Intergalactic Summit

I would just put here a note that the discussion is actually not about slavery, but about a man, who dishonored himself by a treason and only used this slavery business as a puny excuse.

In questions of honor and treason slavery is insignificant topic.

Vess knows crap...

Hows this for a dillusion? The imperial dog tags I have sitting in Eram exist. Know where I got them? (No, not from killing in the TLF, those ones are in Amamake, Egghelende and Bosborgor) From destroying quite a few imperial navy ships over many occasions where I ambushed slaver convoys. In Metropolis. A Matari region. Explain to me what your completely not dillusion based conversation with MIO agents had to say about that? You know, in that oh so professional organization that gives unlimited information clearances to contractors* because "who needs op security anyways?"

*Hint: contractors can be soldiers, you weren't in the MIO but accepted contracts to do work for them upon the completion of your terms you were not associated with them. What does that make you?

Fortunately I was reborn in the Federation so I have that privilege to be already free. As a free capsuleer I won't join any violent actions against the Amarr. Destroying their fleets, or bombing their cities won't persuade them to end their inhumane way of life.

But what I can offer is support for the cause in form of resources, money and influence.

My fleet of fast warp trading ships is ready to transport refugees out of the empire. I can convert some transport container into "enjoyable" habitats so they can stay for a while in my storage facilities without getting noticed, until a new home is found. Furthermore I can deliver food, clothes and everything else to start a new life. I also may be able to persuade some of my former teachers of the UoC to give some of them a proper education.

^^

I can't provide a home for many but am willing to support those who can. Since more than a year I pay into a charity fund for capsuleers in need. Here I can divert some money for this cause if needed.

You're of course living in a bygone era.

Slavery isn't needed. Shocking for me to say, I know. The criminal, the molester, the prisoner of war, they can be repaired. The use of TCMCs or other behavioral adaptations can be used to rehabilitate. On the outside, they could simply be executed or incarcerated.

The only reason a slaver operates is because he can. Because there is profit in the action. Scripture gives one license. Law gives one permission. But it's a choice. And it's actually an easy choice. Rehabilitation or incarceration takes time and effort. Those options and execution are a waste of a potential resource. Slavery is the easy, ofttimes cost-effective way of dealing with an undesirable. And for other organizations outside the Empire, slavery is quick ISK.

In Amarr, this a positive moral choice. It's in the Scriptures. All Amarr are slaves under God. And all Amarr support the system of slavery. So if you're against slavery on moral grounds, I hope none of you are under the impression that your Amarrian friends are anything more than slavers. But if you like slavery, then revel in it. Stop apologizing and recognize that your rights as a slaver far outweigh the slaves' rights to self-determination.

God makes no excuses.

I wouldn't say the aim is re-education and rehabilitation. While that's certainly an expected responsibility for the Holder, Holders do not keep slaves for the benefit of the slaves. It's the opposite. Slaves work for the benefit of the Holders, and receive a second chance at finding God's favor through that service. Slaves are servants first, students second--and only if their Holder upholds his or her religious obligations.

Merely aiming to profit is certainly not enough on its own to keep slaves, no. You have to have a title. That's the only really necessary thing.

The amount of bullshit and naivety about slavery in this thread is mind-numbing.

I'm quite happy to know that at least these freemen are now long out of the clutches of that system of oppression and those that support it with any sort of justifications or qualifications they can attempt to make to rationalize it.

Yes, it is.




Unlucky in that we were born descended from criminals, certainly.



We fight for God. To uphold His plans for us. We are a civilization that has lasted for four thousand years, that has seen trillions of trillions of scholars, priests, scientists, and other wisemen live and die seeking out the why's of our existence. We don't fight for slavery, we fight to discover the meaning of life, to fulfill our purpose.

But if you want to know the thing Amarr really fights for, with all of the religious rhetoric divorced from it? Unity. Amarr fights for the unification of all humanity, all creation even, into one, single whole. The Empire of God. That's the Reclaiming, the Destiny of Faith. It is what we believe to be our purpose, and it is a complete quest on its own. Thoughts and actions must be brought in order, the natural laws of the universe must be uncovered so that we know how to best adhere to them, territory must be expanded, and people must be brought into the whole. Amarr's fight will not be over until our Empire stretches across the whole universe, all people one under God and our eyes open to the fullness of His creation, and the Books of Scripture at last closed because there is no more left to add.

Slavery has been part of our culture for so long because it was a means by which to integrate conquered people into our society in a way in which their previous values could not spread to erode the unity we are seeking to build. As I would hope a former Holder would know, in Amarr you are not a citizen if you are not a member of the faith. Conquered peoples are, for the most part, not members of the faith. There are two responses that can be taken to that, in a society in which simply casting them out is contrary to our goals. You can demand they all convert, and execute those who refuse or give only lip service (which would lead to an extremely high death toll), or you can isolate them in their own communities until they integrate, or their descendants have. But those communities can not be kept funded on charity. There has to be a reason to spend so much money on feeding, clothing, and housing these groups of foreigners. So, a reason was given: Put them to work. If they are useful, then resources can be spent to keep them alive and healthy. Slavery was not created for the benefit of the slaves, certainly; it was created for benefit of the land holders and governors who were going to be burdened with a bunch of resentful people that didn't follow the same religion, didn't speak the same language, and didn't have any money, but did have skills and the ability to perform labor. Slavery was an answer to the question, "What do you do with a conquered people?"

Whether you believe in the religious incentive is irrelevant. For the goals we seek, slavery was deemed beneficial. It had a use for our society. Of course, the needs of society is something that is often considered irrelevant by people who argue only on behalf of individual freedom.

Is slavery still necessary today? Well, that's a much more complicated question. Certainly its current form is dated, and today the greatest threat of foreign influence comes not from conquered peoples in our midst but from the outside, from the holonet network, open trade markets, and interstellar integration. It's no longer possible to simply cordon away subversive elements, because subversive elements are all around us and we don't have the power to defeat them in the way we could before. And slaves represent the single biggest vulnerability to those foreign ideas, because we're already in a place of uncertainty; we're already people whose lives are spent being built into what others wish of us.

Amarr don't fight "for slavery". We fight for unification, for the Reclaiming. It's possible that we'll eventually eliminate slavery on our own someday because it is becoming increasingly less relevant in the modern age, but it did have a purpose in our society. It wouldn't have lasted four thousand years if it hadn't.



It's not a very good argument that presents a case without explaining why that case is the right one. A lot of people in this thread are very intent on arguing that something is good "just because".

It's not a very good argument that presents a case without explaining why that case is the right one. A lot of people in this thread are very intent on arguing that something is good "just because".[/quote]

That explains why it is better, Freedom just simply is better than tyranny. In the empire you have to follow god's word 100% or you are in trouble. Here, my breathren do not care what religion I follow nor do they care if I follow none at all. This latter concept is simply better. So lets do a side by side comparison of 2 philosophy options.

Option 1-There is 1 god you must worship and obey, or else.
Option 2- You can worship or not worship whatever god you feel like.

So.........in option 1 you get 1 religion to choose from, in option 2 you get a multitude .

How is the 2nd not better? It just is, there does not need to be an explanation why the 2nd option is better, it just is.

That being the case Ms. Del'thul why don't you step up to the challenge? Join the dialogue rather than just criticizing from the sidelines.