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New Bounty System: How would you break it? Whats wrong with it?
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Lugh Crow-Slave
#21 - 2016-05-21 07:16:28 UTC
soooo if i want to kill some one i just put a small bounty on them accept it then start attacking?

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Kallavesties
Centers for Intergalactic Mercantile Acquisition
#22 - 2016-06-17 14:20:12 UTC
The bounty system as it stands Does Not encourage active participation for this mechanic. As it is you only get 20% of the active bounty once the Pod is destroyed and then another 20% pay out added for the ship being destroyed as well.

Essentially this is not "Bounty Hunting" but looks more like an ISK grab to the CCP coffers and Fraud from Toon placing the bounty.
I do not believe this is intentional but, it does make the mechanic utterly worthless.

Example: Collected a bounty (900 mil +) while in fleet (5 man), with a Ship destruction with items (200 mil +).
Reward received per participant = 6 mil + for all. * Sorry for math being off - just an example, and it did happen*

With this current system in place, the risk to Your ship and any Sec Rating hit, makes it unrealistic, hence not worth the effort.

Previous system allowed for total pay-out of 100% of just the bounty to be divided among the participants plus dropped items.

In other words, once the bounty is placed, the Toon who placed the bounty Should be responsible for the bounty cost.
Bounty collectors Should receive at least 80% of the Bounty with a 20% bounty tax kicked back to the Bounty Office CCP.

This would be more realistic as it is in the RW and everyone would get expected and fair results for their efforts.
Except the hunted ofc (You did Something to have a price placed on your head).
Natural CloneKiller
Commonwealth Mercenaries
BLACKFLAG.
#23 - 2016-06-17 14:27:43 UTC
Agree we need a better system. Existing one does not work well.
Dildus Maximus
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2016-06-17 18:11:58 UTC
Bounty system should be way more punishing and simplified at the same time. Concord should ride your behind the moment you step in high sec.
The main problem is the abuse of the system, so there needs to be a thoughtful way to prevent such mechanics.
Merovee
Gorthaur Legion
Imperium Mordor
#25 - 2016-06-17 20:42:46 UTC
Bounty should only be placed on a - sec character and only NPC bounty hunters would collect. The higher the bounty the deeper into low sec the bounty hunters would roam to seek you out.

No more bounty harassment of new players and care bears. No gaming the bounty system. Being an outlaw and surviving would mean something again.Blink You're welcome CCP (Send my isk reward to this account)Cool

Empire, the next new world order.
Sustrai Aditua
Intandofisa
#26 - 2016-06-18 03:44:23 UTC
What's wrong with the bounty system is it's not a bounty system. It's a put-a-contract-out-on-someone system CCP monkeyed with not having a clue what they were trying to do. How can this be so? (You might ask.)

A bounty is issued by a sovereign state in order to enlist civilians in the task of law enforcement. Private citizens, private corporations or any other private entity cannot issue bounties as this is illegal. It is called "murder for hire."

SO, calling a "murder for hire" system a "bounty system" confuses the "how do we make this work" issue. The thing about EVE's system is, you'll never get it to work. CCP can't decide what it is, actually. So, they'll never devise a solution for it. Naturally, this also falls under the Fails To Realistically Institute Sovereignty umbrella under which ganking miners happens to fall.

Their reluctance to fix this is hand in hand with their desire to keep ganking, as they believe it's the only thing the current playerbase really wants to do, and they'd rather have a hinky, nonsensical system that can be held up to ridicule (ridiculous system) than chance losing players who don't pay money anyway, but pay by PLEX.

What they hope to achieve by this is really the question you're asking. Answer this, the rest will either fall into place, or qualify some for the men in white coats with the large net.

If we get chased by zombies, I'm tripping you.
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#27 - 2016-06-18 05:50:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
Sustrai Aditua wrote:
What's wrong with the bounty system is it's not a bounty system. It's a put-a-contract-out-on-someone system...

Really? What contract do you put out on someone in the bounty system?


It's more like a 'lolz, I want to be notified whenever this person dies forever and ever and ever amen, even long after the bounty has expired' system.

Aside from that, it serves no practical purpose.

It hopefully ticks them off when they get the bounty initially, but it comes back 10 fold and ticks you off when you get notification after notification after notification.....stop with the goddamn notifications already....notiication after notification.....is this person killing themself with an alt?.....notification....f*ck

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
hellyeaz
Systems High Guard
Tactical Narcotics Team
#28 - 2016-06-18 09:22:58 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:


It's more like a 'lolz, I want to be notified whenever this person dies forever and ever and ever amen, even long after the bounty has expired' system.

Aside from that, it serves no practical purpose.
It hopefully ticks them off when they get the bounty initially, but it comes back 10 fold and ticks you off when you get notification after notification after notification.....stop with the goddamn notifications already....notiication after notification.....is this person killing themself with an alt?.....notification....f*ck


Getting bounties just makes pvpers laugh, not mad.
I just realized how many carebears are still getting notifications from the bounties on my head. At one point I had over a billion, all from mad hisec miners/haulers. It takes a while to lose the bounty when most of what I lose are frigs of some sort, and the occasional tactical dessy.
Now i laugh even harder. Lol
Syrias Bizniz
some random local shitlords
#29 - 2016-06-18 18:20:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Syrias Bizniz
TheDamned wrote:
I would LOVE an exciting Bounty System with some purpose. As such, below is my suggestion for how such a system should function within EVE.

#1 Someone issues a bounty on someone else which then goes to a primary bounty board for hunters to choose from.(Max of 5 at a time)
#2 A bounty hunter pays 50% of the bounty as a deposit to accept the contract. (Only serious hunters will welcome this)
#3 The Hunted player is attackable only by the Hunter, but rather than the Bounty Hunter being blown up by Concord in HS, the BH is flagged yellow for 30 minutes if he/she initiates an attack on said Hunted player.
#4 If the BH fails to kill that player within the time period allotted, his deposit is forfeit and paid to CCP and the contract will return to the Bounty Board for a new hunter to try.
#5. Instead of having an accumulated and useless bounty sum on the character, change it to the amount of bounties avoided/earned from killing them.

I feel my proposal has everything necessary for CCP to consider it.
A true purpose for something that exists but lack any real value.
Some control and risk for attacking a mark in HS while still giving him/her the opportunity to.
An ISK sink for CCP to pull more ISK out of the economy for failed attempts.

I can't think of a way to game this system, so I ask you all to.

Thanks.


Ways i'd break it:

1: Purchase my own Bounties on my alts, so others can't.
2: Blow myself up after purchasing, to collect the ISK, with my alt(s).


Ways to counter: You don't get NOTIFIED there has been a bounty placed on you. You only get notified once someone has PURCHASED the bounty license.

Contributor #1's way to exploit it: Tough to beat this. Here's some ideas:
#1 - Bounty license only claimable after 24hours of being posted on the Bounty Board.
#2 - Bounty license only obtainable at certain locations, for example, special concord offices where there's only one per empire faction, so after a license on yourself is purchased you have at least a few minutes to react.

Bonus: Bounties don't add up - every bounty is a single entity, paid off individually - if you purchase a bounty on yourself, and there's 3 others, you'll have to purchase the 3 others aswell to get rid of them all.

---

Results: You'd have to check actively to know whether or not there's a bounty on you. Noone could place a bounty on you and gank you within minutes (seconds?) after doing so. You most likely have a few minutes time after a License on your head is claimed by another player to get safe and assert the situation (and start adding bodyguards).


---

Edit: Actually, it's still exploitable then, by putting an alt into a bounty office and just checking yourself every now and then. A Bountysystem could easily be introduced, if, and only IF, CCP bans multiple accounts and instead offers unlimited character slots (more slots for monthly fee?) on one account and the ability to have several of these characters online at the same time (monthly fee?).

This would require a major rewrite of the Client, probably. And would require free account merging once it gets implemented.
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#30 - 2016-06-18 23:23:09 UTC
hellyeaz wrote:
Getting bounties just makes pvpers laugh, not mad.

Yeah, PvPers and anyone with experience, it doesn't bother in the slightest.

Newer players sometime get upset, thinking it means something and carebears who put bounties on people think "that'll show 'em".

It's quite hilarious.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Morgan Agrivar
Doomheim
#31 - 2016-06-18 23:39:48 UTC
I got an idea!

Get rid of it entirely. Waste of time, energy, isk and space.
Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#32 - 2016-06-19 09:09:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Samira Kernher
Personally I'd change it to something similar to SWG's bounty hunting system:

Remove the ability for anyone but the person who placed the bounty to see the name of the person he's bountied, and let the bounty poster establish how much of the payment is awarded for ship and how much for pod. Have bounty hunters take single contracts from the Bounty Window, which should not list any names (sort by price, at best, and perhaps give a general notice of how often the person is online, IE "this target is in pod an average of X hours per day/week" ). Taking the contract should cost the bounty hunter a percentage of the total payout, which is paid back if the contract is successful. Forfeiting a contract should lose the contract cost, to prevent taking bounties and then abandoning until they get a specific target. Only permit the hunter to have a small amount of contracts up at once, but allow multiple hunters to take the same contracts (early bird gets the worm).

Main issue with the above that I see is the hunter simply waiting until he has taken the contract and got the name, then privately contacting the target to arrange an easy kill and reward splitting.


Alternatively, just remove all automation entirely. Let posters put up bounties on people, which are available on a big public list, but have no actual mechanics with taking contracts or giving rewards. Bounty hunters can see the list, see the target and the poster, and contact the poster and work out a deal from there. Poster can then pay or not at their choice when the hunter completes the kill. Essentially giving people an in-game interface for the typical forum "kill X and take a screenshot of it and I'll pay you" threads that pop up every now and then. Similar to the above I think there should be a "this person is in pod an average of X hours per day/week" notification on the bounty list, due to the removal of watchlisting.
Blade Darth
Room for Improvement
Good Sax
#33 - 2016-06-19 19:02:23 UTC
There is an existing bounty hunter profession... it's called being a mercenary, hell, there is even whole alliances doing this. Only difference being they get paid in advance.

Omen Navy Issue Tutorial
Tiranius Avetus
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#34 - 2016-06-20 13:33:36 UTC
Can anyone explain to me why bounty payouts are only 20% of the lost ships/items value?
nezroy
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2016-06-20 15:10:51 UTC
Tiranius Avetus wrote:
Can anyone explain to me why bounty payouts are only 20% of the lost ships/items value?


Because any bounty system that pays out more than the target loses in the process is inherently flawed and subject to simple manipulation by alts.

Or are you asking why 20% specifically and not, say, 35% or 50%? And the answer to that is, insurance.
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#36 - 2016-06-20 15:36:42 UTC
Samira Kernher wrote:
Main issue with the above that I see is the hunter simply waiting until he has taken the contract and got the name, then privately contacting the target to arrange an easy kill and reward splitting.

I don't see why that is a problem. A good system would totally allow for this since this opens a lot of additional stuff that could happen:

What if the hunted agrees to get killed, but then turns on you and kills you once take the first shot? What if he let himself get killed but the hunter does not pay the ISK. So much potential.

Evil RatKid
MyLoudVoice
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2016-06-20 15:49:44 UTC
The whole thing needs to be reworked :

1/ you can only put a bounty on someone who shot you or stole from you (=who is already suspect or criminal).
He then gets a bounty improved suspect/criminal flag.

2/ per 10 million you put on him, his suspect/criminal timer is extended with 1/2 an hour. (ISK and time to be optimized of course. It's just the general idea) This timer only goes down when you are not docked/not cloaked

3/ when you kill someone with a bounty on him :
* you get an improved drop rate for items
* you get very small chance to have a tag drop. This tag can only drop once a day, server-wide. And you will not be informed of the drop if someone else gets it. By turning in the tag you enter a monthly lottery. Winner gets a percentage of all the bounty money placed that month. So 1/30 chance on some very big money (probably) with some consolation prices for the rest.
* you get an increase in security standing (only once per target. Otherwise repetitive alt killing could be be a way to buy back your standing)


So basically you force them to move to low sec / null sec where anyone can shoot them anyway, but they all get a little incentive to actually do so. I think this is rather tamper proof. Perhaps someone will kill his alt over and over to get into the lottery. But if the chances are low enough no one is going to consider this a money making exercise.
Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2016-06-20 17:21:52 UTC
If you make a radical change to the bounty system would you think that all the current bounties would need to be reset to zero?

For people who have died a few times how would the bounties be returned? Or would they be just 'written off'?

The thing is you need to come up with a bounty system that
a) cannot be turned for profit by the 'victim'
b) does not become a free ticket to bypass current hisec mechanics
c) does not need a degree in calculus to understand

If so? feel free to suggest it. But the OP here? fails the first condition

m

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)/¯
Chewytowel Haklar
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2016-06-20 18:59:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Chewytowel Haklar
Add back in full bounty payout, however anyone that pays the fee makes the target attackable by anyone in New Eden. They would simply have a special icon above their head. When someone also kills that player they also get an icon above their name and are also attackable for a time, and have to wait X hours before the award is processed by Concord/whoever. During this time they cannot dock or cloak, and tethering does not work.

I mean hey it's a start right?
Dornier Pfeil
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#40 - 2016-06-20 21:31:12 UTC
I have been nursing an idea for a bounty system but was afraid of offering it because . . . noob. This thread is a pleasant sight to see.
I have a question, though, because my idea hinges on something that seems off to me. Why does Concord SecStatus stop at +5? All other statuses reach up to +10 and all of them bottom out at -10. Why is SecStat different? For my idea to work +5 is simply too low. Absolute rock bottom minimum allowable would be +8 but ideally +10 should be the number used.
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