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Ratting in a Pirate BS only gives me 30m/hour?
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Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
#21 - 2016-06-13 01:19:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Sobaan Tali
Igloo Clegane wrote:
Hawke Frost wrote:
Igloo Clegane wrote:
No one is going to post that he is using the wrong damage type for angels? Refit to explosive damage.


Kin is second best damage type to use, the Rattler gets thermal and kin damage bonus so he IS using the right ammo type.


It's not the right damage type if he is getting 10 mil tics.


I think you should take a look at the Rattlesnake's stats again, mate. Even a good old fashion L4 fit Tengu does best running Scourge against Angels, and such a fit only has a 5% per-level Kin buff compaired to the Rattler's 10% per-level buff.

Ergo, his issue of having underwhelming ISK ticks has little to do with his choice of damage type for his missiles. In fact, he's selected Scourge correctly. His issue has to do with overly high expected results.

"Tomahawks?"

"----in' A, right?"

"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."

"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
Morgan Agrivar
Doomheim
#22 - 2016-06-13 01:28:01 UTC
Somal Thunder wrote:
Algarion Getz wrote:
Soel Reit wrote:
- lvl 4 mission in highsec with a good ship --> 80-100 mil/hour

100 mill/h with lvl4 missions? How???


By training security connections and negotiation to 5, at that point you should get between 3000 and 7000 LP for every mission (varies based on other factors too), then you blitz the missions with the appropriate ship.
Lots of warp gates? Use a Nightmare (ab bonus).
Nothing to kill? Stiletto
Mining/cargo mission? Buy loot off market for instant complete.

This way you can be getting ~20000 LP/hour easily, which is worth a minimum of 24 million isk when cashed out (depending on corp, assuming you don't cash out on some crap nobody wants).

Now be a little smart about it and find a station with 2 level 4's, pull 2 missions at a time, double the blitzing. But for every character you add now, you get 2 more simultaneous missions, making it even easier to blitz multiple missions. Of course there are diminishing returns on the count of us being human and having fairly bad reaction times, but I would say around 3 mission runners and you should be making about 75000 LP an hour + some sporadic bounties and the 3% implant from that random mission can that drops from a structure or something. Point is, it's easy money if you do it right -- and if you have multiple characters you can easily "blitz" the missions that need to be cleared, 3 domis with 4x DDA's hardly need a tank.

Oh god, no thanks. I already have a job. I do L4s and shooting MTUs cause I enjoy the laid back time FROM work. How much isk I make per hour is irrelevant...
Igloo Clegane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2016-06-13 04:15:32 UTC
Sobaan Tali wrote:
Igloo Clegane wrote:
Hawke Frost wrote:
Igloo Clegane wrote:
No one is going to post that he is using the wrong damage type for angels? Refit to explosive damage.


Kin is second best damage type to use, the Rattler gets thermal and kin damage bonus so he IS using the right ammo type.


It's not the right damage type if he is getting 10 mil tics.


I think you should take a look at the Rattlesnake's stats again, mate. Even a good old fashion L4 fit Tengu does best running Scourge against Angels, and such a fit only has a 5% per-level Kin buff compaired to the Rattler's 10% per-level buff.

Ergo, his issue of having underwhelming ISK ticks has little to do with his choice of damage type for his missiles. In fact, he's selected Scourge correctly. His issue has to do with overly high expected results.


That's your problem and his problem, you refuse to fit to the npc damage type. Your paper dps means little if you fight against the damage type. 10 mil a tic is about 400 dps, a little less, in angel null. He is claiming 1400 paper dps. Ergo, refit explosive. His issue has nothing to do with expectations. His reality is 10 mil a tic and him thinking he should be getting 5 times that does not change anything. Thinking negatively does not lower your dps in this game.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#24 - 2016-06-13 04:49:27 UTC
Igloo Clegane wrote:
Sobaan Tali wrote:
Igloo Clegane wrote:
Hawke Frost wrote:
Igloo Clegane wrote:
No one is going to post that he is using the wrong damage type for angels? Refit to explosive damage.


Kin is second best damage type to use, the Rattler gets thermal and kin damage bonus so he IS using the right ammo type.


It's not the right damage type if he is getting 10 mil tics.


I think you should take a look at the Rattlesnake's stats again, mate. Even a good old fashion L4 fit Tengu does best running Scourge against Angels, and such a fit only has a 5% per-level Kin buff compaired to the Rattler's 10% per-level buff.

Ergo, his issue of having underwhelming ISK ticks has little to do with his choice of damage type for his missiles. In fact, he's selected Scourge correctly. His issue has to do with overly high expected results.


That's your problem and his problem, you refuse to fit to the npc damage type. Your paper dps means little if you fight against the damage type. 10 mil a tic is about 400 dps, a little less, in angel null. He is claiming 1400 paper dps. Ergo, refit explosive. His issue has nothing to do with expectations. His reality is 10 mil a tic and him thinking he should be getting 5 times that does not change anything. Thinking negatively does not lower your dps in this game.



Sigh

Unbonused explosive applies the exact same as bonused kinetic from Guristas ships (or any kinetic locked ship). As it has been explained to you, that's not his problem.

Have you ever used a Rattlesnake?
Galaxxis
The Regency
The Monarchy
#25 - 2016-06-13 04:55:35 UTC
I made almost 23M in 20 minutes (just bounties) doing Dread Pirate Scarlet in my Rattlesnake. I think you're doing something wrong.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#26 - 2016-06-13 05:02:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Chopper Rollins wrote:
Robert Sawyer wrote:
... I bought some skill injectors and quickly trained up on drones and missile skills, earning me about 1000 DPS using T2 kinetic cruise missiles and Republic Fleet Bouncers. My mates who already own ships of the sort told me that if I do Angel Havens, I should be able to make well over 150 million ISK an hour....


Your friends were liars and i knew this would happen with sp injectors coming into play.
People want endgame content NOW NOW NOW and get huffy when it's a little different in outcome.
Not everybody replaces sp with faction everything, not everybody buys their way to advancement, but the desire to do so has allowed both isk and sp to be removed from the economy.
T2 ammo on rats? Just don't.
inb4 people who make a billion an hour solo afk in hisec.





Well said, especially the point about injectors. The OPs problem could boil down to him not knowing to blap the frigs at range 1st.

I had a friend I used to rat with, he was relatively new. I brought in his alt (a character he bought) in a raven to rat anoms with us since I had an alt using fof missiles already. I noticed that our ticks plummeted when he brought that alt in. So I asked him what his missile skills were...

...They were zero. He'd trained the minimum skills to used cruise missiles and named cruise launchers, but ALL his missile range and application and damage skills (like rapid launch etc) were at zero or 1. Even though that was 5 years ago, I think I still have the bruise on my head from face palming so hard. I'd bet some cash that one of the problems here is that the OP doesn't have his missile and drone application skills trained to at least 3 or 4.

Everything in the game, pvp , pve, whatever, requires you to have some idea of what you are doing before you do it, and understanding skills is a HUGE part of it. New people who use injectors don't learn this stuff like they should. Then they get disappointed when things don't work like they thought they would.
Eternus8lux8lucis
Guardians of the Gate
RAZOR Alliance
#27 - 2016-06-13 05:39:10 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

Everything in the game, pvp , pve, whatever, requires you to have some idea of what you are doing before you do it, and understanding skills is a HUGE part of it. New people who use injectors don't learn this stuff like they should. Then they get disappointed when things don't work like they thought they would.



Id like to quote this right here..... this is basically the game... oh and real life too.

It doesnt matter what you SHOULD be making or doing, if you have zero clue how to do it you wont get it nearly right. Even if you watch someone or they explain to you the numbers if you dont understand the numbers or how to get there you wont.

There is a reason after a certain point in math classes how they GIVE you the answers in the back of the text book. Or how for exams theyll give you the answers AND the formulas. But if you fail to know how to DO the actual math or show how you got there you will FAIL your exam. Life and Eve in this matter are the same.


Knowing the path is far from walking the path. And its immensely different than knowing WHY you walk that path.Big smile

Have you heard anything I've said?

You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?

That's right.

Had to end sometime.
Signal11th
#28 - 2016-06-13 07:46:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Signal11th
Syrias Bizniz wrote:
Rattler, if flown well, should do at least 60m/hr, more reasonably would be 90-100m/hr. Vindicator in the right setup can do up to 150m/hr, but that's very active. Carriers can do ~200m+ /hr, also very active.


I was told about the carrier doing really well last night, my first thought was "what, people rat in carriers now.... and it's normal???"
Obviously I've been away for a while and jumped in my carrier saw these new fangled fighters bays etc , fancy rockets and mwd and thought nice carriers might actually be useful now.
Took it out for a spin and still only managed to get the same sort of ticks that I was getting in my rattle so I'm puzzled by these 200mill an hours mentions..

And yes I have pretty much perfect carrier/drone/fighter skills, how on earth are people doing 200mil an hour in carriers? I can imagine maybe "when I get back into the swing of it" maybe managing 100-120mill an hours but I just can't see 200mill ever happening.

Anyway regardless I still shudder of the thought of using a carrier to rat in so will go back to my good old usual of flying around trying to catch stuff because ratting is dead boring.

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
Sequester Risalo
Significant Others
#29 - 2016-06-13 08:02:23 UTC
If you search in the righr section of the forums you will find dozens of threads regaring this topic.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=484237&find=unread

Usually one person claims to make insane amounts of money doing L4s. Mostly it's done by extremely selective missioning. They only do burner and selected general missions, declining every other mission. Still the math is often skewed by not taking account of travel times, bad LP conversion for everything not SOE, use of a second alt, a much too low sample size etc.

Just do what you enjoy that's much better aiming for the highest ISK/h.
Raging Bull Unchained
Cryonic Origin
Cryonic Origin Alliance
#30 - 2016-06-13 08:09:43 UTC
I run level 4 SOE with bad to mediocre skills with a typhoon and cms. I make around 20-40m (bounty + loot + salvage). LP´s on top (i use those LP only for myself and dont sell things). But i have to admit that it all depends on the missions. If i could chose i´d only do worlds collide.
Hawke Frost
#31 - 2016-06-13 08:17:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Hawke Frost
Igloo Clegane wrote:
Sobaan Tali wrote:
Igloo Clegane wrote:
Hawke Frost wrote:
Igloo Clegane wrote:
No one is going to post that he is using the wrong damage type for angels? Refit to explosive damage.


Kin is second best damage type to use, the Rattler gets thermal and kin damage bonus so he IS using the right ammo type.


It's not the right damage type if he is getting 10 mil tics.


I think you should take a look at the Rattlesnake's stats again, mate. Even a good old fashion L4 fit Tengu does best running Scourge against Angels, and such a fit only has a 5% per-level Kin buff compaired to the Rattler's 10% per-level buff.

Ergo, his issue of having underwhelming ISK ticks has little to do with his choice of damage type for his missiles. In fact, he's selected Scourge correctly. His issue has to do with overly high expected results.


That's your problem and his problem, you refuse to fit to the npc damage type. Your paper dps means little if you fight against the damage type. 10 mil a tic is about 400 dps, a little less, in angel null. He is claiming 1400 paper dps. Ergo, refit explosive. His issue has nothing to do with expectations. His reality is 10 mil a tic and him thinking he should be getting 5 times that does not change anything. Thinking negatively does not lower your dps in this game.


Really?


How clueless are you? He gets Fifty percent extra damage from using kinetic compared to using explosive and as Angels are also weak to kinetic he will do a LOT better by using scourge. Can you do maths?

Him not doing as advertised has NOTHING to do with his choice of missile damage type. It may have to do with his fit, skills or otherwise but NOT his Scourge damage type.


- edit -

Looking at your losses: learn how to EVE.
hedge betts Shiyurida
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#32 - 2016-06-13 08:18:05 UTC
Captain Dingles wrote:
I explore in a 10 mill heron and make like 60 -100 mill an hour. And i get to talk down to the Russians.

Quote:


I was about to say the same. Im only new to exploration and I make 50 Mil an hour.

Pog mo thoin

Gimme Sake
State War Academy
Caldari State
#33 - 2016-06-13 08:35:18 UTC
Never before in the history of internet spaceships, pushing the f keys on a keyboard has had such an halo of competency like in eve online mission running threads.


running a single character 15-40 mil/h depending on mission
running with alts and being selective about missions 80-100 mil/h (150 with loot or salvage etc)
running with scissors 150-300 mil

"Never not blob!" ~ Plato
Krel Morgantine
Alien Supremacy
The Coalition Of Guardians
#34 - 2016-06-13 09:07:29 UTC
I run rock havens in my rattle and usually hang around the 29 mil tick so to do 30 mil an hour , you're doing something wrong somewhere
Yarosara Ruil
#35 - 2016-06-13 09:34:40 UTC
30mil per hour is what I do with my Gila, doing rally points. And my skills are average at best. You're probably doing something very wrong.

If you're fighting Sansha, you ought to use Thermal Missiles with Amarr drones, while tanking for Thermal and EM. That's what I've taught to use at least...
Algarion Getz
Aideron Corp
#36 - 2016-06-13 10:42:39 UTC
Gimme Sake wrote:
Never before in the history of internet spaceships, pushing the f keys on a keyboard has had such an halo of competency like in eve online mission running threads.


running a single character 15-40 mil/h depending on mission
running with alts and being selective about missions 80-100 mil/h (150 with loot or salvage etc)
running with scissors 150-300 mil

Finally some1 with realistic values.

Most EVE players exaggerate a lot when they talk about ISK/h. Some of the conversations i have heard ...
A: "I make 300+ mill/h with Incursions"
B: "I make 600 mill/h in my wormhole"
C: "I make over 1 bill/h ratting in my dread in my wormhole."

Its hilarious. Its like listening to a bragging contest of 8 year olds.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#37 - 2016-06-13 12:08:14 UTC
Signal11th wrote:
Syrias Bizniz wrote:
Rattler, if flown well, should do at least 60m/hr, more reasonably would be 90-100m/hr. Vindicator in the right setup can do up to 150m/hr, but that's very active. Carriers can do ~200m+ /hr, also very active.


I was told about the carrier doing really well last night, my first thought was "what, people rat in carriers now.... and it's normal???"
Obviously I've been away for a while and jumped in my carrier saw these new fangled fighters bays etc , fancy rockets and mwd and thought nice carriers might actually be useful now.
Took it out for a spin and still only managed to get the same sort of ticks that I was getting in my rattle so I'm puzzled by these 200mill an hours mentions..

And yes I have pretty much perfect carrier/drone/fighter skills, how on earth are people doing 200mil an hour in carriers? I can imagine maybe "when I get back into the swing of it" maybe managing 100-120mill an hours but I just can't see 200mill ever happening.

Anyway regardless I still shudder of the thought of using a carrier to rat in so will go back to my good old usual of flying around trying to catch stuff because ratting is dead boring.


You use the special abilities the fighters have to one shot the frigs. That's the big secret lol.

Also, one person's 'boring' is another persons 'relaxing' (or at least as much as you can while watching local/intel and being ready to fight if it comes to it). I rat all the time and don't find it boring.
Signal11th
#38 - 2016-06-13 12:12:33 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Signal11th wrote:
Syrias Bizniz wrote:
Rattler, if flown well, should do at least 60m/hr, more reasonably would be 90-100m/hr. Vindicator in the right setup can do up to 150m/hr, but that's very active. Carriers can do ~200m+ /hr, also very active.


I was told about the carrier doing really well last night, my first thought was "what, people rat in carriers now.... and it's normal???"
Obviously I've been away for a while and jumped in my carrier saw these new fangled fighters bays etc , fancy rockets and mwd and thought nice carriers might actually be useful now.
Took it out for a spin and still only managed to get the same sort of ticks that I was getting in my rattle so I'm puzzled by these 200mill an hours mentions..

And yes I have pretty much perfect carrier/drone/fighter skills, how on earth are people doing 200mil an hour in carriers? I can imagine maybe "when I get back into the swing of it" maybe managing 100-120mill an hours but I just can't see 200mill ever happening.

Anyway regardless I still shudder of the thought of using a carrier to rat in so will go back to my good old usual of flying around trying to catch stuff because ratting is dead boring.


You use the special abilities the fighters have to one shot the frigs. That's the big secret lol.

Also, one person's 'boring' is another persons 'relaxing' (or at least as much as you can while watching local/intel and being ready to fight if it comes to it). I rat all the time and don't find it boring.



I take it you mean the rockets for blapping the frigs?

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#39 - 2016-06-13 12:18:19 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Robert Sawyer wrote:
Allow me to explain.

When I bought my Rattlesnake, I felt like a little kid during Christmas. I bought some skill injectors and quickly trained up on drones and missile skills, earning me about 1000 DPS using T2 kinetic cruise missiles and Republic Fleet Bouncers. My mates who already own ships of the sort told me that if I do Angel Havens, I should be able to make well over 150 million ISK an hour. So I fit my resistances accordingly, load up the drones and MTU and head out.

After an hour of ratting, where I started with 600 million ISK, I looked in my wallet and only found that I have won only 30 million ISK in the course of this hour. This is kind of ridiculous as even mining in a T1 barge can make more. I don't know what I do wrong - I warp in at 70km, drop my sentries and MTU and fire away. Why am I making so little?


The reason you are making so little is because you are doing something incredibly wrong. What is your fit? What are your skills.
Even my FoF cruise missile+ gecko Rattlesnake on a less skilled alt will do 72 mil per hour.

And 150 mil an hour is impossible in a single sub cap unless you are talking Vindicator in Serp/Guristas space and exclusive access to the right anomalies. Even then 150 and hour would be hard to get to.


Edit: re-read it. tech2 kinetic missiles + sentries. precision cruise suck and fury cruise don't apply well to anything smaller than a moon.



Even with NO missiles he should be getting more than 30m/hr

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#40 - 2016-06-13 12:25:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Signal11th wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Signal11th wrote:
Syrias Bizniz wrote:
Rattler, if flown well, should do at least 60m/hr, more reasonably would be 90-100m/hr. Vindicator in the right setup can do up to 150m/hr, but that's very active. Carriers can do ~200m+ /hr, also very active.


I was told about the carrier doing really well last night, my first thought was "what, people rat in carriers now.... and it's normal???"
Obviously I've been away for a while and jumped in my carrier saw these new fangled fighters bays etc , fancy rockets and mwd and thought nice carriers might actually be useful now.
Took it out for a spin and still only managed to get the same sort of ticks that I was getting in my rattle so I'm puzzled by these 200mill an hours mentions..

And yes I have pretty much perfect carrier/drone/fighter skills, how on earth are people doing 200mil an hour in carriers? I can imagine maybe "when I get back into the swing of it" maybe managing 100-120mill an hours but I just can't see 200mill ever happening.

Anyway regardless I still shudder of the thought of using a carrier to rat in so will go back to my good old usual of flying around trying to catch stuff because ratting is dead boring.


You use the special abilities the fighters have to one shot the frigs. That's the big secret lol.

Also, one person's 'boring' is another persons 'relaxing' (or at least as much as you can while watching local/intel and being ready to fight if it comes to it). I rat all the time and don't find it boring.



I take it you mean the rockets for blapping the frigs?


Yea.


Malcanis wrote:


Even with NO missiles he should be getting more than 30m/hr



Not if he also has no DRONE support skills (like the racial drone skills that now affect faction drones and drone interfacing etc) trained lol.

The rattlesnake is extra tricky in this regard for people who don't know the game, it only requires you to be at drones II to launch it's full complement of up to 2 sentry/heavy drones. So new people skill injector their way into the ship with cruise missile (or heavy missle) trained to 1 (and nothing else) and drones trained to 2 (and nothing else) and then don't know why they aren't getting dank ticks lol.

I'll bet his skills has something to do with it. And his fit, and his tactics. TEST is newbro friendly and the alliance bros who rat where I rat know my reputation for killing NPCs en mass lol. I've had to help several "I skill injector-ed into a VNI/Gila/Rattlesnake/Raven, why am I making 5-10 mil ticks?" guys this year already lol.
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