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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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please use hor+ instead of vert- for FOV settings
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Albert Madullier
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#1 - 2016-05-30 10:30:57 UTC
ppl buy 21:9 monitors so they can actually view more of the screen, not so that the top and bottom just get chopped off

for a dedicated pc game its really annoying, even console ports use hor+ most of the time
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#2 - 2016-05-30 10:39:15 UTC
Albert Madullier
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#3 - 2016-05-30 10:47:26 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
windowed mode



wow

just wow
FireFrenzy
Cynosural Samurai
#4 - 2016-05-30 12:07:08 UTC
i have played eve in 5760x1080 and have ALWAYS played eve in borderless windowed mode ever since they installed it...

Hell i feel borderless windowed mode is almost mandatory for any game i play that requires looking something up and doesnt have edge of screen scrolling...
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#5 - 2016-05-30 12:23:58 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
windowed mode

That is absolutely not a solution to anything. AS of late, I have to play in window mode for my freighter webbing business (screwed up my alt-tab dialog somehow) and window mode costs me a lot of performance as well as loads of screen real estate. Window mode is the worst of all ways to play any game.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#6 - 2016-05-30 13:22:25 UTC
Actually yeah , that wasent particularly helpfull, sorry about that.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Albert Madullier
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#7 - 2016-05-30 13:42:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Albert Madullier
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Actually yeah , that wasent particularly helpfull, sorry about that.


that's ok

TO EVERYONE : it doesn't matter what mode your playing in it's to do with the in game FOV, i'd suggest looking up HOR+ and VERT- fov's
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#8 - 2016-05-30 14:46:26 UTC
Albert Madullier wrote:
ppl buy 21:9 monitors so they can actually view more of the screen, not so that the top and bottom just get chopped off

for a dedicated pc game its really annoying, even console ports use hor+ most of the time

Even if you get this it still does not solve the problem, it only moves it from those who use the new 21:9 ratio monitors to the vast majority of the computer world that have the 16:9 ratio monitors. Since your desire for the change is based solely on your own personal expectations then it is equally valid to reject your idea for purely personal reasons. Especially when the 16:9 ration is not only the most commonly used it is still considered by most computer makers to be the standard or baseline monitor offered in package deals and it is still the most common for use in laptops.

So in reality you can state that Ralph was not very helpful, but he actually gave you the ultimate answer and that is windows mode. So the choice is yours, loose a little screen space to the window title bar or loose part of the game because it gets cut off, or have unused screen space on the sides the choice is yours.

Someday maybe CCP will have the dev time to re-write the display section of the code so we can all have what we want / need. In the mean time those who have hardware that is in the minority of computer owners are the ones who should suffer not those who are in the majority and with a 21:9 monitor you are definitely in the minority.
Iain Cariaba
#9 - 2016-05-30 17:13:58 UTC
Albert Madullier wrote:
ppl buy 21:9 monitors so they can actually view more of the screen, not so that the top and bottom just get chopped off

for a dedicated pc game its really annoying, even console ports use hor+ most of the time

I require citation that the 21:9 aspect ratio has a significant enough market share to justify devoting CCP's resources into catering to.

I'm not necessarily against the idea. It's just that if you only represent a fraction of a percentage of the market share, I don't see where this would be money well spent by CCP.
Albert Madullier
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#10 - 2016-05-30 17:46:38 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
Albert Madullier wrote:
ppl buy 21:9 monitors so they can actually view more of the screen, not so that the top and bottom just get chopped off

for a dedicated pc game its really annoying, even console ports use hor+ most of the time

Even if you get this it still does not solve the problem, it only moves it from those who use the new 21:9 ratio monitors to the vast majority of the computer world that have the 16:9 ratio monitors. Since your desire for the change is based solely on your own personal expectations then it is equally valid to reject your idea for purely personal reasons. Especially when the 16:9 ration is not only the most commonly used it is still considered by most computer makers to be the standard or baseline monitor offered in package deals and it is still the most common for use in laptops.

So in reality you can state that Ralph was not very helpful, but he actually gave you the ultimate answer and that is windows mode. So the choice is yours, loose a little screen space to the window title bar or loose part of the game because it gets cut off, or have unused screen space on the sides the choice is yours.

Someday maybe CCP will have the dev time to re-write the display section of the code so we can all have what we want / need. In the mean time those who have hardware that is in the minority of computer owners are the ones who should suffer not those who are in the majority and with a 21:9 monitor you are definitely in the minority.



you obviously have no idea on this subject

it doesn't effect anyone with a 16:9 monitor, all it would do is scale the fov correctly for those with 21:9 monitors, nothing would change for 16:9 users, this is a dedicated pc game that doesn't have this yet there are most console ports which scale their fov's correctly so claiming it takes too much development time is pure nonsence
Albert Madullier
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#11 - 2016-05-30 17:48:21 UTC
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Albert Madullier wrote:
ppl buy 21:9 monitors so they can actually view more of the screen, not so that the top and bottom just get chopped off

for a dedicated pc game its really annoying, even console ports use hor+ most of the time

I require citation that the 21:9 aspect ratio has a significant enough market share to justify devoting CCP's resources into catering to.

I'm not necessarily against the idea. It's just that if you only represent a fraction of a percentage of the market share, I don't see where this would be money well spent by CCP.


refer to my quote above
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#12 - 2016-05-30 19:27:07 UTC
Albert Madullier wrote:
ppl buy 21:9 monitors so they can actually view more of the screen, not so that the top and bottom just get chopped off...

you obviously have no idea on this subject

it doesn't effect anyone with a 16:9 monitor, all it would do is scale the fov correctly for those with 21:9 monitors, nothing would change for 16:9 users, this is a dedicated pc game that doesn't have this yet there are most console ports which scale their fov's correctly so claiming it takes too much development time is pure nonsence


Oh but we have a pretty good idea on the subject, honey. See when EVE was written, the client would run on a Pentium II 450MHz and 128MB RAM.
All the client date would fit on a 650MB compact disc and all data you did transfer over the internet was so low that all you needed was a 56k modem.

If you had a CRT monitor flickering at 1024x768@100Hz you had an expensive one. Dreaming of 1920x1080 on a flat screen was pure science fiction at the time.

Most graphic cards barely handle 1920x1200 as it is and of course you must through you printed value paper and pressed cheap metal discs at a problem you have no idea about.

You should take a look at steamgames.com and look for yourself how many people actually have a screen at 21:9.

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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#13 - 2016-05-31 14:19:19 UTC
Albert Madullier wrote:
you obviously have no idea on this subject

it doesn't effect anyone with a 16:9 monitor, all it would do is scale the fov correctly for those with 21:9 monitors, nothing would change for 16:9 users, this is a dedicated pc game that doesn't have this yet there are most console ports which scale their fov's correctly so claiming it takes too much development time is pure nonsence

Ah the tried an true you have no idea because you do not see things my way response.
In the past I was an early adopter of the 16:9 screens and I remember having the same problems you have now. I could see the whole game top to bottom but had unused screen space left right, or I could fill the screen space left, right and have it cut off top and bottom. Why? simple really a game must be able to generate a video feed that supports the aspect ration of a monitor or there will always be cut off top / bottom or unused space left / right and which axis you use to control FOV cannot change this.

And that leads us back to Iain Cariaba's comment about percentage of the games players who have 21:9 and is that group large enough to justify the use of dev time to adapt the game to so it supports the 21:9 format. Like him if those with 21:9 monitors are a small fraction of the total EvE players then the answer is no it is not worth devoting dev time to the project.

From a purely technical and a coding standpoint there is logic behind using the vertical as your FOV reference since most monitors available today will run into problems with cutting off image in the vertical long before they will have problems with cutting it of on the horizontal, my early adopted 16:9 and your 21:9 monitors are perfect examples of this.
Albert Madullier
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#14 - 2016-05-31 14:30:36 UTC
this community is absolutely unbelievable, your putting up resistance to a suggestion that benefits players with ultrawide monitors and has absolutely zero downside to those without them

you guys are ******** idiots
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#15 - 2016-05-31 18:26:08 UTC
Albert Madullier wrote:
this community is absolutely unbelievable, your putting up resistance to a suggestion that benefits players with ultrawide monitors and has absolutely zero downside to those without them

you guys are ******** idiots




As are you, my Friendo


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Iain Cariaba
#16 - 2016-05-31 22:28:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Iain Cariaba
Albert Madullier wrote:
this community is absolutely unbelievable, your putting up resistance to a suggestion that benefits players with ultrawide monitors and has absolutely zero downside to those without them

you guys are ******** idiots

Your "but it won't impact you at all" argument is summarily rejected.

Fact: CCP has a limited amount of resources available for improving the game. Even one programmer spending one hour on a project costs CCP money.
Fact: CCP must be aware of the cost benefit of any project they undertake. Projects that don't impact a significant enough portion of the playerbase do nothing but waste the resources CCP has available.

Now, in my earlier post I challenged you to provide some sort of market data that demonstrates 21:9 aspect ratio comprises at least a minimal percentage of CCP's market. Your response of "it doesn't effect you" is not an acceptable response. Just because an idea doesn't impact me is utterly irrelevant. The question remains, do users of 21:9 aspect ratio screens comprise a high enough segment of the market to justify CCP devoting resources to catering to.

I took it upon myself to do a basic 2 minute market inspection, based only on the ratio of 21:9 screens available for sale on Amazon, NewEgg, and TigerDirect. Of the tens of thousands of different monitors and televisions available for sale on those three sites, there are fewer than a thousand different 21:9 screens. Admittedly this is not an in depth market analysis, but considering model years of 21:9 screens date back to 2005, we can probably safely conclude that you currently represent much less than 1% of the market.

Now, please explain to us why CCP should devote resources into catering to less than 1% of the market.

Edit: Please try to respond with facts and logical arguments, rather than emotional pleas and insults.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#17 - 2016-06-01 14:13:54 UTC
Albert Madullier wrote:
this community is absolutely unbelievable, your putting up resistance to a suggestion that benefits players with ultrawide monitors and has absolutely zero downside to those without them

you guys are ******** idiots

And you again fail to comprehend.
We are not against changing the game. We are against CCP wasting LIMITED developer time for something that would benefit a very small percentage of the games player base.

And in a weird twist you are right but yet you are so wrong.
Having the option to display in 21:9 does not affect anyone that does not need it, in this small way you are correct.
However you are dead wrong in a way that is most important to the community as a whole. As Iain Cariaba points out CCP has limited developer resources if they take some of that limited resource away from other projects to add support for the 21:9 screen ratio they are taking resources away from other projects and that does affect other people in the game.

And no adding support for the 21:9 ratio is not as easy as changing from vertical to a horizontal reference for FOV. Adding support for the 21:9 ratio requires re-writing the entire video generation aspect of a game and that is a major undertaking, been there and done that as the phrase goes.

Since 21:9 monitors have been on the market for nearly a decade and CCP still has not added support for them I think it is safe to say that they have done the math and determined that there is insufficient need based on the player base to justify the costs in dev time to make this change. So as we all wait for this magical day when we can have this I return to an earlier post, you have some options.

Run in windowed mode and loose a little at the top and maybe a little in performance.
Set your FOV so you can see all of the game top / bottom and have unused monitor space left / right.
Set your FOV so you use all the monitor left / right and have it cut off top / bottom.
Or you have the ultimate option, you can simply quit and go play those console games that do offer the video options you want.
WhipDiddyWhip
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#18 - 2016-06-02 09:27:27 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
Albert Madullier wrote:
this community is absolutely unbelievable, your putting up resistance to a suggestion that benefits players with ultrawide monitors and has absolutely zero downside to those without them

you guys are ******** idiots

And you again fail to comprehend.
We are not against changing the game. We are against CCP wasting LIMITED developer time for something that would benefit a very small percentage of the games player base.

And in a weird twist you are right but yet you are so wrong.
Having the option to display in 21:9 does not affect anyone that does not need it, in this small way you are correct.
However you are dead wrong in a way that is most important to the community as a whole. As Iain Cariaba points out CCP has limited developer resources if they take some of that limited resource away from other projects to add support for the 21:9 screen ratio they are taking resources away from other projects and that does affect other people in the game.

And no adding support for the 21:9 ratio is not as easy as changing from vertical to a horizontal reference for FOV. Adding support for the 21:9 ratio requires re-writing the entire video generation aspect of a game and that is a major undertaking, been there and done that as the phrase goes.

Since 21:9 monitors have been on the market for nearly a decade and CCP still has not added support for them I think it is safe to say that they have done the math and determined that there is insufficient need based on the player base to justify the costs in dev time to make this change. So as we all wait for this magical day when we can have this I return to an earlier post, you have some options.

Run in windowed mode and loose a little at the top and maybe a little in performance.
Set your FOV so you can see all of the game top / bottom and have unused monitor space left / right.
Set your FOV so you use all the monitor left / right and have it cut off top / bottom.
Or you have the ultimate option, you can simply quit and go play those console games that do offer the video options you want.


So they have all this time to develop a new camera but not to put a proper 21:9 or scalable fov in? Even though the new camera had this in it already but was removed in the March release
Iain Cariaba
#19 - 2016-06-02 11:55:26 UTC
WhipDiddyWhip wrote:
So they have all this time to develop a new camera but not to put a proper 21:9 or scalable fov in? Even though the new camera had this in it already but was removed in the March release

If the new camera had this removed, then it probably made something more important break.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#20 - 2016-06-02 13:38:07 UTC
WhipDiddyWhip wrote:
So they have all this time to develop a new camera but not to put a proper 21:9 or scalable fov in? Even though the new camera had this in it already but was removed in the March release

You still do not get the major point we are trying to make do you. This is about time spent to add a feature to the program versus the percentage of the game players it would directly effect in a positive way. The new camera affects EVERY PLAYER in the game so the answer to your question is yes adding that was a good idea, especially since players have been asking for a better camera with more controls and options for years.

Your 21:9 support is at the other end of the spectrum and based on limited available information for the computer industry as a whole would affect roughly 5% of the games players. Using dev time to add a feature that directly affects roughly 5% of your players base is not a wise use of developer resources especially in a game that has so many real problems to attend to.

The fact that 21:9 WAS in the new camera and then removed should be your clue that it was causing major problems in some way and it was removed because of those problems.