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AFK Cloaky Camping falls under Input Automation definition

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Christo Severasse
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2016-06-13 10:07:29 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Christo Severasse wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Christo Severasse wrote:
OP complains about afk cloaky camping as it involves AUTOMATION (even though it clearly doesn't). Wants an afk flag AUTOMATICALLY applied to make it easier to identify them.

*Caps use intentional to highlight 1: hypocrisy and 2: irony.


Not a very bright one are you, but you are in RvB being farmed so what ho, I am not the OP, I am just taking the opportunity to suggest the AFK flag which I do on every AFK Cloaky thread, because so many people say it does not matter as he is AFK so I said OK have an AFK flag and then they all scream it matters, its rather hilarious actually... and rather ironic and dare I say it showing acute levels of hypocrisy.

When you hunt them you have to find out when the little dears are active so you can bait them for results, not while they are snoring their heads off or under the whip at work.



You got my number, bud. Congratulations.
On the other hand I am enjoying the game and not scared my space pixels might get blown up and that I have to spend pretend space money to replace them.

You are not the OP, no matter, my comment is still accurate as you have the same mind set.


Oh really, so you are saying someone who wants to hunt them but does not want to waste his time when they are AFK has the same mindset, wow, I repeat you are not very bright are you, perfect material for the kill farmers in RvB, have fun...


Dude, if you want to hunt them drop your cloak and let them come to you. Or are you only happy to hunt people if you have a clear advantage?
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#42 - 2016-06-13 10:10:19 UTC
can we have a flag for people who are undocked? so it doesnt seem a waste of time scanning systems out to see whats ratting, or what about a flag if you are ratting or mining? saves a lot of time tbh

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Mortlake
Republic Military School
#43 - 2016-06-13 10:13:10 UTC
Miss Scordite wrote:

  • This is an automation - player's ship remains cloaked and present in a system by itself, without any attention paid to a game client. Just because there is no third-party software doesn't mean this action is not performed automatically;

    • This applies to practically every miner with an active module.

    Sometimes you hit the bar and sometimes the bar hits you...
    cBOLTSON
    School of Applied Knowledge
    Caldari State
    #44 - 2016-06-13 10:23:47 UTC
    It is somewhat straight forward to work around cloaky campers - including but not limited to old favourites like
    "Moving system" (that's assuming that you have other good systems to use)
    "standing fleets / running in gangs" this is a personal favourite
    "Cyno jammers" (wont help deter black ops gangs but hey it stops a carrier cyno'ing in on your face.)

    That being said, AFK all day style cloaky camping is just a bad game mechanic that I would hope CCP will change for something more engaging for both the attacker and defender.

    Some people hate cloaky campers, some people love to cloaky camp. Personally I have done a little of both and think that there is a better way for sure.

    The good old days of Unreal Tournament, fragging and sniping on Facing Worlds, listening to Foregone Destruction.......
    Dracvlad
    Taishi Combine
    Astral Alliance
    #45 - 2016-06-13 10:36:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
    Christo Severasse wrote:
    Dude, if you want to hunt them drop your cloak and let them come to you. Or are you only happy to hunt people if you have a clear advantage?


    Well as I got on a Cloaky Goon Tengu camper km with a Badger I can say to you baiting only works when people are active, but it can be great fun...

    When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

    Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
    Dracvlad
    Taishi Combine
    Astral Alliance
    #46 - 2016-06-13 10:45:31 UTC
    Lan Wang wrote:
    can we have a flag for people who are undocked? so it doesnt seem a waste of time scanning systems out to see whats ratting, or what about a flag if you are ratting or mining? saves a lot of time tbh


    The AFK flag should apply to people in station too if that helps...

    When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

    Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
    Dracvlad
    Taishi Combine
    Astral Alliance
    #47 - 2016-06-13 10:49:22 UTC
    Mortlake wrote:
    Miss Scordite wrote:

  • This is an automation - player's ship remains cloaked and present in a system by itself, without any attention paid to a game client. Just because there is no third-party software doesn't mean this action is not performed automatically;

    • This applies to practically every miner with an active module.


    Rubbish, the miner has to manage roid selection and application of the mining lasar, as well as moving to get the desired roid in range, whereas a cloaky camper just clicks his cloak once and he is golden. But do not take from my reply I want to change the cloak, I do not, cloaks are perfectly fine as is. I do not want to see fuel requirements or the need to re-click every so often, the AFK flag was the only way to do this without causing a cascade of bad decisions for game play.

    Eve has to have no easy log off which is about the right balance, but the negative is AFK cloak camping which can be reduced in affect by a AFK flag.

    When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

    Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
    Lan Wang
    Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
    Safety. Net
    #48 - 2016-06-13 10:49:38 UTC
    Dracvlad wrote:
    Lan Wang wrote:
    can we have a flag for people who are undocked? so it doesnt seem a waste of time scanning systems out to see whats ratting, or what about a flag if you are ratting or mining? saves a lot of time tbh


    The AFK flag should apply to people in station too if that helps...


    i dont have an issue of afk cloakies, i have an an issue of having to scan out big systems, or dock in every station to realise nobody is actually in space

    Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

    Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
    Dracvlad
    Taishi Combine
    Astral Alliance
    #49 - 2016-06-13 11:04:27 UTC
    Lan Wang wrote:
    Dracvlad wrote:
    Lan Wang wrote:
    can we have a flag for people who are undocked? so it doesnt seem a waste of time scanning systems out to see whats ratting, or what about a flag if you are ratting or mining? saves a lot of time tbh


    The AFK flag should apply to people in station too if that helps...


    i dont have an issue of afk cloakies, i have an an issue of having to scan out big systems, or dock in every station to realise nobody is actually in space


    That's rather trival as compared to hunting a cloaky camper, for my own part having an idea on who was active in a system I was camping rather helps, but you are talking about low sec and I am talking about sov 0.0 where I cannot check the stations...

    When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

    Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
    Elenahina
    Federal Navy Academy
    Gallente Federation
    #50 - 2016-06-13 11:08:47 UTC
    Paranoid Loyd wrote:
    Roll


    That's pretty much all that needs to be said.

    Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno
    Sequester Risalo
    Significant Others
    #51 - 2016-06-13 11:27:48 UTC
    Dracvlad wrote:
    Mortlake wrote:
    Miss Scordite wrote:

  • This is an automation - player's ship remains cloaked and present in a system by itself, without any attention paid to a game client. Just because there is no third-party software doesn't mean this action is not performed automatically;

    • This applies to practically every miner with an active module.


    Rubbish, the miner has to manage roid selection and application of the mining lasar, as well as moving to get the desired roid in range, whereas a cloaky camper just clicks his cloak once and he is golden.


    I was going to write the same in a lengthy post explaining why afk cloaking is not input automation. Then I soon gathered that nobody here seriously supports the thesis of the OP which was supposedly only aimed at stirring up feces. But it seems some clarification is really needed.

    Clicking the cloaking device one results in it running until cap runs out. In case of stable fits that's never.
    Clicking on a mining laser, armor repper, shield hardener, missile launcher etc has exactly the same result.
    I understand that one of the two options does affect you more than the other. Still, for the purpose of the input automation rule this thread supposedly is about both actions are identical.

    Also be advised that the input automation rule doesn't care if you are present or afk. It simply requires you to communicate with the EVE client yourself in person and not via a bot/multiplier. If the EVE client then repeatedly performs the same action or one action eternally, is completely in line with this rule. Otherwise every miner, PvPer and PvEer would have to be banned under this rule.
    Roenok Baalnorn
    Baalnorn Heavy Industries
    #52 - 2016-06-13 12:03:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Roenok Baalnorn
    The problem many people have with cloaky camping is the lack of tools to fight it effectively. It is a tactic that really has only 2 counters: One, ignore it and hope the camper isnt a dropper. Two, switch systems. The argumen is that no one should be able to sit in space for long periods with no risk.

    The irony of this is that the same people that support cloaky camping would be the first to complain about people who could rat or mine without any or little risk


    Every tactic in eve should have an effective counter tactic. Apparently CCP agrees, as they are working on a counter, from what i read, for cloaky campers.
    Esrevid Nekkeg
    Justified and Ancient
    #53 - 2016-06-13 12:10:19 UTC
    Miss Scordite wrote:
    ... This is an automation - player's ship remains cloaked and present in a system by itself, without any attention paid to a game client. Just because there is no third-party software doesn't mean this action is not performed automatically
    So doing nothing is an action performed automatically?
    Wait here, I will be right back. I have to tell my boss that doing nothing is actually automating the workload. win/win...Twisted

    Here I used to have a sig of our old Camper in space. Now it is disregarded as being the wrong format. Looking out the window I see one thing: Nothing wrong with the format of our Camper! Silly CCP......
    Jenn aSide
    Worthless Carebears
    The Initiative.
    #54 - 2016-06-13 12:35:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
    There are few things i find more irritating that people complaining about 'cloaky' camping. It's so intensely weak minded it's not funny. In my group, we rat and mine and ignore cloaky campers. We WANT you to drop us, how else will we get Blops kills with mining and ratting fit non-pvp ships?

    The cloaky camper complainers are just the 'bumped miners' of null sec. The 1st thing we in my corp noticed is that that when you get a reputation for fighting back and killing hot droppers and cloaky solo camper types, you stop having to deal with hot droppers and cloaky solo camper types (because those people react to cost-beneift analysis just like every one else....we COST too much for them to have fun with so they move on to places where people don't fight back).
    Shae Tadaruwa
    Science and Trade Institute
    Caldari State
    #55 - 2016-06-13 12:42:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
    Can we have this flag for when they are AFK.

    With my leet hunting and pvp skills, I want to know when they aren't going to shoot back at me, because this is nullsec and shooting at ships that won't shoot back will make me uber leet.

    So knowing they are AFK would be great thanks.

    Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
    Elenahina
    Federal Navy Academy
    Gallente Federation
    #56 - 2016-06-13 12:48:02 UTC
    Christo Severasse wrote:

    Dude, if you want to hunt them drop your cloak and let them come to you. Or are you only happy to hunt people if you have a clear advantage?


    Um, duh. That's just human nature. In general, people don't go picking a fight they think they'll lose.

    Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno
    Revis Owen
    Krigmakt Elite
    Safety.
    #57 - 2016-06-13 12:59:25 UTC
    Miss Scordite wrote:
    In other words, an AFK camper makes an impact on the universe while not paying attention to his game client.


    Of course, your OP is completely wrong. But you seem to have energy, and there are MUCH bigger fish to fry. Get on the righteous crusade against AFK miners in highsec!

    Agent of the New Order http://www.minerbumping.com/p/the-code.html If you do not have a current Mining Permit, please contact me for issuance.
    Revis Owen
    Krigmakt Elite
    Safety.
    #58 - 2016-06-13 13:11:23 UTC
    Roenok Baalnorn wrote:
    The argumen is that no one should be able to sit in space for long periods with no risk.


    I agree. So let's get CCP to reverse the nerfs that protect the biggest offenders by far: highsec miners.

    Agent of the New Order http://www.minerbumping.com/p/the-code.html If you do not have a current Mining Permit, please contact me for issuance.
    Mortlake
    Republic Military School
    #59 - 2016-06-13 13:26:19 UTC
    Dracvlad wrote:
    Mortlake wrote:
    Miss Scordite wrote:

  • This is an automation - player's ship remains cloaked and present in a system by itself, without any attention paid to a game client. Just because there is no third-party software doesn't mean this action is not performed automatically;

    • This applies to practically every miner with an active module.


    Rubbish, the miner has to manage roid selection and application of the mining lasar, as well as moving to get the desired roid in range, whereas a cloaky camper just clicks his cloak once and he is golden. But do not take from my reply I want to change the cloak, I do not, cloaks are perfectly fine as is. I do not want to see fuel requirements or the need to re-click every so often, the AFK flag was the only way to do this without causing a cascade of bad decisions for game play.

    Eve has to have no easy log off which is about the right balance, but the negative is AFK cloak camping which can be reduced in affect by a AFK flag.


    So you disagree that most miners are afk or at least not paying attention for the vast amount of time that they are mining? The cloak has absolutely nothing to do with it. What I am saying is that with reference to the OP's quoted point, miners are also not paying attention to the game client. The same can be said of auto piloting.

    Dracvlad wrote:

    but you are talking about low sec and I am talking about sov 0.0 where I cannot check the stations.


    I too rat in opposing alliances systems, especially the ones with stations. All day. With gay abandon.

    Sometimes you hit the bar and sometimes the bar hits you...
    Frostys Virpio
    State War Academy
    Caldari State
    #60 - 2016-06-13 13:27:59 UTC
    Revis Owen wrote:
    Roenok Baalnorn wrote:
    The argumen is that no one should be able to sit in space for long periods with no risk.


    I agree. So let's get CCP to reverse the nerfs that protect the biggest offenders by far: highsec miners.


    Killing a miner in HS is harder for you than killing a guy cloaked in deep space and AFK?