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Has there been a change in Combat site/Escalation drops?
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Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#21 - 2016-06-05 02:54:28 UTC
Bumblefck wrote:
Shiloh Templeton wrote:
CCP will never say, and many people will give the obligatory Random is Random response, but after tracking all my results for the year I'm convinced CCP rebalances the loot tables periodically.







RNG is R


As I said in another thread, it's not. It is a programmed algorithm with totally deterministic results. It is supposed to look random. But if CCP somehow made a programming error, then we could get very non-random results.

Example: Once no Arkonor was spawning. Some said "RNG is R". But what had happened was CCP mis-spelled "Arkonor" in the roid generation table.

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Davian Thule Pirkibo
Caldari 1
Caldari Alliance
#22 - 2016-06-05 12:47:41 UTC
Pandora Carrollon wrote:
Monstah Khaos wrote:
Since last weekend we have now run 77 combat sites (0.7-0.5) .

Of those 77 we saw 4 Dread spawns with faction ammo only
Of those 77 we got approximately 6 escalations 5x 4/10 sites and 1x 5/10 site in both low and high sec

All of the 4/10 sites had less than 2mil in loot for both rooms. The faction drops were ammo only.
The 5/10 site had 15mil in total loot with the cheapest pithi type c resist. We didn't even get a Tier drop.

We have been running the crap out of these for a while and honestly were raking in about 400-500mil per day off the loot and salvage + bounties. Suddenly this week has seen a waste of time...

I know it is a numbers thing on odds for drops etc. but I would say I won't be going to Vegas any time soon with this kind of luck!!

Any one else notice a crazy drop or did I miss a change in a patch somewhere?

As of right now it is worthless doing the escalations in low sec as the drop value is nowhere near worth losing a halfway fit ship.

??


I was farming for escalations a couple of weeks ago, many times in a row and got nothing. I chalked it up to bad luck. In fact, the spawn rate of HiSec sites is severely depressed or people are knocking them out enmasse. I think I saw a dev blog on spawn adjustments, maybe on drop rate as well.

HiSec is already ISK resource poor, so if they are cutting down revenues even further, I guess the intent is to push everyone out to Lo/Null or make more money of the HiSec players since it's harder to PLEX there. If that's the case, I don't get it because it means that even CCP doesn't understand why players stay in HiSec. They nerf it too much and they risk those players just not playing any more. Ah well, if it is a nerf, then we'll have to deal with it.





Why do people stay in highsec? This game is risk reward and you are meant to eventually ascend to pursue riskier things. This is not a care bear theme park. Ccp has finnaly made it so that for most types of income nullsec is worth it. The only thing now that is still to be done is nerfing/getting rid of highsec incursions.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#23 - 2016-06-05 13:13:56 UTC
The entire "risk vs reward" argument has always bothered me. When someone cries over a gank loss, the gankers like to say " Its just meaningless space pixels and imaginary space money". OK, Lets take them at their word. Its all meaningless space pixels and imaginary space money. Losing or gaining something that is meaningless is neither risk or reward.

Where IS the risk and reward in Eve? It has to be in the real world. The risk is $15 a month you spend on the subscription (or the time you spend to grind for a PLEX). The reward is having fun. Given that, the reward for play in high sec should be the same as any other part of space.

CCP: you should not be making changes to any part of space that makes it less fun for those players who prefer to play there.

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Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#24 - 2016-06-05 18:53:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Copy and paste is a wonderful thing so I don't have to re-type this. But this very same discussion is going on in missions and complexes lol.
Quote:

March rabbit wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Probably a bad time to mention that last night...

What is funny is that almost every time someone mentions bad drop you 'recently' got good one Lol


The was just this week, What's even funnier is that last week I had the single most improbable situation I've yet had in EVE,, more improbable than the 2 officer spawns I've had so far (one 4 years ago, the other 2 years ago).

Running havens, the 1st one spawned a DG battleship that dropped a DG web. The very next haven spawned a BG battleship that dropped a DG drone damage amp and THEN escalated to a 10/10 MAZE. And the MAZE dropped a Rattlesnake BPC. The odds of that chain of events must be astronomically low, and yet it happened.

But what also happened was the 34 havens in a row I've done in the same space in last month the spawned noting but couple of guristas dread and a few 'ammo and tag' DG battleships. I've been doing this long enough to understand that that just happens, and that there is no big CCP conspiracy at play. It's a simple random number generator at work.


The real funny thing is that I also just had this same discussion with my wife and our friends in real life. There are no real casinos in my state so everyone just hops the border to either Louisiana or Oklahoma, we go to Winstar in Thackervil , OK once or twice a month as a fun getaway (not major gamblers, we screw around on the penny machines, play a little poker, eat at the buffet and come home lol). My wife and I have gotten to know a bunch of 'regulars' from our area that go up there.

And you hear the same thing in that casino for the last 5 years that I've heard n this forum for 9 years now. "My system always delivers, the 'powers that be' must not like me winning so much". "Something must have changed, that machine always pays out for me, but not this time". "My luck can't be this bad, there HAS to be something up, these results are contrary to the law of averages!". I heard all three of those utterances last week.

And just like in the discussion I quoted above with March Rabbit it seems like every time I hear something like that, I win something (and no I don't think that it more than just coincidence lol). I said screw it and played on one of those hideous 5 dollar machines they have on a fluke and won Three thousand dollars 5 minutes after one of my casino buddies claimed something was wrong lol.

I found him later at one of the bars and said "this is probably a bad time to mention this......" Twisted

The human brain wants to quantify everything and tends to reject chance, we want to feel like we can have some control over things. IMO life gets a whole lot more comfortable and easy to live in when you realize that that is not always true...
Violet Hurst
Fedaya Recon
#25 - 2016-06-05 21:31:16 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Bumblefck wrote:
Shiloh Templeton wrote:
CCP will never say, and many people will give the obligatory Random is Random response, but after tracking all my results for the year I'm convinced CCP rebalances the loot tables periodically.







RNG is R


As I said in another thread, it's not. It is a programmed algorithm with totally deterministic results. It is supposed to look random. But if CCP somehow made a programming error, then we could get very non-random results.

Example: Once no Arkonor was spawning. Some said "RNG is R". But what had happened was CCP mis-spelled "Arkonor" in the roid generation table.


NPC loot tables with their drop chances are the last thing any game developer will ever publish. Even if everything else is made transparent, they remain the last set screw if the developers need to change things without causing an overreaction by the playerbase. Randomness is also something that can not be proven, so your argument is pretty much on the safe side there.

When you play the determinism of common random number generating functions against the forced pattern recognition of the human brain that Jenn aSide mentioned though, you are comparing things that differ in scale. Tremendously.
There are also "true" random number generators available, e.g. from https://www.random.org/. And for all we know CCP might be using one of those.

Let me close by saying that I'm generally a huge fan of determinism. Things we currently regard as random might after all become computable at some point. But for one at the moment e.g. 96% of all gravity in the universe is unaccounted for, so there's still a lot of room for randomness. (This sentence is just meant to illustrate the scale.)
And even if we were in theory able to compute the universe, we'd need a memory cell to store the state of each and every particle, for which there just aren't enough particles avilable. (The machine would have to be bigger than the universe itself. This is contradictory.)
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#26 - 2016-06-06 06:11:46 UTC
Henry Plantgenet
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2016-06-06 09:28:47 UTC
there was an escalation buff in 2014.
Probably CCP realising that certain escalations became a bit too powerful and tweaked it down again (still get the escalation but crap loot! :D)

https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/all-that-is-gold-does-not-glitter-data-sites-expeditions-and-more/

how time flies...
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#28 - 2016-06-06 09:34:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
Henry Plantgenet wrote:
there was an escalation buff in 2014.
Probably CCP realising that certain escalations became a bit too powerful and tweaked it down again (still get the escalation but crap loot! :D)

https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/all-that-is-gold-does-not-glitter-data-sites-expeditions-and-more/

how time flies...

I have been running escalations yesterday, Loot was good. Give your lootfairy some occasion to show her skills and maybe run more of them, dank escalations? But then again, results of her job are not guaranteed, remember.

ᴇᴠᴇʀʏ ᴘᴀʀᴛ ᴏғ ᴀ ɢᴀᴍᴇ ʜᴇʟᴘs ᴛᴏ ᴛᴇʟʟ ᴀ sᴛᴏʀʏ 📕

ᴡʜᴇʀᴇ ɪs ᴀɴɢʀʏ ᴄᴏɴᴄᴏʀᴅ ɢᴜʏ ᴡʜᴇɴ ʏᴏᴜ ɴᴇᴇᴅ ʜɪᴍ

ᴏsᴘʀᴇʏ 🚀

≡⋁≡ ♥
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#29 - 2016-06-06 09:38:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
Violet Hurst wrote:
(The machine would have to be bigger than the universe itself. This is contradictory.)



What about fractals? They are small, and can generate on flow, infinitely.
Not much memory is needed, but you need something to display the results of inner workings.
Take for example original Elite by Braben.
Of course the computer was machine. And if you see it as universe, it was different, not really bigger, for example the things inside game could have had sizes that dont corresponded to what you had on the monitor.

ᴇᴠᴇʀʏ ᴘᴀʀᴛ ᴏғ ᴀ ɢᴀᴍᴇ ʜᴇʟᴘs ᴛᴏ ᴛᴇʟʟ ᴀ sᴛᴏʀʏ 📕

ᴡʜᴇʀᴇ ɪs ᴀɴɢʀʏ ᴄᴏɴᴄᴏʀᴅ ɢᴜʏ ᴡʜᴇɴ ʏᴏᴜ ɴᴇᴇᴅ ʜɪᴍ

ᴏsᴘʀᴇʏ 🚀

≡⋁≡ ♥
Staine Codekiller
State War Academy
Caldari State
#30 - 2016-06-06 09:50:22 UTC
Just ran a string of combat sites with absolute crap. Friend jumped over to Gallente space and made 700,000,000 in 4 hours with a bunch of Gila BP and Mid-Grade Crystals. I got more Dread light missiles than I know what to do with. Just did 2 greater sleeper sites complete for a whopping 5 million ISK.

The odds are always against you. I can't wait for my buddy to get back to I can gank him.
Violet Hurst
Fedaya Recon
#31 - 2016-06-06 12:29:46 UTC
Nana Skalski wrote:
Not much memory is needed, but you need something to display the results of inner workings.

The latter is the weak spot. Of course there are e.g. lossless compression algorithms for pictures, but if you want to observe them, they have to be decompressed and each pixel has to be rendered, so their state(colour) has to be saved, on your monitor.

Another example: You can build a computer in Minecraft. You could probably also build a computer in Minecraft that runs Minecraft. However if that computer was to run the same instance of Minecraft it was in, it would have to compute a computer that runs Minecraft with a computer in it that runs Minecraft with a computer in it... You'd get to infinite levels of recursion. So moving even a single block would have to be propagated infinite times.
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#32 - 2016-06-06 13:23:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
Violet Hurst wrote:
Nana Skalski wrote:
Not much memory is needed, but you need something to display the results of inner workings.

The latter is the weak spot. Of course there are e.g. lossless compression algorithms for pictures, but if you want to observe them, they have to be decompressed and each pixel has to be rendered, so their state(colour) has to be saved, on your monitor.

Another example: You can build a computer in Minecraft. You could probably also build a computer in Minecraft that runs Minecraft. However if that computer was to run the same instance of Minecraft it was in, it would have to compute a computer that runs Minecraft with a computer in it that runs Minecraft with a computer in it... You'd get to infinite levels of recursion. So moving even a single block would have to be propagated infinite times.

Isnt everything propagated in such way when you see it in the details?

ᴇᴠᴇʀʏ ᴘᴀʀᴛ ᴏғ ᴀ ɢᴀᴍᴇ ʜᴇʟᴘs ᴛᴏ ᴛᴇʟʟ ᴀ sᴛᴏʀʏ 📕

ᴡʜᴇʀᴇ ɪs ᴀɴɢʀʏ ᴄᴏɴᴄᴏʀᴅ ɢᴜʏ ᴡʜᴇɴ ʏᴏᴜ ɴᴇᴇᴅ ʜɪᴍ

ᴏsᴘʀᴇʏ 🚀

≡⋁≡ ♥
Pandora Carrollon
Provi Rapid Response
#33 - 2016-06-06 14:33:22 UTC
Well, I did some time on Saturday and Sunday and looked to see what I could come up with (NPC combat wise) and if it was the same as before.

Not many escalations, in fact, none, but the regular sites (Refuge, etc.) were dropping higher quality loot even if the sites were rarer. Also, some of the mining spawn sites were spawning nicer stuff you'd only see in LoSec. So, either CCP fixed an oops (perhaps an 'over' adjustment of HiSec) with the latest patch, or I just had a really bad run of luck for a while there. I don't know why the escalations have dropped to ziltch. I've run about 15 sites and no escalations. I normally would have had 3 in that period.

I don't think HiSec should be easy money, it should be low profit, low risk. I really enjoy using it to learn the game and get my player skills up. Eventually we'll probably be down in Providence and mucking around in Null Sec, but for the time being, HiSec is doing well for me. It's not comfortable but it's a good balance of a place to play and figure out how things work.

Currently doing the PI thing. I think I've got a handle on that but the timing issues of the cycles are just weird.

8 Golden Rules of EVE • EVE is entirely PvP
Violet Hurst
Fedaya Recon
#34 - 2016-06-06 18:28:01 UTC
Nana Skalski wrote:
Violet Hurst wrote:
Nana Skalski wrote:
Not much memory is needed, but you need something to display the results of inner workings.

The latter is the weak spot. Of course there are e.g. lossless compression algorithms for pictures, but if you want to observe them, they have to be decompressed and each pixel has to be rendered, so their state(colour) has to be saved, on your monitor.

Another example: You can build a computer in Minecraft. You could probably also build a computer in Minecraft that runs Minecraft. However if that computer was to run the same instance of Minecraft it was in, it would have to compute a computer that runs Minecraft with a computer in it that runs Minecraft with a computer in it... You'd get to infinite levels of recursion. So moving even a single block would have to be propagated infinite times.

Isnt everything propagated in such way when you see it in the details?

Umm, could you please elaborate that statement?
Shayla Etherodyne
Delta Laroth Industries
#35 - 2016-06-06 18:35:27 UTC
Staine Codekiller wrote:
Just ran a string of combat sites with absolute crap. Friend jumped over to Gallente space and made 700,000,000 in 4 hours with a bunch of Gila BP and Mid-Grade Crystals. I got more Dread light missiles than I know what to do with. Just did 2 greater sleeper sites complete for a whopping 5 million ISK.

The odds are always against you. I can't wait for my buddy to get back to I can gank him.



But then your bad luck will strike again and he will drop only the worthless stuff while the BPC and implants will be destroyed. Twisted
Davian Thule Pirkibo
Caldari 1
Caldari Alliance
#36 - 2016-06-15 21:36:14 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
The entire "risk vs reward" argument has always bothered me. When someone cries over a gank loss, the gankers like to say " Its just meaningless space pixels and imaginary space money". OK, Lets take them at their word. Its all meaningless space pixels and imaginary space money. Losing or gaining something that is meaningless is neither risk or reward.

Where IS the risk and reward in Eve? It has to be in the real world. The risk is $15 a month you spend on the subscription (or the time you spend to grind for a PLEX). The reward is having fun. Given that, the reward for play in high sec should be the same as any other part of space.

CCP: you should not be making changes to any part of space that makes it less fun for those players who prefer to play there.


risk reward "argument"? its the basis behind the games pve system, the more inherent risk there is the resulting reward should theoretically rise. Gankers qoute "its only space pixels" because of the torrents of tears their victims drown them in over a game. that "risk" you just suggested makes no sense when there is trial accounts.
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#37 - 2016-06-15 21:40:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Bumblefck
Vincent Athena wrote:
Bumblefck wrote:
Shiloh Templeton wrote:
CCP will never say, and many people will give the obligatory Random is Random response, but after tracking all my results for the year I'm convinced CCP rebalances the loot tables periodically.







RNG is R


As I said in another thread, it's not. It is a programmed algorithm with totally deterministic results. It is supposed to look random. But if CCP somehow made a programming error, then we could get very non-random results.





I will accept your thesis gladly if you can provide an official link from CCP saying as much

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
Specia1 K
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#38 - 2016-06-16 08:03:39 UTC
Sites are totally sucking lemons right now. And I hate lemonaid.
Went through 4 empires this week to confirm it isn't a localized thing. They all suck.

Time to start jumping wormholes again...

Champion of the Knights of the General Discussion

Thunderdome
Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#39 - 2016-06-16 08:17:22 UTC
leave hisec. Ugh

Just Add Water
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2016-06-16 08:56:03 UTC
Nat Silverguard wrote:
leave hisec. Ugh

well... i cannot say that i'm getting 'all good dr0p' in 0.0 too.... So yeah....

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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