outside that I'd get a Mach.
Goose99
#7 - 2012-01-15 05:19:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Goose99
stoicfaux wrote:
Jason McCoy wrote:
If you had the choice to jump into either ship for the first time. Which would it be?

Either one will be used for high sec lvl 4 mission running.

Which one would you recommend to get into.


The Varg is cheaper and has a much better tank, but is more skill intensive due to requiring Min BS V and AWU V.

An MWD Mach is expensive and requires that you not screw up (i.e. you probably will need have some experience with level 4s and triggers and be good at cap management.) An AB Mach probably isn't worth the money because ABs are slooooooow. The Mach is quick to skill into compared to the Varg due to not requiring BS V and AWU V.

OTOH, a Mach handles like a cruiser, so you'll align much, much, much faster than the Vargur, which reduces travel time noticeably.

Long story short, you can't go wrong with either one. If you're just starting out, then use the Vargur or the AB Mach. Once you get some experience, switch to the MWD Mach if you get tired of the Vargur.



Jason McCoy wrote:
im def not starting out in lvl 4 missioning.

I also have all the supports for both ships. Skills are min bs 5 and gallente bs 4

awu 5 blah blah blah blah

in other words I will be able to fit them both quite competitively large t2 guns and even some deadspace mods here and there.

im comming off a maelstrom, so im just wondering where should I dump the isk into. So far im more inclined towards the mach and some corp buddies have said to get the mach.


Fun fact:

How much slower is a 600m/s AB Mach compared to your 700m/s MWD Mael? Not much, except the Mach has better cap, smaller sig, and can speed tank dmg.Roll

Mach does more dps and blitz faster than Varg. Varg can salvage. That's the gist of it.

Specific advantages:

Mach:
-Faster
-More agile, align and turn quicker.
-1 more slot
-More hp
-More cap
-1 more rig slot
-Higher sensor strength, less likely to be jammed by rat
-Larger dronebay, more bandwidth
-Smaller sig
-Faster target lock
-Far more grid (17950 base vs Vargur's 7900, lol)

Vargur:
-Can salvage
-More locks (10 instead of 7)
Jason McCoy
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-01-15 05:22:23 UTC
Goose why the rolleyes, LOL I dont know what you are jabbing about in your "fun fact" I never said I MWD my mael.

Good points all. Heading to jita in the freighter to pick a mach up.
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#9 - 2012-01-15 06:23:59 UTC
Vargur gets uber falloff. If anything gets closer than 40km, it spawned there. The key is to not overtank your Vargur like everyone inevitably does. Sure you might be OK in the bonus room of Enemies Abound but you really don't usually need that kind of tank.

Second, yes you only get two rig slots. You T2 them with damage rigs for extra gank.

I would not recommend the Vargur for Guristas missions due to the crap sensor strength of marauders in general. I mean...seriously CCP...even with an ECCM you hardly do any DPS.

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
ACE McFACE
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2012-01-15 07:13:44 UTC
Goose99 wrote:
stoicfaux wrote:
Jason McCoy wrote:
If you had the choice to jump into either ship for the first time. Which would it be?

Either one will be used for high sec lvl 4 mission running.

Which one would you recommend to get into.


The Varg is cheaper and has a much better tank, but is more skill intensive due to requiring Min BS V and AWU V.

An MWD Mach is expensive and requires that you not screw up (i.e. you probably will need have some experience with level 4s and triggers and be good at cap management.) An AB Mach probably isn't worth the money because ABs are slooooooow. The Mach is quick to skill into compared to the Varg due to not requiring BS V and AWU V.

OTOH, a Mach handles like a cruiser, so you'll align much, much, much faster than the Vargur, which reduces travel time noticeably.

Long story short, you can't go wrong with either one. If you're just starting out, then use the Vargur or the AB Mach. Once you get some experience, switch to the MWD Mach if you get tired of the Vargur.



Jason McCoy wrote:
im def not starting out in lvl 4 missioning.

I also have all the supports for both ships. Skills are min bs 5 and gallente bs 4

awu 5 blah blah blah blah

in other words I will be able to fit them both quite competitively large t2 guns and even some deadspace mods here and there.

im comming off a maelstrom, so im just wondering where should I dump the isk into. So far im more inclined towards the mach and some corp buddies have said to get the mach.


Fun fact:

How much slower is a 600m/s AB Mach compared to your 700m/s MWD Mael? Not much, except the Mach has better cap, smaller sig, and can speed tank dmg.Roll

Mach does more dps and blitz faster than Varg. Varg can salvage. That's the gist of it.

Specific advantages:

Mach:
-Faster
-More agile, align and turn quicker.
-1 more slot
-More hp
-More cap
-1 more rig slot
-Higher sensor strength, less likely to be jammed by rat
-Larger dronebay, more bandwidth
-Smaller sig
-Faster target lock
-Far more grid (17950 base vs Vargur's 7900, lol)

Vargur:
-Can salvage
-More locks (10 instead of 7)
-Less ammo consumption

Added one pro to the Vargur and it has 7900 PG for the simple reason that it doesn't need more because of its 4 100% bonus guns

Now, more than ever, we need a dislike button.
Headerman
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2012-01-15 07:22:51 UTC
Got Marauders 5? No? Mach then.

That said i just love the Varg's falloff :)

Australian Fanfest Event https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=90062
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#12 - 2012-01-15 09:47:20 UTC
Jason McCoy wrote:
If you had the choice to jump into either ship for the first time. Which would it be?

Either one will be used for high sec lvl 4 mission running.

Which one would you recommend to get into.


Mach, unless you do a lot of mssions with empire faction rats. It's just way more fun to fly. And sexier.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
King Rothgar
Deadly Solutions
#13 - 2012-01-15 10:06:19 UTC
As said, mach for blitzing, vargur if you want to loot the stuff (not necessarily salvage). Alternatively, if you're running missions/sites that a mach can't survive solo, a vargur gets very appealing (lvl5's, null sec combat sites). DPS wise the mach does slightly more but it isn't a huge difference. It's only about 100 with 3x gyro's and 2x 5% hardwirings. Factor in the vargur's superior tracking along with the fact that both will always be fighting in falloff and I think it's safe to say they end up with about the same dps on target.

[u]Fireworks and snowballs are great, but what I really want is a corpse launcher.[/u]
Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Horse Feathers
CAStabouts
#14 - 2012-01-15 11:36:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Something nobody has pointed out is that the vargur gets a tracking bonus, while the macha does not. It can hit smaller targets much better than the mach....making it better for missions like Vengeance and Buzz Kill.

thhief ghabmoef
Aamrr
#15 - 2012-01-15 11:38:11 UTC
The Vargur also gets more midslots, which lets it fit more tracking computers. These give 3x the tracking of a tracking enhancer, so...
Large Collidable Object
morons.
#16 - 2012-01-15 14:41:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Large Collidable Object
I personally preferred the Mach for better speed, agility, sensor strength, EHP, grid and looks.

One thing to put into consideration when using it for PVE though:
- At lvl V, Mach uses 7 guns and gets a 25% ROF, 50% falloff and 25% damage bonus
- Vargur Only uses 4 guns with a 25% ROF, 50% falloff and 100% damage bonus + an additional 37.5 tracking bonus on top.

So using faction ammo on a Vargur would be ~40% more cost-effective from using less guns alone - +X% tanks to hitting smaller targets better thanks to the tracking bonus and thus, needing less rounds.
Can't say if that makes using faction ammo worthwile on the Vargur in highsec pve, but it's certainly worth to check since the decline of LP price.

Also you could look at artillery fits for the Vargur - a bit tight on grid, but viable thanks to the tracking bonus and ability to fit more TCs with speed scripts. Overall dps would look lower, but then, you'd pretty much alpha your way through missions with ungrouped guns...
You know... [morons.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gjOx65yD5A)
Arazel Chainfire
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2012-01-15 15:02:01 UTC
For null sec anomalies, I look the the vargur before the mach. For missions, with easier to control aggro and lower dps, mach is better. For absolutely murdering everything, they both work out pretty similarly...

-Arazel
Cormallin
Horizon Security
#18 - 2012-01-21 02:32:48 UTC
Picked up a Vargur few days ago and havent looked back, less dps than a Mach but more tank and less problems with tracking its also alot more forgiving.
Jason McCoy
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#19 - 2012-01-21 02:38:46 UTC
Cormallin wrote:
Picked up a Vargur few days ago and havent looked back, less dps than a Mach but more tank and less problems with tracking its also alot more forgiving.

ya ima just pick up a vargur anyway, all these shinys errwhere. Twisted
Richard C Hoagland
Anarchos Syndicate
#20 - 2012-01-21 02:40:32 UTC
Vachir Khan wrote:
The mach does way more dps than the vargur and it's faster as well, the Vargur tanks better (especially against em/thermal) and has lower ammo cost. Thing is that under normal circumstances you don't NEED the extra tank and he extra speed of the Mach also helps to apply its superior DPS faster so it completes missions much faster.

The tractor bonus on Marauders is effectively nullified due to the uberness of the Noctis, the only real boons are increased tank and ammo usage so If you mission in Amarr space I'd get a Vargur, outside that I'd get a Mach.


If you have a marauder, and are still coming back later with a Noctis, you're doing marauders wrong. Very wrong.
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