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Reprocessing minerals & Waste

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Schtell DeMar
UICON Trading
#1 - 2016-06-05 14:13:38 UTC
Just getting in to an indy career

all my HS reprocessing skills are at 5
refining 5
refining eff 5

so here's the question

WHY THE HELL IS THE WASTE STILL SO HIGH !!!????

i wouldn't object but you have to pay to refine your ore in to minerals anyway

40+ % of what you've mined turns in to waste

i'd understand 20% though mechanical waste (crap machining work etc.... that's realistic) but 40+ is steep

any insight in to why it's so high would be handy if you can

thanks in advance

Schtell
W33b3l
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2016-06-05 14:40:11 UTC
Is scrap metal processing at 5 also? And how is your standing with the station you are doing the processing in?

They did revamp mod reprocessing a ways back and changed some things. I remember people being upset at the time before realizing how to adust for it, or how it was adjusted. So that might have something to do with the numbers looking worse then they should.
Scarlett LaBlanc
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2016-06-05 15:11:27 UTC
The idea is to move more industry into null sec.

Base refining efficiency in high sec is 50% (some stations are much worse, you have to look!)

In a POS you get 52%

In Low sec you get 54%

Some null sec outposts get much more, in the 60's I seem to recall...

Your skills then add to this. The two you mentioned, refining and refining efficiency AND the ore specific skill (i.e. Omber processing).

For example: I get a 72% yield in a high sec pos, close to 80% in low sec. Those numbers are with perfect skills
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#4 - 2016-06-05 18:03:45 UTC
High waste, is to give wiggle room to ccp to change things, without needing to go and rebase _everything_

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Fuzzwork Enterprises

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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#5 - 2016-06-06 09:55:05 UTC
What used to happen is that CCP would change ship production cost so people would get wind of this and make a ton of those ships then reprocess them and make instant billions. So CCP added additional costs to get around this which was annoying as hell because you had to check two figures for the same minerals. So they decided to remove that and in doing so set the refine rate very low. A lot of people who used to refine rat drops to build stuff as part of their activity were royally screwed by this.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

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Gwenaelle de Ardevon
Ardevon Corporation
#6 - 2016-06-06 10:18:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Gwenaelle de Ardevon
Do you also have the different Ore Reprocessing Skills at 5?


If you are in HS, try to find an open citadel with reprocessing.
You will probably get a better %.

«An hour sitting with a pretty girl on a park bench passes like a minute, but a minute sitting on a hot stove seems like an hour». Albert Einstein - [11, S. 154]

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Kairnoct Cthylla
Order of the Ascended
#7 - 2016-06-06 10:29:25 UTC
Please excuse the noobish nature of my related question, but did I read that correctly that low-sec rates may be better than some null-sec rates? Is this related to some of the stuff I've read about low-sec often being more dangerous than null-sec or am I just having compounded misunderstandings?
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2016-06-06 11:45:47 UTC
low sec rates get multiplied in certain FW zones depending on which militia you are a part of and your control over a system

Art of Explosions
Roenok Baalnorn
Baalnorn Heavy Industries
#9 - 2016-06-06 13:59:18 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
What used to happen is that CCP would change ship production cost so people would get wind of this and make a ton of those ships then reprocess them and make instant billions. So CCP added additional costs to get around this which was annoying as hell because you had to check two figures for the same minerals. So they decided to remove that and in doing so set the refine rate very low. A lot of people who used to refine rat drops to build stuff as part of their activity were royally screwed by this.



From my understanding no one trained the scrap metal reprocessing because you had near perfect refine on mods/ships anyway. I think it was 75%-80% with good standings in high sec npc and you could get much better in POS and null. To fix this this they lowered the base return but increased the overall yield. So with perfect skills and excellent standings you got the same as you did before roughly but now it wasnt a freebie you had to put some effort into it. Think i read that in a dev blog or something.
Ix Method
Doomheim
#10 - 2016-06-07 08:16:16 UTC
Schtell DeMar wrote:
i'd understand 20% though mechanical waste (crap machining work etc.... that's realistic) but 40+ is steep

any insight in to why it's so high would be handy if you can

You're not missing out on anything. It used to take no time at all to train 100% refine on a lot of the lower class ores making a lot of the refining skills pretty much redundant. So they changed things to how they are now, getting 70% or whatever on Veldspar actually gives you as much Trit as you used to get at 100% just now getting Veldspar Reprocessing V has value. It also allows them to more easily buff Low/Null/JSpace yields as ^^

Travelling at the speed of love.
Felix Judge
Regnum Ludorum
#11 - 2016-06-07 08:38:09 UTC
The change (reduction in %) also was a way to get rid of "mineral compression by production": people would build tech I modules in high sec, transport them to nul and refine the very same modules back into minerals. At 100%, this meant no mineral loss; and the modules were much smaller m3-wise than the minerals. Voilá, you had mineral compression without needing a Rorqual or a POS with a compression array.

There were threads and charts about which modules would be best if you wanted this or that mineral most badly.
Knitram Relik
State War Academy
Caldari State
#12 - 2016-06-07 10:19:27 UTC
With perfect skills, a 4% refine implant, and a 54% reprocessing facility you should net just over 78%. You can find a 54% facility at either a citadel that is properly fitted or using an intensive reprocessing array in low sec.

"The problem with quotes on the internet is that it's really hard to verify their authenticity." - Abraham Lincoln
Hallvardr
#13 - 2016-06-07 13:20:48 UTC
"to get rid of "mineral compression by production"" <- yea this. I knew a lot of pilots that did this regularly