These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Technology Lab

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Note on some broken CREST things

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#21 - 2016-06-16 18:52:54 UTC
Squizz Caphinator wrote:
Rear Admiral Barrington wrote:
But without the ability to compare epeens on ZKill, the whole of FW space is going to become a pacifist nightmare this weekend!

We'll all be holding hands and singing Kumbaya before Saturday is out!


I might have a fix in place that will get around this issue. Won't be able to implement until tomorrow morning though.


Color me intrigued. Looking forward to seeing what you come up with.

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#22 - 2016-06-16 18:53:07 UTC
Xaroth Brook wrote:
Ohno no Borrox wrote:
Man, I just love it when CCP paint a big target on their own backs.

So what you're telling us is that, although this issue has been in around for at least two days, it's taken you this long to get it fixed. Additionally you do not have enough confidence in the "fix" to deploy it anyway (if it is really fixed). Further, why do it Monday, so you can fix any more bugs in it that may jump out and bite you, when you can leave it until Tuesday when it will be lost in the pile of other things that go wrong - it's not like the users are customers or anything.

I really want to work there - it's just so customer focused



The fact they have the smarts to not deploy before a 3-day-weekend with nobody to fix bigger issues, proves how customer focused they are.

What would you rather, 3 ( 4 ) days of not having a few things, or risk not having all of CREST for the duration of that time?


Appreciate the understanding. :)

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#23 - 2016-06-16 18:54:47 UTC
Analius Glover wrote:
What about the outstanding kills - will they be updated?


So long as it is not a killmail where someone is in a faction it should process as normal on zKB. If it does have a faction once the fix is deployed on Tuesday zKB will be able to process all the killmails they got that were broken.

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#24 - 2016-06-16 18:54:58 UTC
Joseph Guillotine wrote:
sad panda Cry


Very sorry. :(

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#25 - 2016-06-16 19:05:06 UTC
Ohno no Borrox wrote:
you don't address the issue of not getting the fix out on Monday


Assuming you want a real answer and are not trolling, which I will give the benefit of the doubt on here, I am happy to answer that.

Essentially we have a few branches at play in our source control. Lets call the first branch TQ. This branch is meant to be exactly the same code that is deployed to TQ at all times. Lets call our second branch staging. This is where all code goes for some testing and before going to the TQ branch.

I have deployed all the fixes to the staging branch and they have been tested and verified as fixed. However since they are not going out right away I have not ported them to the TQ branch. If I ported them to the TQ branch now and we didn't deploy them until Monday the TQ branch would NOT represent what TQ actually was. This may seem like a stupid little thing that makes no sense and is just delaying code going out but lets look at an example of why this is important.

Lets say I Saturday comes along and we find a critical issue in EVE. Maybe a security vulnerability or something. The issue is important enough that we call someone into the office, they make a fix in the TQ branch, take TQ down, and deploy the new build. Well now my code has gone out as well and I wasn't around. What if my code breaks something? What if my code interacts with the other fix in an odd way? Plenty of reasons to have that branch be clean.

So since I am not porting my code from staging to TQ until as close as possible to the point of us actually shipping it lets look at Monday. To get it in for Monday I have to submit the code the day before to the TQ branch so our automated builds and tests can run. The day before is a Sunday. Fortunately for me CCP is an awesome company that understands a work life balance and encourages us to not work on the weekends if at all possible.

TL;DR: No deployment on Monday because I like having a life and not working on a Sunday.

Hope that answers your question. :)

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
dephekt
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#26 - 2016-06-16 19:06:00 UTC
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Squizz Caphinator wrote:
Rear Admiral Barrington wrote:
But without the ability to compare epeens on ZKill, the whole of FW space is going to become a pacifist nightmare this weekend!

We'll all be holding hands and singing Kumbaya before Saturday is out!


I might have a fix in place that will get around this issue. Won't be able to implement until tomorrow morning though.


Color me intrigued. Looking forward to seeing what you come up with.

Squizz Caphinator the hero we all need :P
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#27 - 2016-06-16 19:53:38 UTC
Xaroth Brook wrote:
Ohno no Borrox wrote:
Man, I just love it when CCP paint a big target on their own backs.

So what you're telling us is that, although this issue has been in around for at least two days, it's taken you this long to get it fixed. Additionally you do not have enough confidence in the "fix" to deploy it anyway (if it is really fixed). Further, why do it Monday, so you can fix any more bugs in it that may jump out and bite you, when you can leave it until Tuesday when it will be lost in the pile of other things that go wrong - it's not like the users are customers or anything.

I really want to work there - it's just so customer focused



The fact they have the smarts to not deploy before a 3-day-weekend with nobody to fix bigger issues, proves how customer focused they are.

What would you rather, 3 ( 4 ) days of not having a few things, or risk not having all of CREST for the duration of that time?

Actually, as a paying customer I would have expected it to be fixed 2 days ago when it first came to light there was a problem but this is CCP.
Customer service is not a consideration when it comes to, Devs having a long weekend..

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#28 - 2016-06-16 20:05:35 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Xaroth Brook wrote:
Ohno no Borrox wrote:
Man, I just love it when CCP paint a big target on their own backs.

So what you're telling us is that, although this issue has been in around for at least two days, it's taken you this long to get it fixed. Additionally you do not have enough confidence in the "fix" to deploy it anyway (if it is really fixed). Further, why do it Monday, so you can fix any more bugs in it that may jump out and bite you, when you can leave it until Tuesday when it will be lost in the pile of other things that go wrong - it's not like the users are customers or anything.

I really want to work there - it's just so customer focused



The fact they have the smarts to not deploy before a 3-day-weekend with nobody to fix bigger issues, proves how customer focused they are.

What would you rather, 3 ( 4 ) days of not having a few things, or risk not having all of CREST for the duration of that time?

Actually, as a paying customer I would have expected it to be fixed 2 days ago when it first came to light there was a problem but this is CCP.
Customer service is not a consideration when it comes to, Devs having a long weekend..


Yup! Better a company work their employees into the ground, burn them out, break the local laws (max hours per week, the contract signed about working hours/days, etc.), and generally make their employees miserable and less productive. That always solves ALL the problems.

[img]https://media.giphy.com/media/JyAEGYixkiF5m/giphy.gif[/img]

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
Edd Reynolds
V0LTA
OnlyFleets.
#29 - 2016-06-16 20:07:07 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
Xaroth Brook wrote:
Ohno no Borrox wrote:
Man, I just love it when CCP paint a big target on their own backs.

So what you're telling us is that, although this issue has been in around for at least two days, it's taken you this long to get it fixed. Additionally you do not have enough confidence in the "fix" to deploy it anyway (if it is really fixed). Further, why do it Monday, so you can fix any more bugs in it that may jump out and bite you, when you can leave it until Tuesday when it will be lost in the pile of other things that go wrong - it's not like the users are customers or anything.

I really want to work there - it's just so customer focused



The fact they have the smarts to not deploy before a 3-day-weekend with nobody to fix bigger issues, proves how customer focused they are.

What would you rather, 3 ( 4 ) days of not having a few things, or risk not having all of CREST for the duration of that time?

Actually, as a paying customer I would have expected it to be fixed 2 days ago when it first came to light there was a problem but this is CCP.
Customer service is not a consideration when it comes to, Devs having a long weekend..


Yes, because bugs don't take any time to fix. And it's not like CCP need to test those fixes to make sure that they actually fix the problem and don't break something else.

And at the end of the day, this is a job for CCP-ers. A job many of them are passionate about, sure, but we can only expect so much of them, even as paying customers. And asking someone to work in their own time to deliver a fix for what is essentially an inconvenience to you? **** that entitlement.
Ayuren Aakiwa
Shadow Legion X
Seriously Suspicious
#30 - 2016-06-16 20:35:23 UTC
Ohno no Borrox wrote:
Man, I just love it when CCP paint a big target on their own backs.

So what you're telling us is that, although this issue has been in around for at least two days, it's taken you this long to get it fixed. Additionally you do not have enough confidence in the "fix" to deploy it anyway (if it is really fixed). Further, why do it Monday, so you can fix any more bugs in it that may jump out and bite you, when you can leave it until Tuesday when it will be lost in the pile of other things that go wrong - it's not like the users are customers or anything.

I really want to work there - it's just so customer focused




mate do you honestly care that much about looking at a killboard? You should go outside or maybe even just upstairs I'm sure your mom misses you (she told me so last night)
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#31 - 2016-06-16 20:39:01 UTC
Stop complaining. Personally, I'm just glad we're getting so many CREST updates before FoxFour's imminent departure.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#32 - 2016-06-16 20:43:48 UTC
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Ohno no Borrox wrote:
you don't address the issue of not getting the fix out on Monday


Assuming you want a real answer and are not trolling, which I will give the benefit of the doubt on here, I am happy to answer that.

Essentially we have a few branches at play in our source control. Lets call the first branch TQ. This branch is meant to be exactly the same code that is deployed to TQ at all times. Lets call our second branch staging. This is where all code goes for some testing and before going to the TQ branch.

I have deployed all the fixes to the staging branch and they have been tested and verified as fixed. However since they are not going out right away I have not ported them to the TQ branch. If I ported them to the TQ branch now and we didn't deploy them until Monday the TQ branch would NOT represent what TQ actually was. This may seem like a stupid little thing that makes no sense and is just delaying code going out but lets look at an example of why this is important.

Lets say I Saturday comes along and we find a critical issue in EVE. Maybe a security vulnerability or something. The issue is important enough that we call someone into the office, they make a fix in the TQ branch, take TQ down, and deploy the new build. Well now my code has gone out as well and I wasn't around. What if my code breaks something? What if my code interacts with the other fix in an odd way? Plenty of reasons to have that branch be clean.

So since I am not porting my code from staging to TQ until as close as possible to the point of us actually shipping it lets look at Monday. To get it in for Monday I have to submit the code the day before to the TQ branch so our automated builds and tests can run. The day before is a Sunday. Fortunately for me CCP is an awesome company that understands a work life balance and encourages us to not work on the weekends if at all possible.

TL;DR: No deployment on Monday because I like having a life and not working on a Sunday.

Hope that answers your question. :)
So basically what you just said is; I fixed the code AND tested it but it might still break something when implemented. So it wasn't really tested all that well to start with - was it?

CCP doesn't seem to understand - Customer satisfaction should come first, second and third as a priority - If staff having an extra day off is so important, let them have it once the problem is fixed.

There is nothing "awesome" about a company that sees customer satisfaction as such a low priority.

Quote:
TL;DR: No deployment on Monday because I like having a life and not working on a Sunday
Why not? You've already had Friday and Saturday off - That's more of a weekend than a lot of us ever get. Just as well you aren't in a job that requires some commitment, houses would burn, patients would die, etc.
Yes I am comparing your work ethic to the thousands who pay to play Eve.

PS; your TL;DR makes you look bad. Would have been better had you NOT included it.

Because we luv Eve, we will wait while you ponce around "having a life", you poor self entitled thing you.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#33 - 2016-06-16 20:50:56 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Ohno no Borrox wrote:
you don't address the issue of not getting the fix out on Monday


Assuming you want a real answer and are not trolling, which I will give the benefit of the doubt on here, I am happy to answer that.

Essentially we have a few branches at play in our source control. Lets call the first branch TQ. This branch is meant to be exactly the same code that is deployed to TQ at all times. Lets call our second branch staging. This is where all code goes for some testing and before going to the TQ branch.

I have deployed all the fixes to the staging branch and they have been tested and verified as fixed. However since they are not going out right away I have not ported them to the TQ branch. If I ported them to the TQ branch now and we didn't deploy them until Monday the TQ branch would NOT represent what TQ actually was. This may seem like a stupid little thing that makes no sense and is just delaying code going out but lets look at an example of why this is important.

Lets say I Saturday comes along and we find a critical issue in EVE. Maybe a security vulnerability or something. The issue is important enough that we call someone into the office, they make a fix in the TQ branch, take TQ down, and deploy the new build. Well now my code has gone out as well and I wasn't around. What if my code breaks something? What if my code interacts with the other fix in an odd way? Plenty of reasons to have that branch be clean.

So since I am not porting my code from staging to TQ until as close as possible to the point of us actually shipping it lets look at Monday. To get it in for Monday I have to submit the code the day before to the TQ branch so our automated builds and tests can run. The day before is a Sunday. Fortunately for me CCP is an awesome company that understands a work life balance and encourages us to not work on the weekends if at all possible.

TL;DR: No deployment on Monday because I like having a life and not working on a Sunday.

Hope that answers your question. :)
So basically what you just said is; I fixed the code AND tested it but it might still break something when implemented. So it wasn't really tested all that well to start with - was it?

CCP doesn't seem to understand - Customer satisfaction should come first, second and third as a priority - If staff having an extra day off is so important, let them have it once the problem is fixed.

There is nothing "awesome" about a company that sees customer satisfaction as such a low priority.

Quote:
TL;DR: No deployment on Monday because I like having a life and not working on a Sunday
Why not? You've already had Friday and Saturday off - That's more of a weekend than a lot of us ever get. Just as well you aren't in a job that requires some commitment, houses would burn, patients would die, etc.
Yes I am comparing your work ethic to the thousands who pay to play Eve.

PS; your TL;DR makes you look bad. Would have been better had you NOT included it.

Because we luv Eve, we will wait while you ponce around "having a life", you poor self entitled thing you.


[img]https://media.giphy.com/media/MLBar70TGTf0Y/giphy.gif[/img]

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
smoopmeister
Cause For Concern
Ad Nauseam .
#34 - 2016-06-16 21:27:35 UTC
Thank you, FoxFour, for the update.
CCP FoxFour
C C P
C C P Alliance
#35 - 2016-06-16 21:29:42 UTC
smoopmeister wrote:
Thank you, FoxFour, for the update.


You're more than welcome friend. :)

@CCP_FoxFour // Technical Designer // Team Tech Co

Third-party developer? Check out the official developers site for dev blogs, resources, and more.
MachineOfLovingGrace
V0LTA
OnlyFleets.
#36 - 2016-06-16 22:24:29 UTC
Sgt Ocker wrote:
So basically what you just said is; I fixed the code AND tested it but it might still break something when implemented. So it wasn't really tested all that well to start with - was it?

CCP doesn't seem to understand - Customer satisfaction should come first, second and third as a priority - If staff having an extra day off is so important, let them have it once the problem is fixed.

There is nothing "awesome" about a company that sees customer satisfaction as such a low priority.

Quote:
TL;DR: No deployment on Monday because I like having a life and not working on a Sunday
Why not? You've already had Friday and Saturday off - That's more of a weekend than a lot of us ever get. Just as well you aren't in a job that requires some commitment, houses would burn, patients would die, etc.
Yes I am comparing your work ethic to the thousands who pay to play Eve.

PS; your TL;DR makes you look bad. Would have been better had you NOT included it.

Because we luv Eve, we will wait while you ponce around "having a life", you poor self entitled thing you.


I am amazed that any dev is still posting in this forums - sometimes I wonder what this community is on about.

Thanks for the insight into the testing/deploying process, FoxFour. How formalized/automated is the deploying, is it basically a button in a webform or an arcane web of scripts?
IronBank
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2016-06-16 23:23:10 UTC
Daw the GIF's in this thread are the best!

Cheersw for the update FoxFour, was wondering why my 1 gorrillion isk RHEA explosion has not shown up yet... Cool
Kaelke
Evil Dutch Bastards
System Wide Adaptive Roam Massacres
#38 - 2016-06-16 23:50:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaelke
It not working and being fixed on tuesday, after it being known for some time, well, disappointing. **** happens.

The attitude towards customers asking about it, embarrassing.
Hire someone to do that for you. If i told my customers what you are telling yours inhere, i would be out of customers real soon.
But hey, just launch some new skins, maybe another expansion and your customer count is back up again, right?
Jaa'Vel Kor
Doomheim
#39 - 2016-06-17 00:41:02 UTC
Look at the bright side people! It's time to burn on pvp those 5bill Vindicators solo and no one will know how bad you are in eve Lol... No KB, no fear, just balls deep! hahaha
RoomUnaut
State War Academy
Caldari State
#40 - 2016-06-17 01:26:59 UTC  |  Edited by: RoomUnaut
Handle business FoxFour! Software development ain't easy, and always a bad idea to release on a Friday (especially with a well deserved 3 day weekend coming up)!

Thanks for letting us know, and hope you have an epic weekend!

Cheers!
http://33.media.tumblr.com/a23fb6be88127e8bb6fa36a63786b331/tumblr_nj08kejyUd1smcbm7o1_500.gif