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Intergalactic Summit

 
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To badly go...

Author
Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#101 - 2016-06-17 13:58:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Elmund Egivand
Arkoth 24 wrote:
Claudia Osyn wrote:
Now leave, or we shall taunt you again!

You're another one who likes to be ignored we guess. Join Mr. Egivand.


You do realise that only three persons in this entire thread actually humour you, right?

Or is your eyeliner so thick you can barely make out anything?

And you are terrible at ignoring us if you could actually name someone who is mocking you. Try harder at ignoring.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.

Nanako Chosokabe
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#102 - 2016-06-17 21:02:14 UTC
Stardate: 17.6.2016.118
Region: Dod
Entry: Another Slow Day

Spent more time doing silly things like moving from a Federal Intelligence Office station to the Federal Defense Union station which tool about 5 trips just for the loot and another 3 for ships. Also captured a few more complexes but nothing significant enough to warrant a recalculation of net worth.

Been setting-up aggressively in the novice plexes as I think the Tristan might be about to make a good fight of it now (depending on who might come in) but so far, no 'guests'.

Oh and I forgot to mention that WAY back on the 13th, I was promoted to Defender Lieutenant in the FDU. No ceremony but at least the letter was nice.

Any how...more tomorrow...
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#103 - 2016-06-17 21:59:25 UTC
Congratulations on your promotion!
Nanako Chosokabe
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#104 - 2016-06-17 22:43:21 UTC
Deitra Vess wrote:
Congratulations on your promotion!


Thanks!

But I'll temper that with a bit of a whine.

I just got out of the clone pod as while doing a FW mission (a first for me) I was attacked and destroyed. As always, I take full responsibility for the lose as I saw the criminal in time and could have ran. As he was also in a Tristan I thought, "Hey, this could be a 50/50 fight!". So I turned and faced him....

But while I had time to run, I didn't have the time to check the enemy pilot first and if I had, my choice would have been different...and that brings me to my little whiny.


What is with LowSec being just a stat padding kill fest for seasoned vets?

I get that everyone wants to make easy ISK and to look as mean as possible with good K/D stats but sheesh...it's kinda pathetic. I've lost 6 skips now and the average age of the killer was 5y9m with a 5y1m median. I know skills wise I'll catch-up close to them in a month or two and ISK wise in a month or two longer than that...but experience wise, it's impossible.

From what I'd read about Lowsec, I knew that it was ruff and tumble but I didn't realize just how much people liked picking the low hanging fruit...just destroy whatever they find regardless of whether or not it's a challenge or not...or even worth the ISK.

Now where is that wine....
Sinjin Mokk
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#105 - 2016-06-17 23:15:59 UTC
Nanako Chosokabe wrote:
Deitra Vess wrote:
Congratulations on your promotion!


Thanks!

But I'll temper that with a bit of a whine.

I just got out of the clone pod as while doing a FW mission (a first for me) I was attacked and destroyed. As always, I take full responsibility for the lose as I saw the criminal in time and could have ran. As he was also in a Tristan I thought, "Hey, this could be a 50/50 fight!". So I turned and faced him....

But while I had time to run, I didn't have the time to check the enemy pilot first and if I had, my choice would have been different...and that brings me to my little whiny.


What is with LowSec being just a stat padding kill fest for seasoned vets?

I get that everyone wants to make easy ISK and to look as mean as possible with good K/D stats but sheesh...it's kinda pathetic. I've lost 6 skips now and the average age of the killer was 5y9m with a 5y1m median. I know skills wise I'll catch-up close to them in a month or two and ISK wise in a month or two longer than that...but experience wise, it's impossible.

From what I'd read about Lowsec, I knew that it was ruff and tumble but I didn't realize just how much people liked picking the low hanging fruit...just destroy whatever they find regardless of whether or not it's a challenge or not...or even worth the ISK.

Now where is that wine....



It's not a LoSec thing.

When you undock, you take your life and lives of your crew in your hands. I don't care if you're in LoSec, HiSec, NullSec, K-space, J-Space or Thera. Every time you get in your pod, there's someone out there who wants to end you. Every. Single.Time. This is why one of the first axioms we mentioned was "Don't undock what you can't afford to lose." Preceded only by "Trust no one."

All things being equal? Two of the exact same ship, two pilots with the same skill? He had you beat the moment he landed on-grid. Because he had every intention of ending you and you paused for one second. He had total control of the battlefield.

To be fair, it's as much a learned skill as an instinct. You have to hone your reaction time so that anyone who enters your space is immediately locked with all guns blazing. You can always apologize later. In time, you'll develop the skill to read the battlefield better and make quicker decisions. For now, your two options are shoot or run. Do one or do the other, but never hesitate to do either.



"Angels live, they never die, Apart from us, behind the sky. They're fading souls who've turned to ice, So ashen white in paradise."

Nanako Chosokabe
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#106 - 2016-06-17 23:37:18 UTC
Sinjin Mokk wrote:


It's not a LoSec thing.

When you undock, you take your life and lives of your crew in your hands. I don't care if you're in LoSec, HiSec, NullSec, K-space, J-Space or Thera. Every time you get in your pod, there's someone out there who wants to end you. Every. Single.Time. This is why one of the first axioms we mentioned was "Don't undock what you can't afford to lose." Preceded only by "Trust no one."

All things being equal? Two of the exact same ship, two pilots with the same skill? He had you beat the moment he landed on-grid. Because he had every intention of ending you and you paused for one second. He had total control of the battlefield.

To be fair, it's as much a learned skill as an instinct. You have to hone your reaction time so that anyone who enters your space is immediately locked with all guns blazing. You can always apologize later. In time, you'll develop the skill to read the battlefield better and make quicker decisions. For now, your two options are shoot or run. Do one or do the other, but never hesitate to do either.


Great post.

I'm 100% not upset about losing the ship(s) or how/why as I do get the whole "Don't undock.." axiom as well as the nuances of combat in general. My little whine is more about who exactly is going after new pilots in T1 frigates in the sense that other than wanting to blow something up, there is next to no risk/challenge and if they looked at my stats, would probably know that the ship is next to worthless to them.

Guess I'm just shocked at the number of old and very old captains that just attack anything that moves.

This is going to change my tactics too: as if there is almost no point in fighting then there is no point in fitting/flying an expensive (relative) ship and I'm much better off just buying cheap hulls and fly them bare-bones when running complexes. I can lose 4-6 of these husks for every one fitted Frigate so...

Any how...just needed to vet...
Sinjin Mokk
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#107 - 2016-06-18 00:03:24 UTC
Nanako Chosokabe wrote:

Great post.

I'm 100% not upset about losing the ship(s) or how/why as I do get the whole "Don't undock.." axiom as well as the nuances of combat in general. My little whine is more about who exactly is going after new pilots in T1 frigates in the sense that other than wanting to blow something up, there is next to no risk/challenge and if they looked at my stats, would probably know that the ship is next to worthless to them.

Guess I'm just shocked at the number of old and very old captains that just attack anything that moves.

This is going to change my tactics too: as if there is almost no point in fighting then there is no point in fitting/flying an expensive (relative) ship and I'm much better off just buying cheap hulls and fly them bare-bones when running complexes. I can lose 4-6 of these husks for every one fitted Frigate so...

Any how...just needed to vet...



Thanks,

In Horde, we outfit our new pilots in ships that are pretty much what you describe. Bare bones, cheap fit, easily replaceable. One pilot in a T1 Rifter or Merlin isn't going to do much damage. Twenty of them however, are a force to be reckoned with. That would be my next bit of advice. Despite the "Trust no one" statement, "Trust someone." Find some people to fly with. You'll be ten times as deadly as flying alone.

"Angels live, they never die, Apart from us, behind the sky. They're fading souls who've turned to ice, So ashen white in paradise."

Nanako Chosokabe
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#108 - 2016-06-18 00:25:14 UTC
Sinjin Mokk wrote:
Find some people to fly with. You'll be ten times as deadly as flying alone.


Everyday I take a step closer to this...Big smile

...grudgingly mind you.

BTW you are a good ambassador for the Horde and if/when I want to join a large corp, you're at the top on my list. There is a smaller local FW corp I have my eye on right now though. Not saying I will be going either way but just that I do appreciate your (and others here too) time and advice... It reflects well on the Horde. Great name too Blink
Ayallah
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#109 - 2016-06-18 00:36:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Ayallah
Nanako Chosokabe wrote:
Guess I'm just shocked at the number of old and very old captains that just attack anything that moves

Because it is kill or be killed. A one day old pilot could be flying a linked T1 frigate with maximum skills. A one day old pilot can be a interdictor with HG Ascendancies and perfect probing skills. Your naivete is why you are shocked.

Everything is a threat. Threats you take lightly are inviting death in. Groveling because you were beaten only puts blood in the water for the Hel's to hunt out.

Goddess of the IGS

As strength goes.

Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#110 - 2016-06-18 00:42:34 UTC
Nanako Chosokabe wrote:
Deitra Vess wrote:
Congratulations on your promotion!


Thanks!

But I'll temper that with a bit of a whine.

I just got out of the clone pod as while doing a FW mission (a first for me) I was attacked and destroyed. As always, I take full responsibility for the lose as I saw the criminal in time and could have ran. As he was also in a Tristan I thought, "Hey, this could be a 50/50 fight!". So I turned and faced him....

But while I had time to run, I didn't have the time to check the enemy pilot first and if I had, my choice would have been different...and that brings me to my little whiny.


What is with LowSec being just a stat padding kill fest for seasoned vets?

I get that everyone wants to make easy ISK and to look as mean as possible with good K/D stats but sheesh...it's kinda pathetic. I've lost 6 skips now and the average age of the killer was 5y9m with a 5y1m median. I know skills wise I'll catch-up close to them in a month or two and ISK wise in a month or two longer than that...but experience wise, it's impossible.

From what I'd read about Lowsec, I knew that it was ruff and tumble but I didn't realize just how much people liked picking the low hanging fruit...just destroy whatever they find regardless of whether or not it's a challenge or not...or even worth the ISK.

Now where is that wine....

What is it about low security space that makes people pad their kill records? Think of it this way, with the Matari, our young adults have things "circles" they join. They are groups that are mainly just people with shared common interests, goals and such. Low security space, for the majority of pilots who reside there, is a group that usually wants to be the best combat pilot. Thats why you see links, mid grade slave implants (well, theres many other reasons why they are more commonly used in lowsec, like bubbles in nullsec or jspace) and more expensive ships more commonly. Null sec is more tame when it comes to smaller scale combat (largely based on my own experience). Again I'm not knocking nullsec (like i said before, i learned the majority of what i know out there), but i would also say aside from simply showing up and following whatever your fleet commander tells you (( F1 warrioring )) the norm for nullsec is a little less intense than low sec.
Karina Ivanovich
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#111 - 2016-06-18 05:35:41 UTC
Nanako Chosokabe wrote:
Sinjin Mokk wrote:
Find some people to fly with. You'll be ten times as deadly as flying alone.


Everyday I take a step closer to this...Big smile

...grudgingly mind you.

BTW you are a good ambassador for the Horde and if/when I want to join a large corp, you're at the top on my list. There is a smaller local FW corp I have my eye on right now though. Not saying I will be going either way but just that I do appreciate your (and others here too) time and advice... It reflects well on the Horde. Great name too Blink


While I agree with you. Monk just joined us as well. I'm glad we made a good impression.

Some call me insane. If the universe is sane, then I embrace that label.

Nanako Chosokabe
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#112 - 2016-06-18 06:38:09 UTC
Ayallah wrote:
Groveling because you were beaten only puts blood in the water for the Hel's to hunt out.


....sorry If I touched a nerve...
Nanako Chosokabe
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#113 - 2016-06-18 06:41:26 UTC
Deitra Vess wrote:

What is it about low security space that makes people pad their kill records? Think of it this way, with the Matari, our young adults have things "circles" they join. They are groups that are mainly just people with shared common interests, goals and such. Low security space, for the majority of pilots who reside there, is a group that usually wants to be the best combat pilot. Thats why you see links, mid grade slave implants (well, theres many other reasons why they are more commonly used in lowsec, like bubbles in nullsec or jspace) and more expensive ships more commonly. Null sec is more tame when it comes to smaller scale combat (largely based on my own experience). Again I'm not knocking nullsec (like i said before, i learned the majority of what i know out there), but i would also say aside from simply showing up and following whatever your fleet commander tells you (( F1 warrioring )) the norm for nullsec is a little less intense than low sec.


Again, more great advice and insight....

It really doesn't bother me, it was just a bit of a interesting observation that I wasn't expecting. I expected NullSec to house the elite of the elite with most of the 2-4 year in space types feeling things out in LowSec. I stand corrected Big smile
Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#114 - 2016-06-18 06:49:42 UTC
I hunt alone as a privateer out in the lowsec regions. It is a far riskier affair, I admit, but at the same time far more thrilling. It also teaches some very valuable lessons on D-scan use, alertness and identifying what each and every ship you meet can or cannot do as well as learning the lay of the land.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.

Nanako Chosokabe
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#115 - 2016-06-18 07:11:56 UTC
Elmund Egivand wrote:
I hunt alone as a privateer out in the lowsec regions. It is a far riskier affair, I admit, but at the same time far more thrilling. It also teaches some very valuable lessons on D-scan use, alertness and identifying what each and every ship you meet can or cannot do as well as learning the lay of the land.



D-scan use <--- know and use it properly
alertness <--- pretty good (situalational awareness)
identifying what each... <--- needs a lot of work. Sometimes I don't even recognize the ship type
lay of the land <--- trying to roam less to help this aspect

One very important thing that needs work too is discipline. To do the same process for each bogie regardless of any other factor. I didn't check the pilots stats in my last loss and it cost me as I got tunnel-vision on just the ship type and stopped the process.
Arkoth 24
Doomheim
#116 - 2016-06-18 08:41:23 UTC
Nanako Chosokabe wrote:
What is with LowSec being just a stat padding kill fest for seasoned vets?

Wellcome to space, kiddo.
Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#117 - 2016-06-18 09:29:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Elmund Egivand
Nanako Chosokabe wrote:
Elmund Egivand wrote:
I hunt alone as a privateer out in the lowsec regions. It is a far riskier affair, I admit, but at the same time far more thrilling. It also teaches some very valuable lessons on D-scan use, alertness and identifying what each and every ship you meet can or cannot do as well as learning the lay of the land.



D-scan use <--- know and use it properly
alertness <--- pretty good (situalational awareness)
identifying what each... <--- needs a lot of work. Sometimes I don't even recognize the ship type
lay of the land <--- trying to roam less to help this aspect

One very important thing that needs work too is discipline. To do the same process for each bogie regardless of any other factor. I didn't check the pilots stats in my last loss and it cost me as I got tunnel-vision on just the ship type and stopped the process.


I suggest putting up off-grid bookmarks at least in places that see alot of activity. These are good places for you to retreat to as you try to identify exactly what you are up against. However, do not tarry for long. If you stay there for too long any determined-enough pilot will eventually narrow down exactly where you are hiding in and drop on you, as I had learnt the hard way in my last loss. I recommend spending not more than 3 minutes on each bookmark.

On the subject of knowing the land, you don't have to sacrifice roam-times but you do need to take note what is in each and every system. Which system has a lot of flashies on almost any time of the day, is it their home system, who are the natives, etc. My former instructor in Eve University who taught scouting also suggested having a notebook application active at all times to dictate to on what you found in every system. Make sure to memorise it too (takes some practice).

Ship identification at a glance usually comes with experience. You *can* speed up the learning process, though. The EFT program is very useful for this. Take any ship, check out the killboards, fit the ships according to killboards, check out the damage charts, take note of the speed of the ship, capacitor life, etc. Yes, all of this is theorywork, but it should prepare you for what to expect the next time you run into a certain ship.

Also Arkoth, if you have absolutely nothing useful to say, do yourself a favour and make yourself scarce. Acting like a brooding oh-so-mysterious edge-lord gains you absolutely no respect.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.

Skyweir Kinnison
Doomheim
#118 - 2016-06-18 11:42:56 UTC
I have read your journal with some interest, Captain Chosokabe. Thank you for sharing your journey.

I offer one more perspective on your recent experience in addition to the very wise observations of colleagues. In ancient Mannar - the time of kings and petty feudal rivalries - it was not uncommon for a victor to execute the children of their vanquished enemy. This was to ensure that they never grew up with a burning desire for vengeance and an adult's capacity to carry it out.

You fight for the Federation. The activity you undertake in the war zone furthers the Federation's aims and frustrates those who hate liberty. Both pirate and State want you dead, and moreover, would be greatly pleased if a young pilot became so disillusioned that they returned planetside and abdicated their license. Attacking you while you are less skilled, constantly and without mercy, increases the chance that you will despair and give up. Continue your resolute dedication and soon they will fall to you, but every day you fly is a victory for you.

As has been noted, it is very rare to find a fair fight anywhere in New Eden. Indeed, unless it is an arranged duel, one might well argue that if you get a fair fight you are most certainly doing it wrong. It won't be long before you are choosing the fights which you can win, based on knowing that your enemy is outclassed by the ship and fit you have chosen.

Finally, kill records are useful intel, but should not be taken too seriously. In the few highly professional corporations who know how to analyse these things for their recruitment, a long list of new pilot kills on the record of a 5 year veteran is unlikely to impress anyone - unless of course, that's the very capability for which they are looking.

Humanity has won its battle. Liberty now has a country.

Nanako Chosokabe
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#119 - 2016-06-18 15:33:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Nanako Chosokabe
Elmund Egivand wrote:
I suggest putting up off-grid bookmarks at least in places that see alot of activity. These are good places for you to retreat to as you try to identify exactly what you are up against. However, do not tarry for long. If you stay there for too long any determined-enough pilot will eventually narrow down exactly where you are hiding in and drop on you, as I had learnt the hard way in my last loss. I recommend spending not more than 3 minutes on each bookmark.

On the subject of knowing the land, you don't have to sacrifice roam-times but you do need to take note what is in each and every system. Which system has a lot of flashies on almost any time of the day, is it their home system, who are the natives, etc. My former instructor in Eve University who taught scouting also suggested having a notebook application active at all times to dictate to on what you found in every system. Make sure to memorise it too (takes some practice).

Ship identification at a glance usually comes with experience. You *can* speed up the learning process, though. The EFT program is very useful for this. Take any ship, check out the killboards, fit the ships according to killboards, check out the damage charts, take note of the speed of the ship, capacitor life, etc. Yes, all of this is theorywork, but it should prepare you for what to expect the next time you run into a certain ship.



Yes sir, already use station exit bookmarks (BMs), station arrival BMs (0km), some gate arrival BMs, gate exit BMs and a few random one. All the ones used as "viewing perches" follow the best practice of being >150km as to allow for warping to the area being observed. I actually average plopping these perches down at far greater than 150km for added security...I have one at 750km Roll

I do use the tools available to a avoid gate camps and hot systems but sometimes that data is stale or the persistence of the campers renders data null. There is one red FW-corporation that lives in my home system that really makes it tough for us to even leave the station let alone enter/exit the system.

EFT is great to familiarize oneself with ships but the sheer number of them and their main configuration types renders this a daunting task. Luckily I'm usually facing frigates or destroyers....

Again, thanks for the advice and info...
Nanako Chosokabe
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#120 - 2016-06-18 15:48:54 UTC
Skyweir Kinnison wrote:
I have read your journal with some interest, Captain Chosokabe. Thank you for sharing your journey.

I offer one more perspective on your recent experience in addition to the very wise observations of colleagues. In ancient Mannar - the time of kings and petty feudal rivalries - it was not uncommon for a victor to execute the children of their vanquished enemy. This was to ensure that they never grew up with a burning desire for vengeance and an adult's capacity to carry it out.

You fight for the Federation. The activity you undertake in the war zone furthers the Federation's aims and frustrates those who hate liberty. Both pirate and State want you dead, and moreover, would be greatly pleased if a young pilot became so disillusioned that they returned planetside and abdicated their license. Attacking you while you are less skilled, constantly and without mercy, increases the chance that you will despair and give up. Continue your resolute dedication and soon they will fall to you, but every day you fly is a victory for you.

As has been noted, it is very rare to find a fair fight anywhere in New Eden. Indeed, unless it is an arranged duel, one might well argue that if you get a fair fight you are most certainly doing it wrong. It won't be long before you are choosing the fights which you can win, based on knowing that your enemy is outclassed by the ship and fit you have chosen.

Finally, kill records are useful intel, but should not be taken too seriously. In the few highly professional corporations who know how to analyse these things for their recruitment, a long list of new pilot kills on the record of a 5 year veteran is unlikely to impress anyone - unless of course, that's the very capability for which they are looking.



Great tips too BTW. Earlier I mentioned (HERE) exactly what you said about a fair fight so to be clear, that's now what I'm looking for. As one captain put it, my naiveté is really the issue, not LowSec (or anything that goes on in New Eden).

Trying to bend the universe to your own will is a fool's errand and I know I'm treading close to that line. Your tips and others here are a great reminder that to succeed as a capsuleer, one must align oneself with the rules of the galaxy, not fight against them.
The general observation/whine I made was more born out of surprise rather than frustration (at all) but I do hear what others are responding with and how it's a slippery slope once a captain starts complaining how things should be rather than dealing with how things are.

But I'm cutting into my correspondence time so I need to cut this short. Glad you uploaded a letter and hope you keep reading/posting.