These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Dev Blog: Bidding Farewell to the In-game Browser

First post First post First post
Author
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#21 - 2016-06-20 17:03:14 UTC
Your list is utterly incomplete. Using market tracker websites as well dotlan are far more widespread and far more important features than whatever you listed in your list. Without the IGB, I am now forced to use an out of game browser for all of that, which means constant cumbersome alt-tabbing around or use of window mode which does require tons more performance from my PC.

And if you do not endorse overlays, you better change that. You remove a vital ingame tool and have no plans or ideas to replace it properly.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Sered Woollahra
No Fixed Abode
Solyaris Chtonium
#22 - 2016-06-20 17:03:33 UTC
The problem with using an external browser is that it breaks immersion, which can be really jarring. I hope the overlays mentioned can fix that, when the IGB goes.

Wouldn't it be possible to tell the Eve client which external browser to use, and then use that engine as an IGB?
Kalbuir Skirate
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#23 - 2016-06-20 17:03:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Kalbuir Skirate
We all knew this was coming, overall I am looking forward to not having to make my stuff support Chrome 3.0 ....

However I do hope that this means that the CREST team will put certain things a bit higher on their priority list than they are now. A lot of very useful features are gone with IGB.

Now I have no idea if the design goal is to bring much of that back at all as having CREST interact with the game directly to do these old actions seems very odd but i'm going to mention them anyway.

My personal wishes would be:
- Starting conversations: We currently use this to easily reach out to new players).
- Opening mails with pre generated text: We currently use this to answer much asked questions of new Horde members.
- Creating Contracts: This feature is/was such a timesaver, a 2.0 feature to fully fill in a contract would be amazing.
- Header info: The header info was very useful for analytics as a corp / alliance but I can understand that goes byebye, what is a bit of a shame though is that currently there is no way to see if someone browsing is online in EVE. We've used this for some deployment features in Horde. Currently do not see a workaround as location endpoint in CREST gives last location even if offline (last time I checked).

Kal
CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#24 - 2016-06-20 17:06:22 UTC
Dex Cordell wrote:
Dominous Nolen wrote:
RIP IGB.. Honestly this has been expected for a long time, sad to see it happening though because it is useful in alot of ways (especially in wormhole space for mapping)



sheesh forgot about that one, goodbye mapper, dotlan...that's gonna generate an uproar.
@CCP: where did you get the usage metrics? there's loads of people who absolutely rely on a variety of ingame browser WH mappers to light their way in a world without maps and autopilot routes. I'll hate being blind past the next wormhole.


We inserted some metrics a while ago every time one of the JavaScript callbacks was used but also just for every page load, how long the browser is open, etc.

WH mappers don't need the IGB. They can pull your location from CREST.

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.

CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#25 - 2016-06-20 17:07:13 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
And if you do not endorse overlays, you better change that. You remove a vital ingame tool and have no plans or ideas to replace it properly.


We are not saying you cannot use them, just that we don't support them and if they break... /shrug contact their dev not us.

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.

Dex Cordell
EVE University
Ivy League
#26 - 2016-06-20 17:09:53 UTC
Sered Woollahra wrote:
The problem with using an external browser is that it breaks immersion, which can be really jarring. I hope the overlays mentioned can fix that, when the IGB goes.

+1 this.

Wouldn't it be possible to tell the Eve client which external browser to use, and then use that engine as an IGB?


there's already a few examples of programs using the chromium browser, I'm sure their developers provide means to integrate the engine into 3rd party software with ease, and you wouldn't have to worry about updating that part. Facebook Games for windows is one I use on a regular basis, and I don't think FB is paying chromium anything for that.
Georgiy Giggle
Senclave
Apocalypse Now.
#27 - 2016-06-20 17:11:38 UTC
That's a bullshit.
Now we will have to minimize eve client to go to a browser to check information that we need during scanning, combat, running missions etc because overlays are not the same as IGB.

-1

Not mastering proprieties, won't become firmly established. - Confucius

Postman
EVE Postal Service
#28 - 2016-06-20 17:11:47 UTC
CCP once again missed the point completely. Sites as Dotlan and the old EVElopedia are used almost always ingame. First they remove the EVElopedia, then they nerf Dotlan use.
Good thing I already cancelled my subscriptions because of vacation, now I have zero reason to come back after.

Here is a idea for the next big thing to remove from the game CCP: the actual client. Its probably to much work to maintain that and using CREST you don't need it anymore anyway, seeing how magical that CREST is.Roll
Gospadin
Bastard Children of Poinen
#29 - 2016-06-20 17:12:07 UTC
Overwolf is awful. Anyone who recommends it should be forced to run missions in EVE for their ISK.

--gos
Airi Cho
Dark-Rising
Wrecking Machine.
#30 - 2016-06-20 17:12:13 UTC
Kalbuir Skirate wrote:
We all knew this was coming, overall I am looking forward to not having to make my stuff support Chrome 3.0 ....

However I do hope that this means that the CREST team will put certain things a bit higher on their priority list than they are now. A lot of very useful features are gone with IGB.

Now I have no idea if the design goal is to bring much of that back at all as having CREST interact with the game directly to do these old actions seems very odd but i'm going to mention them anyway.

My personal wishes would be:
- Starting conversations: We currently use this to easily reach out to new players).
- Opening mails with pre generated text: We currently use this to answer much asked questions of new Horde members.


IIRC mail support for crest is on the way. probably needed for the eve mobile phone app anyway.

Quote:

- Creating Contracts: This feature is/was such a timesaver, a 2.0 feature to fully fill in a contract would be amazing.


a better version of this might be "contract templates" similar to saved fittings. and we can already push fittings via crest.
so might not be on the too far away horizon.

Quote:

- Header info: The header info was very useful for analytics as a corp / alliance but I can understand that goes byebye, what is a bit of a shame though is that currently there is no way to see if someone browsing is online in EVE. We've used this for some deployment features in Horde. Currently do not see a workaround as location gives last location even if offline (last time I checked).


Some of this might be exposed via crest as FoxFour mentioned a few times.
Aaril
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#31 - 2016-06-20 17:14:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Aaril
I, for one, have been waiting for this day for a while. I purposely avoid the IGB, and have for a long time. If I see a link today, I copy the URL and paste in a browser.

For WH mapping I already use a separate browser, as tedious as that is.

One suggestion...could you guys implement the game automatically putting URLs into the clipboard when clicked as well.

Edit: I rethought this. Instead of automatically adding to the clipboard, maybe there should be a third option..."Close and add to clipboard".

I use a sandboxed browser that can share a clipboard, so a default browser will never work for me.
Airi Cho
Dark-Rising
Wrecking Machine.
#32 - 2016-06-20 17:16:46 UTC
Aaril wrote:
I, for one, have been waiting for this day for a while. I purposely avoid the IGB, and have for a long time. If I see a link today, I copy the URL and paste in a browser.

For WH mapping I even use a separate browser, as tedious as that is.

One suggestion...could you guys implement the game automatically putting URLs into the clipboard when clicked as well.


if you just click on it it will open with your default browser anyway.

and for your mapping needs ...see crest
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#33 - 2016-06-20 17:24:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Dex Cordell wrote:
Dominous Nolen wrote:
RIP IGB.. Honestly this has been expected for a long time, sad to see it happening though because it is useful in alot of ways (especially in wormhole space for mapping)



sheesh forgot about that one, goodbye mapper, dotlan...that's gonna generate an uproar.
@CCP: where did you get the usage metrics? there's loads of people who absolutely rely on a variety of ingame browser WH mappers to light their way in a world without maps and autopilot routes. I'll hate being blind past the next wormhole.


We inserted some metrics a while ago every time one of the JavaScript callbacks was used but also just for every page load, how long the browser is open, etc.

WH mappers don't need the IGB. They can pull your location from CREST.

Of course they do. I want to see the map ingame, while I check other things and actually keep being able to check other things and do not have to alt-tab out of the game to check an external app. Like what kind of reasoning are you even using... Shocked

Your devblog also misrepresents the functionality of overlay browsers. Important things like bookmarks are missing. But that's probably also just "/shrug"

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#34 - 2016-06-20 17:26:24 UTC
RIP.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY

Alexhandr Shkarov
The MorningStar. Syndicate
#35 - 2016-06-20 17:26:34 UTC
CCP FoxFour wrote:
o7 Good bye IGB.


One of my favourite tools from the IGB was that I could link fittings directly from our doctrine page.
Would there be a way that we can do something similar with CREST by giving them the option to download all fittings within the corporate/alliance doctrines.

Right now I can simply put them into an HTML page within the auth, but after this it'll be really frustrating to import fits as new member (or after an update).

All my posts are on my personal title and should not be confused as me speaking for anyone else.

CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#36 - 2016-06-20 17:26:57 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Dex Cordell wrote:
Dominous Nolen wrote:
RIP IGB.. Honestly this has been expected for a long time, sad to see it happening though because it is useful in alot of ways (especially in wormhole space for mapping)



sheesh forgot about that one, goodbye mapper, dotlan...that's gonna generate an uproar.
@CCP: where did you get the usage metrics? there's loads of people who absolutely rely on a variety of ingame browser WH mappers to light their way in a world without maps and autopilot routes. I'll hate being blind past the next wormhole.


We inserted some metrics a while ago every time one of the JavaScript callbacks was used but also just for every page load, how long the browser is open, etc.

WH mappers don't need the IGB. They can pull your location from CREST.

Of course they do. I want to see the map ingame, while I check other things and actually keep being able to check other things and do not have to alt-tab out of the game to check an external app. Like what kind of reasoning are you even using... Shocked


Is there a reason you're unwilling to use an Overlay?

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.

TheSmokingHertog
Julia's Interstellar Trade Emperium
#37 - 2016-06-20 17:27:34 UTC  |  Edited by: TheSmokingHertog
Please put the developer time that frees up in "Little Things", like contracts for example.

"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X

"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron

-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-

Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
Coalition of the Unfortunate
#38 - 2016-06-20 17:27:50 UTC
I wonder if there would be a way for the EVE client to launch a client with the WS_EX_TOPMOST style so it could be kept on-top of the browser, for people who don't have dual screens.

It's fairly easy to read which path is used for ShellExecute.
Dex Cordell
EVE University
Ivy League
#39 - 2016-06-20 17:29:33 UTC
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Dex Cordell wrote:
Dominous Nolen wrote:
RIP IGB.. Honestly this has been expected for a long time, sad to see it happening though because it is useful in alot of ways (especially in wormhole space for mapping)



sheesh forgot about that one, goodbye mapper, dotlan...that's gonna generate an uproar.
@CCP: where did you get the usage metrics? there's loads of people who absolutely rely on a variety of ingame browser WH mappers to light their way in a world without maps and autopilot routes. I'll hate being blind past the next wormhole.


We inserted some metrics a while ago every time one of the JavaScript callbacks was used but also just for every page load, how long the browser is open, etc.

WH mappers don't need the IGB. They can pull your location from CREST.

Of course they do. I want to see the map ingame, while I check other things and actually keep being able to check other things and do not have to alt-tab out of the game to check an external app. Like what kind of reasoning are you even using... Shocked


Is there a reason you're unwilling to use an Overlay?


you already stated it, as you don't officially endorse any, by removing the browser altogether instead of looking into readily available alternatives, you force players relying on instant knowledge in often edgy situations, to use something that might not always work and for which you are not responsible. :)
CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#40 - 2016-06-20 17:29:59 UTC
Alexhandr Shkarov wrote:
CCP FoxFour wrote:
o7 Good bye IGB.


One of my favourite tools from the IGB was that I could link fittings directly from our doctrine page.
Would there be a way that we can do something similar with CREST by giving them the option to download all fittings within the corporate/alliance doctrines.

Right now I can simply put them into an HTML page within the auth, but after this it'll be really frustrating to import fits as new member (or after an update).


There is a CREST resource for creating fits. Fleet-Up uses this amazingly well. I log i to fleet-up, view the doctrines for my corp, pick the one I want to fly, click the sync to game link, switch to client, view fit in my saved fits, and buy it. So while a little longer it still works really well for that.

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.