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Crime & Punishment

 
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Scam limits

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Swiftsoul Tian
Hardcore Smoochies
#1 - 2012-01-15 04:04:07 UTC
Hey all,

just a quick question about scams. Would the following be a legit scam in EVE?

Let's say I claim that I have a comprehensive list of players who bought ISK/items from RMT websites. Now I work thru that list and write everyone an in-game email with the choice either to pay me 500mil (or what ever) or being reported.

Is this still a legit crime in EVE?
Officer Nyota Uhura
#2 - 2012-01-15 04:24:22 UTC
Sounds like out-of-game extortion (not legit) to me, but I might be wrong.
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#3 - 2012-01-15 04:41:48 UTC
As you would be profiting from their (supposed) RMT, it would be against the EULA.


Extortion by itself is not a problem, but when RMT is involved, don't touch it.
Swiftsoul Tian
Hardcore Smoochies
#4 - 2012-01-15 04:47:39 UTC
Officer Nyota Uhura wrote:
Sounds like out-of-game extortion (not legit) to me, but I might be wrong.


Why do you think it's an out-of-game extortion?
Dirk Magnum
Spearhead Endeavors
#5 - 2012-01-15 04:59:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Dirk Magnum
Skimming the EULA, I don't see anything that requires you to report EULA violations. I could have sworn there was such a clause in there but maybe I just skimmed over it. In any event, if all that you're taking is ISK, then I don't think there's a problem. The only exception to this is if you know that the ISK you're taking was earned by a bot, as bots are always in violation of the EULA.

edit:
Of course, when they eventually get banned for RMTing, you may find yourself minus some ISK in your wallet. CCP do check for large transfers of ISK from convicted RMTers, and CCP is under no obligation to prove how you obtained the ISK. Sure, you may have extorted it from the RMTers, but CCP may just assume you bought it and take action against your account. You have no inherent defense against this, since all the ISK is property of CCP anyway under the EULA.

On a moral note, you'd be doing a much greater service to the game if you just reported these people (with evidence) to CCP.

                      "LIVE FAST DIE." - traditional Minmatar ethos [citation needed]
Officer Nyota Uhura
#6 - 2012-01-15 05:02:53 UTC
Swiftsoul Tian wrote:
Officer Nyota Uhura wrote:
Sounds like out-of-game extortion (not legit) to me, but I might be wrong.


Why do you think it's an out-of-game extortion?

The RMT part - for it's information you got out of the game.

Regardless, I urge you to go ahead with it! At least it could make a great story, so please tell us how it went.
Darius III
Interstellar eXodus
The Initiative.
#7 - 2012-01-15 05:22:56 UTC
It isnt for me to discuss legality of play styles, but I really like the way you think. +1

Hmmm
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#8 - 2012-01-15 05:34:15 UTC
I had a similar idea years ago but it's a bannable offense to extort via threat of reporting player actions to CCP.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2012-01-15 05:48:27 UTC
Not only that...

But if CCP catches the RTM they tend to remove all their isk from the game as well. This includes money given to players. So if you recieve 2 bil and you use that isk... you might see yourself with a negative wallet of 2 bill.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk
Swiftsoul Tian
Hardcore Smoochies
#10 - 2012-01-15 06:36:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Swiftsoul Tian
Lady Spank wrote:
I had a similar idea years ago but it's a bannable offense to extort via threat of reporting player actions to CCP.


Really? What's wrong with that? I mean they violated the TOS by buying ISK/items from RMT-websites. It can only be in the interest of CCP to know who violated their EULA. I don't see the offense point in that. An official statement from CCP would be nice.

Well, I'm aware of the possible consequences to lose all the extorted ISK but hey - no crime without risk ^^

My plan is as simple as nasty but still tricky in some aspects. Everyone on that list will get the same standard in-game email without specific details about their deals, additionally I'll write random players (who are hopefully not involved in any RMTs) the same email - just to protect my victims from easy tracking. They'll only get this one and only chance, no 2nd email, no discussion, no further communication - just this single email. And yes, I'll take the flames from the legit players who received an email too but they have nothing to worry about anyway (but I wonder how many of those will pay me too ;P)

If the RMTs pay me they'll be removed from the list without further notice otherwise I'll report them one by one.
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#11 - 2012-01-15 06:52:12 UTC
Extorting with threats to report/petition is the bit you can't do.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Swiftsoul Tian
Hardcore Smoochies
#12 - 2012-01-15 07:01:06 UTC
Lady Spank wrote:
Extorting with threats to report/petition is the bit you can't do.


Ok, so it's only a matter of the right formulation - for example: if I write "pay me or you'll have to face the possible consequences" or "pay me for my silence" instead of "or I'll report your violation" then I'm good? ^^

I already see, it was a good idea to post here ^^
Jack Tronic
borkedLabs
#13 - 2012-01-15 07:38:30 UTC
So you are going to blackmail RMTers to pay you to keep your mouth quiet. You do realize CCP negative wallets the entire RMTed isk trail right?
Swiftsoul Tian
Hardcore Smoochies
#14 - 2012-01-15 08:36:09 UTC
Jack Tronic wrote:
So you are going to blackmail RMTers to pay you to keep your mouth quiet. You do realize CCP negative wallets the entire RMTed isk trail right?



I don't know but I can imagine. I'm not sure what you try to tell me with that question. It's not a crime in real life to buy ISK/items but giving away personal data is one. Really, I'm not going to break any laws for CCP's profit.

The moral aspect of this is out of question - it stinks, it's nasty and it's bad to the bone but hey, it's EVE - in-game thieving, scamming, extortion and ganking is a welcome part of the game!

Who knows what effect this will have - maybe some will never RMT again because they know it's not that secure they first thought it is.
Lemok Sonji
Lethal Devotion
Escalation Theory
#15 - 2012-01-15 08:45:14 UTC
Swiftsoul Tian wrote:
Lady Spank wrote:
Extorting with threats to report/petition is the bit you can't do.


Ok, so it's only a matter of the right formulation - for example: if I write "pay me or you'll have to face the possible consequences" or "pay me for my silence" instead of "or I'll report your violation" then I'm good? ^^

I already see, it was a good idea to post here ^^


It doesn't matter what type of words you are trying to say, in the end you are saying the same thing.
"Pay me or I report".

If you say that (no matter how polished and careful the words you select), you are putting yourself in the position to get a ban.
Swiftsoul Tian
Hardcore Smoochies
#16 - 2012-01-15 09:08:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Swiftsoul Tian
Lemok Sonji wrote:
...If you say that (no matter how polished and careful the words you select), you are putting yourself in the position to get a ban.


You mean CCP protects cheaters from being scammed? Like this:
Cheater: "Wasup dude?"
Swiftsoul: "I know you are cheating. Pay me ISK or I'll report you!"
CCP Interceptor: "We don't tolerate actions that disturbs others gameplay! You are banned!"
Swiftsoul: "Damn! T.T"
Cheater: *whistle*

Would be the first game I know off that handle it that way ! Usually the cheaters get banned ^^

I couldn't find anything about that in the EULA or in the forums. Is there any official CCP statement about that?
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#17 - 2012-01-15 09:55:53 UTC
They aren't 'protecting cheaters' but feel free to believe one persons breach of EULA legitimises yours. You have been warned but fill your boots mate.

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
X ATM092
The Hatchery
RAZOR Alliance
#18 - 2012-01-15 11:13:16 UTC
Just to clarify, having established that these are all identifiable RMTers your first thought was that you wanted a series of player donations from their wallets to yours?
Swiftsoul Tian
Hardcore Smoochies
#19 - 2012-01-15 12:04:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Swiftsoul Tian
X ATM092 wrote:
Just to clarify, having established that these are all identifiable RMTers your first thought was that you wanted a series of player donations from their wallets to yours?


No, my first thought was like this: Shocked

Question answered or was your intension with that question something else?
Lemok Sonji
Lethal Devotion
Escalation Theory
#20 - 2012-01-15 13:30:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Lemok Sonji
Swiftsoul Tian wrote:

You mean CCP protects cheaters from being scammed?


No, that is not what I mean.

I'm saying that if you report them for RMT, they will get a ban if you give proof.
If you try to extort them for reporting them to CCP (legit report or not, doesn't matter, CCP won't check), you will get a ban.

Its that simple.

CCP won't turn into cops, and start investigate.
If one of them runs to CCP and say "This guy says he will report me falsely for RMT or I pay him ISK because he is a douche, and I never RMT and bla bla", CCP will most likely give you a nice ban.

This is the very first term of the TOS:
Quote:
You may not abuse, harass or threaten another player or authorized representative of CCP, including customer service personnel and volunteers. This includes, but is not limited to: petitioning with false information in an attempt to gain from it or have someone else suffer from it; sending excessive e-mails, EVE-mails or petitions; obstructing CCP Employees from doing their jobs; refusal to follow the instructions of a CCP Employee; or implying favoritism by a CCP Employee.



If you insist, go for it.
Come back to use with results Big smile
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