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Allow Docking of Dreads + Carriers at Astrahus'
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The Receptionist
Novartis Corporation.
#1 - 2016-06-10 16:48:30 UTC
I know this isn't a huge issue at the moment, but at the moment you can store capitals in a POS. For w-space this is a huge pain, because when POSes are phased out, you will no longer be able to store capitals unless you invest 7-8b in your wormhole. This is also a pain in the ass elsewhere, albeit to a lesser extent - so it would be nice if capitals could be stored in an Astrahus.

If the Astrahus is meant to replace the POS, at 3x the cost, it should preserve the functionality of a POS (which CAN store capitals).

HOWEVER, Supercapitals should of course remain restricted to the Fortizar.

At 20b each (even if they come down to 7-8bil each after like a year of blueprint research finally happens to get 10/20 BPCs onto the market), it will be punishing and prohibitively expensive to force everyone to buy a Fortizar in order to dock dreads and carriers.
darkneko
Come And Get Your Love
#2 - 2016-06-10 17:28:08 UTC
Would be nice to see carriers and dreadsable to but the rorqual which can't even defend itself should definitely be allowed to dock in them.
The Receptionist
Novartis Corporation.
#3 - 2016-06-10 17:38:14 UTC  |  Edited by: The Receptionist
darkneko wrote:
Would be nice to see carriers and dreadsable to but the rorqual which can't even defend itself should definitely be allowed to dock in them.


^^ +1 to this, this is something I missed that should definitely be allowed to dock in Astrahus'. Although CCP plans to remove off-grid boosting with rorqs I think they should still be storable...
Porus Kurvora
Phoenix Enterprise Inc
From The Ashes.
#4 - 2016-06-10 18:54:16 UTC
-100

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Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2016-06-10 20:23:37 UTC
If you can afford multiple capitals, you should be able to afford a Fortizar.

Sorry to say, but suck it up.
darkneko
Come And Get Your Love
#6 - 2016-06-10 21:12:42 UTC
Celthric Kanerian wrote:
If you can afford multiple capitals, you should be able to afford a Fortizar.

Sorry to say, but suck it up.


a Fortizar can cost upwards of 30 billion and is going to stay wherever you put it. compare that to an 200 million investment of a small tower and some def which can be taken down in 15 mins...
i would say this is not a crazy request to be able to dock some capitals in an astrahus which you have to spend at least 3 bill on and still cant move, since the offline time is 7 days and can easily be stolen by some guys with a half decent plan or if you simply cant log on in 7 days. (because who can be online with 100% certainty in 7 days)
Lugh Crow-Slave
#7 - 2016-06-10 21:56:14 UTC
except there will be other cheaper structures to dock things in well before POS are removed. Remember Citadels are the most expensive of the new structures

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
#8 - 2016-06-11 01:40:27 UTC
darkneko wrote:
Celthric Kanerian wrote:
If you can afford multiple capitals, you should be able to afford a Fortizar.

Sorry to say, but suck it up.


a Fortizar can cost upwards of 30 billion and is going to stay wherever you put it. compare that to an 200 million investment of a small tower and some def which can be taken down in 15 mins...
i would say this is not a crazy request to be able to dock some capitals in an astrahus which you have to spend at least 3 bill on and still cant move, since the offline time is 7 days and can easily be stolen by some guys with a half decent plan or if you simply cant log on in 7 days. (because who can be online with 100% certainty in 7 days)


Your numbers for the cost are way off.

Current Market price in Jita for a Fortizar: 17 Billion ISK (10 day moving average has it dropping closer and closer to the manufacturing cost of roughly 11 Billion not including the cost for the BPO or a decent BPC). The BPC is roughly 2 billion isk.

If you have well researched Structure component BPCs, you can manufacture your own Fortizar for 15-16 Billion ISK. Well under 30 Billion.

In terms of anchoring: the 24 hour period is annoying for all the Citadels but the 7 day un-anchoring period is the most painful. But this is irrelevant to the user's case: Astrahus should allow all but Super Caps to dock. I would like it if they could, but it would also mean that CCP would have to adjust the appearance of the Astrahus to accommodate tall Capitals like the Nag and FAXes. It also means that you have less incentive to invest in a Fortizar.

If you plan on living out of the wormhole for longer than a few months and plan to run capitals: get a Fortizar. They are not that expensive.

Now, what I would love to see CCP address is this: what kind of temporary structure will replace the POS? Since a POS can be put up and taken down pretty quickly, what replacement do they have planned to fill that gap to allow people making 'day trips' to have something that can be set up and taken down quickly and offer some defense of their assets while deployed.

Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.

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The Receptionist
Novartis Corporation.
#9 - 2016-06-11 04:06:04 UTC  |  Edited by: The Receptionist
Celthric Kanerian wrote:
If you can afford multiple capitals, you should be able to afford a Fortizar.

Sorry to say, but suck it up.


This makes absolutely no sense. I can afford a 1.3bil Chimera therefore I can afford a Fortizar for 20bil? You suck it up. The inability to dock carriers in Astrahus' is irritating and a massive nerf to small groups wanting to enter and hold low-class wormhole space.

Also, even if they are currently 15b and dropping to 11b - that is STILL massively expensive for small groups who want at most 1-2 capitals just to defend their space. No, it's not worth the price for a Fortizar. The astrahus is NOT an acceptable alternative to POSes. for w-space living and a Fortizar is a ridiculous investment for a low-class hole.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#10 - 2016-06-11 04:28:43 UTC
.... it's almost like it's not meant to replace the pos on it's own

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#11 - 2016-06-11 05:25:05 UTC
The Receptionist wrote:
Celthric Kanerian wrote:
If you can afford multiple capitals, you should be able to afford a Fortizar.

Sorry to say, but suck it up.


This makes absolutely no sense. I can afford a 1.3bil Chimera therefore I can afford a Fortizar for 20bil? You suck it up. The inability to dock carriers in Astrahus' is irritating and a massive nerf to small groups wanting to enter and hold low-class wormhole space.

Also, even if they are currently 15b and dropping to 11b - that is STILL massively expensive for small groups who want at most 1-2 capitals just to defend their space. No, it's not worth the price for a Fortizar. The astrahus is NOT an acceptable alternative to POSes. for w-space living and a Fortizar is a ridiculous investment for a low-class hole.



Let me break this down for you. If you can raise 1.3 bil for a chimera, then you can raise 20 bil for a fortizar. You really can. It will (hold on.... doing math) take 15.3846153 times more time and effort (assuming the same rates of each) to come up w/ the fortizar.

I think the disconnect for a lot of millennials is the disparity between NOW and TIME + EFFORT when acquiring stuff. Trust me on this, if you apply time, teamwork and effort, then you can get a fortizar. Roll up your sleeves and get to work. You'll get something that is probably foreign to you (but totally free!) when you get your fortizar online. You will get a sense of accomplishment - trust me it's better than a participation trophy or that sprinkle covered ice cream you got for losing that home game (sport of your choosing).

TL/DR: eve doesn't hand out participation trophies, get to work and earn what you need. (stealing it is also acceptable in eve)
Sitting Bull Lakota
Poppins and Company
#12 - 2016-06-11 05:26:28 UTC
The Receptionist wrote:
HOWEVER, Supercapitals should of course remain restricted to the Fortizar*.

Keepstar*
Also, 2 dreads is a 7-8b investment.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#13 - 2016-06-11 05:31:02 UTC
Sitting Bull Lakota wrote:
The Receptionist wrote:
HOWEVER, Supercapitals should of course remain restricted to the Fortizar*.

Keepstar*
Also, 2 dreads is a 7-8b investment.



Actually, most wh fits for a single cap of any flavor come to around 7-8 bil. The whiney OP was only quoting the hull price and ignoring rigs and fittings to further skew the argument in their favor. I call it millennial math.
Wachutu
Bohemian Veterans
Pandemic Horde
#14 - 2016-06-11 08:54:45 UTC
Yep, and access to dock sup-cap ship to mobile depo -_-
-1
Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2016-06-12 10:38:27 UTC
The Receptionist wrote:
Celthric Kanerian wrote:
If you can afford multiple capitals, you should be able to afford a Fortizar.

Sorry to say, but suck it up.


This makes absolutely no sense. I can afford a 1.3bil Chimera therefore I can afford a Fortizar for 20bil? You suck it up. The inability to dock carriers in Astrahus' is irritating and a massive nerf to small groups wanting to enter and hold low-class wormhole space.

Also, even if they are currently 15b and dropping to 11b - that is STILL massively expensive for small groups who want at most 1-2 capitals just to defend their space. No, it's not worth the price for a Fortizar. The astrahus is NOT an acceptable alternative to POSes. for w-space living and a Fortizar is a ridiculous investment for a low-class hole.


It makes perfect sense, and you stated the answer yourself. Your lone Chimera costs 1.7 Billion alone, and you said you have multiple capital ships, so that puts you in the price range of a Fortizar citadel, or atleast half way. Shouldn't be much effort from you and your alliance to cough up the extra dough.

Still not supported.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#16 - 2016-06-12 15:10:46 UTC
Before I start I do not care one way or the other refering to the OP request, I simply have some thoughts on other posts.

Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
except there will be other cheaper structures to dock things in well before POS are removed. Remember Citadels are the most expensive of the new structures

If you cannot dock a cap ship in an Astrahus what makes you think CCP will allow cap ships to dock at structures that are smaller and even less expensive?

Serendipity Lost wrote:
The whiney OP was only quoting the hull price and ignoring rigs and fittings to further skew the argument in their favor. I call it millennial math.

And the rest of you are only quoting the cost of the hull to try and explain why the OP can afford one. This seems to be a double standard, they are not allowed to use the hull costs only to support their point, but you are allowed to use the hull price only to support yours.

I have not given these structures more than a casual look because they are out of my price range and to be honest I have no use for one at the moment. Given that and the 11-16 bil price range quoted here for the fortizar hull only and looking at the costs for the various modules that could be fit into it the OP's assessment of 20 bil seems to be in the general range for one that is fully fit.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#17 - 2016-06-12 16:52:06 UTC
Makes sense to me and I'm not a millenial.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

darkneko
Come And Get Your Love
#18 - 2016-06-13 09:05:28 UTC
It's not just about the cost but the mobility of citadels sure it's not bad cost wise if you can afford capitals . The problem is it is just stuck there, no more nomadic living. Hell if they just made it so only the owner could scoop and it still had its invulnerability timers during and after after the 7day takedown that would even be a good compromise. And we all know more structures are on the way but they still probably won't offer the same mobility or they will have less docking capabilities.