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Mutli-Use Analyzers Feedback Thread

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Skadoos
Doomheim
#141 - 2016-06-06 08:06:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Skadoos
Nana Skalski wrote:
Triple digit M ISK? Where? My advice is let the markets cool down a bit if you see that kind of reaction after initial introduction, then you will see what is their true value.


The Zeugma blueprint requires 1000 High-Tech Data Chips for example, a single data site drops 1-2. If a Data Chip is worth much less than say 100k then it doesn't really contribute to making data sites worth running. If it's worth more than say 100k, then the price of a Zeugma analyzer is going to be at least 100mil just from this one component.

Buying all materials for a single Zeugma analyzer at current Jita sell prices costs around 330mil. As per EVE Central there are currently 50k units of Data Chips for sale in all regions, meaning we can collectively produce 50 modules before the market runs out of Data Chips completely. CCP would have to reduce the material requirements by an order of magnitude before it would make sense to fit one of these analyzers to a frigate.
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#142 - 2016-06-06 09:07:13 UTC
Skadoos wrote:
The Zeugma blueprint requires 1000 High-Tech Data Chips for example, a single data site drops 1-2. If a Data Chip is worth much less than say 100k then it doesn't really contribute to making data sites worth running. If it's worth more than say 100k, then the price of a Zeugma analyzer is going to be at least 100mil just from this one component.

Buying all materials for a single Zeugma analyzer at current Jita sell prices costs around 330mil. As per EVE Central there are currently 50k units of Data Chips for sale in all regions, meaning we can collectively produce 50 modules before the market runs out of Data Chips completely. CCP would have to reduce the material requiremens by an order of magnitude before it would make sense to fit one of these analyzers to a frigate.

The way I see it, they want to drain market from high-tech items, then adjust amounts needed to produce them. High-tech items are rare now, usually 1 item per site. It would be good boost for data sites value.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#143 - 2016-06-06 09:08:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
Skadoos wrote:
Nana Skalski wrote:
Triple digit M ISK? Where? My advice is let the markets cool down a bit if you see that kind of reaction after initial introduction, then you will see what is their true value.


The Zeugma blueprint requires 1000 High-Tech Data Chips for example, a single data site drops 1-2. If a Data Chip is worth much less than say 100k then it doesn't really contribute to making data sites worth running. If it's worth more than say 100k, then the price of a Zeugma analyzer is going to be at least 100mil just from this one component.

Buying all materials for a single Zeugma analyzer at current Jita sell prices costs around 330mil. As per EVE Central there are currently 50k units of Data Chips for sale in all regions, meaning we can collectively produce 50 modules before the market runs out of Data Chips completely. CCP would have to reduce the material requirements by an order of magnitude before it would make sense to fit one of these analyzers to a frigate.

Or make data sites drop more of them.
One more thing is how popular they will be and how much of those Data Chips is generated, but they dont end on market because they are unpopular. Some people may just collect them and not sell, can trash them or dont loot them or even jettison them as trash not worth much. This thread gives some insight into this issue.

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Skadoos
Doomheim
#144 - 2016-06-06 10:08:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Skadoos
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
The way I see it, they want to drain market from high-tech items, then adjust amounts needed to produce them. High-tech items are rare now, usually 1 item per site. It would be good boost for data sites value.


It would increase the lower bound on the value of data sites a bit but there are lots of other factors that make data sites worthless in general. Red cans in null data sites are regularly empty of loot. Encryption and rigging skill books are worthless, same as 10m³ stacks of parts. Faction POS towers and modules are obsolete. Obscure faction materials such as Trigger Mechanisms or the rare item that does have value can only be sold for a reasonable price by babysitting a sell order or contract in Jita for weeks, i.e. by means that are orthogonal to exploration.

There need to be reasons for running data sites other than collecting materials to build a module for running data sites, otherwise it's a wheel in the machine that's not connected to anything.
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#145 - 2016-06-08 18:24:35 UTC
I've finally equip zeugma on my tengu - 155 cohrence while T2 data - 120c, T2 archeo - 115c.
Bug or intentional?

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#146 - 2016-06-08 18:37:43 UTC
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
I've finally equip zeugma on my tengu - 155 cohrence while T2 data - 120c, T2 archeo - 115c.
Bug or intentional?



Are your skills for hacking and archaeology the same?

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#147 - 2016-06-08 18:44:55 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:

Are your skills for hacking and archaeology the same?

yes but I have better implants for data hacking.

I now why zeugma is so strong. Base coherence is 40. 40 + 50 (hacking skill) + 50 (archeology skill) + 5 for HC-905 + 10 for both data and relics from prospector EY-1005 = 155 coherence.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville
Darkwing Fiftytwo
Hookers N' Blow
#148 - 2016-06-10 16:45:09 UTC
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:

Are your skills for hacking and archaeology the same?

yes but I have better implants for data hacking.

I now why zeugma is so strong. Base coherence is 40. 40 + 50 (hacking skill) + 50 (archeology skill) + 5 for HC-905 + 10 for both data and relics from prospector EY-1005 = 155 coherence.


So it looks like the Zeugma is in fact better than T2? Because you are getting a bump from both skills while only hacking one type of can. Thats either a bug or intentional but either way they should leave it so that the Zeugma now has a lot of value right because it is in fact better than a T2
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#149 - 2016-06-10 20:04:23 UTC
Darkwing Fiftytwo wrote:
So it looks like the Zeugma is in fact better than T2? Because you are getting a bump from both skills while only hacking one type of can. Thats either a bug or intentional but either way they should leave it so that the Zeugma now has a lot of value right because it is in fact better than a T2

I have no idea what's behind this. RedDawn is silent lately. It's not what we have in OP.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville
Skyler Hawk
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#150 - 2016-06-11 11:29:46 UTC
Darkwing Fiftytwo wrote:
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:

Are your skills for hacking and archaeology the same?

yes but I have better implants for data hacking.

I now why zeugma is so strong. Base coherence is 40. 40 + 50 (hacking skill) + 50 (archeology skill) + 5 for HC-905 + 10 for both data and relics from prospector EY-1005 = 155 coherence.


So it looks like the Zeugma is in fact better than T2? Because you are getting a bump from both skills while only hacking one type of can. Thats either a bug or intentional but either way they should leave it so that the Zeugma now has a lot of value right because it is in fact better than a T2

Given that it costs around 300m to build a zeugma at current prices, it kind of needs to be substantially better than T2 if it's to be used at all.
Sapheni
Black Moon Mining
#151 - 2016-06-12 11:38:35 UTC
Do Emission Scope Sharpener rigs affect these modules?

Technically the modules are classed as data analysers so rigs for relic analysers shouldn't affect them... but thought I'd ask.
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#152 - 2016-06-12 13:46:03 UTC
Sapheni wrote:
Do Emission Scope Sharpener rigs affect these modules?

Both versions T1 and T2 hacking rigs works with them and stack with each other.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville
Sapheni
Black Moon Mining
#153 - 2016-06-12 18:18:17 UTC
Interesting. Thanks.
Tempted to get one now, although they're still a bit pricey. If only I hadn't left all those High Tech items behind in the past...
Darkwing Fiftytwo
Hookers N' Blow
#154 - 2016-07-05 12:41:42 UTC
If there aren't plans for "High-Tech Small Arms" usage can CCP convert them into the other three High-Tech items, maybe you get 0.333 of each per high-tech small arms, help with the supply of those other 3 and create a bit of value for those iteams
mana waikato
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#155 - 2016-07-22 12:37:05 UTC
Great idea ... but for a unit that doesn't do the job as well as a stand alone product with an insane price attached .. of course an extra mid slot is a very handy thing indeed but at that price i will stick with my mobile depot and the variables that makes available for me .. or simple use a purpose fit T2 .. that price is insane ... when i have accumulated enough resources i will simply build my runs and hopefully someone unlike me will be willing to pay an insane price for this product and that extra mid slot Big smile ... which is a very handy thing indeed Big smile pre orders are accepted please send isk to 'i love my extra slot c/o- isk means nothing to me 56430
Darkwing Fiftytwo
Hookers N' Blow
#156 - 2016-07-22 16:52:46 UTC
mana waikato wrote:
Great idea ... but for a unit that doesn't do the job as well as a stand alone product with an insane price attached .. of course an extra mid slot is a very handy thing indeed but at that price i will stick with my mobile depot and the variables that makes available for me .. or simple use a purpose fit T2 .. that price is insane ... when i have accumulated enough resources i will simply build my runs and hopefully someone unlike me will be willing to pay an insane price for this product and that extra mid slot Big smile ... which is a very handy thing indeed Big smile pre orders are accepted please send isk to 'i love my extra slot c/o- isk means nothing to me 56430


I think someone figured out that they are better than T2, because you get bonus' for both skills into the one module. (even if you are just hacking say data sites, the relic bonus' to the module still apply or whatever"
Nya Kittenheart
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#157 - 2016-07-23 20:28:58 UTC
Too expensive atm as an hybrid between two modulesto find a real usage,you cant really avoid losing a ship from time to time to happy go lucky exploration tripsRoll.
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#158 - 2016-07-24 15:38:36 UTC
Who's brilliant idea was it to make the blueprint for a Zeugma worthless and the built a loss?

I'm my own NPC alt.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#159 - 2016-07-24 17:38:16 UTC
Tipa Riot wrote:
Who's brilliant idea was it to make the blueprint for a Zeugma worthless and the built a loss?



Uh, The players who decide it's not worth buying at a price which would make it buildable at a profit?

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#160 - 2016-07-24 18:01:18 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Tipa Riot wrote:
Who's brilliant idea was it to make the blueprint for a Zeugma worthless and the built a loss?



Uh, The players who decide it's not worth buying at a price which would make it buildable at a profit?

This is not the full truth in this case, because CCP set a very high (too high) base price by defining the material requirements. Hence the price is artificially floored and disconnected from the rarity of the find (of the BPC), with the result that the BPC is basically worthless. Similar thing is happening with the Serpentis capitals. Other expensive stuff like the Mordus ship line has (purposefully I suppose) trivial production costs, and the price is mainly defined by supply and demand of the BPC (the actual rare find).

I'm my own NPC alt.