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Capacitor Batteries : Why such stupid fitting requirements?

Author
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#1 - 2012-01-15 02:42:14 UTC
Does anyone use these? Compared to capacitor boosters you really don't get alot of bang for your buck. A small cap booster is 5 pg and 15 cpu to fit. A small cap battery is 10 pg and 50 cpu to fit! Medium cap batteries? A whopping 75/75. Shocked would these get used more if they had a more reasonable fitting requirement?
Lili Lu
#2 - 2012-01-15 03:54:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Lili Lu
I use them on tech I taxi/quick-small hauling frigs for my noob alts. And, I use them on cov ops frigs for my mains. They help get the total cap up so that you can cross big systems in one warp. I think I've used them on other ships, just can't remember. Oh yeah, on a curse or pilgrim if you don't want your cargo filled with cap charges.

Regardless, yes, the fitting reqs are sorta overdone for these. But always have been. I remember a suggestions thread on the old forums years ago where it was mentioned and the dev response, "we'll look into it." Of course nothing was done, so must be "working as intended."Roll
Murtific
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#3 - 2012-01-15 03:57:29 UTC
they also increase the cap recharge time. Shocked

And I wish they weren't so odd to fit. Evil
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#4 - 2012-01-15 04:18:02 UTC
[Osprey, POSprey]
Capacitor Power Relay II
Co-Processor II
Power Diagnostic System I

Large Peroxide I Capacitor Power Cell
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Y-S8 Hydrocarbon I Afterburners

Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter
Large S95a Partial Shield Transporter
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
#5 - 2012-01-15 04:29:36 UTC
Large batteries have some niche roles on cruiser sized ships, they do offer notably more cap/second than a recharger. Not going to go into anything specific wrt fittings since tbh I don;t like cap rechargers either, but:
A maller equipping a recharger gets a 2,9 cap/second bonus
Fitting a large t2 cap battery gives it 5.5 extra cap/second, nearly double the bonus.

Not advocating the use of either (much less on a maller) but you get the idea.
DarkAegix
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-01-15 04:34:53 UTC
Murtific wrote:
they also increase the cap recharge time. Shocked

Nope!
Goose99
#7 - 2012-01-15 04:40:07 UTC
DarkAegix wrote:
Murtific wrote:
they also increase the cap recharge time. Shocked

Nope!


They do. Total cap increased, so it takes longer to fill.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#8 - 2012-01-15 04:42:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Liang Nuren
Goose99 wrote:
DarkAegix wrote:
Murtific wrote:
they also increase the cap recharge time. Shocked

Nope!


They do. Total cap increased, so it takes longer to fill.


No...they don't. Larger capacitor, same time to fill.

-Liang

Ed: To the OP, I used to use them on my nano Ishtar and it worked great. Couldn't squeeze a T2 on though. IMO the fittings really could use an adjustment... but they are still useful on certain ship sizes (cruisers, really)

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#9 - 2012-01-15 04:45:58 UTC
Cap batteries come across as a subpar way to deal with nuets or to help with active tanking. Cap boosters, other then cargo space, are a vastly superior alternative. The fitting requirements should reflect that.
Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
#10 - 2012-01-15 04:49:13 UTC
Goose99 wrote:
DarkAegix wrote:
Murtific wrote:
they also increase the cap recharge time. Shocked

Nope!


They do. Total cap increased, so it takes longer to fill.

Since not everyone may be aware of the fact that he's trolling:

Cap recharge rate is not an actual variable wrt how the game sees how much cap you have. You have one variable for total cap amount, and one for total cap recharge time. So, for example, doubling your total cap amount would double your cap/second recharge.
Tak McMonagle
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2012-01-15 05:11:56 UTC
I've used a large one on my PVE ishtar to good effect. There are benefits for cruiser size hulls if you can fit them.

I'm willing to bet the only reason they aren't used very often is because of their fitting requirements. They probably could be dropped a good 20-25%.
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#12 - 2012-01-15 06:31:42 UTC
Pre-crucible there were two ways to make your Oneiros cap stable. One, cap booster. Great for short engagements with small gangs. Two, a large cap battery (peroxide) so you can run 3 x LRAR's perma. Of course, this one was lulsed out on Battleclinic, much like the ship scanner bhaalgorn was initially, but then again, everyone hated the Oneiros anyway.

Now that the Oneiros has had its slot layout fiddled to increase its tankiness, I'm not sure whether the large cap battery fit is viable anymore.

You can make a capstable armour cane for PVE with a large cap battery.

Generally, cap batteries work best with CCC's, to create a buffer energy tank (think Drake). I have yet to make a PVP fit anything where this is as successful as a cap booster, though, because the passive regen of your capacitor can't get above the neuting capabilities of one medium neut for a cruiser or BC fitting it, and luls as if you'd waste a midslot on a cap battery on a BS.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#13 - 2012-01-15 06:55:06 UTC
Cap batteries work best on kiting fits - that way you never get in range of the heavy neut to start with. Or, you're in for a very short time.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Vachir Khan
Rugged Ruff and Ready
#14 - 2012-01-15 07:16:10 UTC
Just to help clarify, increased cap amount does increase recharge as well. Batteries can be useful on a number of ships like covops (if you don't have the right one), it can be good on a sacrilege if you don't want to or can't rely on cap booster and various other ships. It's not used a whole lot and yeah the fitting is a bit hefty but I don't see a real problem in that.
Templar Dane
Amarrian Vengeance
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#15 - 2012-01-15 07:49:06 UTC
PVE legion loves it's cap battery. You can also just squeeze one onto a recon 5 pilgrim, for places where you can't expect a resupply for a while.
Razor Blue
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2012-01-15 08:03:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Razor Blue
Vachir Khan wrote:
Just to help clarify, increased cap amount does increase recharge as well....



Cap Rech and Power Relays decrease the recharge time
Cap Battery increases the amount of cap regenerated per second
Takeshi Yamato
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2012-01-15 08:41:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Takeshi Yamato
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
Does anyone use these? Compared to capacitor boosters you really don't get alot of bang for your buck. A small cap booster is 5 pg and 15 cpu to fit. A small cap battery is 10 pg and 50 cpu to fit! Medium cap batteries? A whopping 75/75. Shocked would these get used more if they had a more reasonable fitting requirement?


I can see them being used more with lower requirements and a "the cap provided can't be neutralized" mechanic in place.

Other than that the large cap battery does have a niche role. Active tanked PvE cruisers without a plate have powergrid left and a large cap battery gives more cap/sec than a cap recharger.
Vachir Khan
Rugged Ruff and Ready
#18 - 2012-01-15 09:35:24 UTC
Razor Blue wrote:
Vachir Khan wrote:
Just to help clarify, increased cap amount does increase recharge as well....



Cap Rech and Power Relays decrease the recharge time
Cap Battery increases the amount of cap regenerated per second


I said recharge, not recharge time :)
Aamrr
#19 - 2012-01-15 10:20:38 UTC
Templar Dane wrote:
PVE legion loves it's cap battery. You can also just squeeze one onto a recon 5 pilgrim, for places where you can't expect a resupply for a while.

You'd be better off using the augmented capacitor reservoir and using an ancillary current router. Trying to get capacitor out of the powergrid subsystem isn't exactly a good idea.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#20 - 2012-01-15 14:48:29 UTC
The CPU reqs might be a bit… odd, but over all, I don't think it's all that off that cap modules take a lot of fitting space.

Cap is life. Perhaps not in the same direct sense as armour and shield HP, but pretty darn close, and as a result, having a cap buffer mod that requires “pretty darn close” to the same fitting space as those HP buffer modules makes some sense.

And they do see a lot of use, but mainly for various cap-stable fits, which don't particularly work in PvP and which are slowly going out of style for PvE as well. It's no different than any other module really — they do what they do, and this makes them more suited for certain situations. Whether or not people choose to get into those situations will vary with tactics and over time.
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