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Balancing Feedback: Assault Ships

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Takeshi Yamato
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#781 - 2012-01-14 19:54:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Takeshi Yamato
"Role bonus" is a poor choice of words. It should be called "Tracking formula band aid fix" and then maybe we wouldn't have all these posts with silly fantasies about how AFs are going to replace interceptors.
Duchess Starbuckington
Doomheim
#782 - 2012-01-14 20:29:52 UTC
Quote:
1) Thank you for the mid on the retribution. I am a bit worried about a optimal and tracking boost on a laser ship. Scorch plus the ability to swap to muliti in a second make this ship dangerous from all ranges when you give it a tracking boost.

It is however tremendously cap dependant and lacks both a second mid and good speed, so range dictation can be difficult.
Prometheus Exenthal
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#783 - 2012-01-14 20:30:17 UTC
lol now now, wensley and i are both excellent frig pilots in our own right Smile

https://www.youtube.com/user/promsrage

DO YOUR JOBS, CCP DEVS. FIX THE GAME INSTEAD OF FKING IT
Duchess Starbuckington
Doomheim
#784 - 2012-01-14 20:36:05 UTC
Takeshi Yamato wrote:
"Role bonus" is a poor choice of words. It should be called "Tracking formula band aid fix" and then maybe we wouldn't have all these posts with silly fantasies about how AFs are going to replace interceptors.

But AFs are getting an MWD buff! That makes them like interceptors, so they'll replace them!
Never mind the fact interceptors are 2-3x as fast with better scan res and tackle mod bonuses!
Cuko
Shadowflame Cartel
#785 - 2012-01-14 20:50:56 UTC
Duchess Starbuckington wrote:
Quote:
1) Thank you for the mid on the retribution. I am a bit worried about a optimal and tracking boost on a laser ship. Scorch plus the ability to swap to muliti in a second make this ship dangerous from all ranges when you give it a tracking boost.

It is however tremendously cap dependant and lacks both a second mid and good speed, so range dictation can be difficult.


The Retribution can perma run weapon systems and micro-warp drive now. You are able to add other modules to increase velocity without effecting damage output that much. With these changes. It still runs for a very long time with a warp disruptor active (something like 2 min +). Ship can max out @ 2,900m/sec and do 160 with scorch. It will go slower if u decide to gank fit it.


-proxyyyy
Prometheus Exenthal
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#786 - 2012-01-14 20:54:37 UTC
You make it sound like the Retribution can't already do that (without a point) Roll
If that were so amazing then people would be flying them like that all over the place.
Fact of the matter is that such a fit will get eaten a Combat Interceptor or Navy ship.

https://www.youtube.com/user/promsrage

DO YOUR JOBS, CCP DEVS. FIX THE GAME INSTEAD OF FKING IT
Ganthrithor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#787 - 2012-01-14 21:00:11 UTC
I like the idea of an AB bonus better. It suits the ships (they seem to want to be slow, high-dps, tanky frigates) by improving their ability to tank and engage larger opponents while leaving intercepting to the interceptors.
Cuko
Shadowflame Cartel
#788 - 2012-01-14 21:04:39 UTC
+1 Thread
Duchess Starbuckington
Doomheim
#789 - 2012-01-14 21:50:46 UTC
Ganthrithor wrote:
I like the idea of an AB bonus better. It suits the ships (they seem to want to be slow, high-dps, tanky frigates) by improving their ability to tank and engage larger opponents while leaving intercepting to the interceptors.

You're new to this game aren't you? And this thread for that matter.

AB bonus has been tried and tested - and it was completely broken. It's not viable, simple as.
Mors Sanctitatis
Death of Virtue
#790 - 2012-01-14 22:06:15 UTC
Duchess Starbuckington wrote:
Prometheus Exenthal wrote:
Stuff about an AB bonus.

We're 38 pages in, and this still needs to be reiterated for people?
Dear god.

Quote:
A 25% AB bonus would be fairly harmless, but still useful.

Not really, no. As has been stated dozens of times across this thread, there is no middle ground on an AB buff. It's either overpowered, or useless. 25% bonus is useless.



How about 37.5%?

Intelligence shouldn't be free.   Mining, reloaded.   ADDICTED.

Prometheus Exenthal
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#791 - 2012-01-14 22:25:02 UTC
They'd still remain slower than cruisers, and therefore useless for most cases, and overpowered in the rest.

https://www.youtube.com/user/promsrage

DO YOUR JOBS, CCP DEVS. FIX THE GAME INSTEAD OF FKING IT
Duchess Starbuckington
Doomheim
#792 - 2012-01-14 22:39:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington
It's been stated and restated a good dozen times now. I'll put it simply:

Any AB bonus is completely binary - either it's not enough, and it remains pointless - or it's enough, and is horrendously overpowered. There is no middle ground.
Ninevite
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#793 - 2012-01-14 22:42:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Ninevite
So the point of the role bonus is to make AFs more usable in big fleets, though if I was going to take a t2 frigate for the purpose of tackling in a fleet I would just take an inty. Or am I missing something? It's not like AFs can be really of any use for DPS output in bigger engagements
Stukkler Tian
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#794 - 2012-01-14 22:46:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Stukkler Tian
Duchess Starbuckington wrote:

It is however tremendously cap dependant and lacks both a second mid and good speed, so range dictation can be difficult.



Im assuming by second mid you mean 3rd for a web, You are right it will not be able to dictate range. I dont think this will matter as it can be equally effective at and range between 1-20km. The cap dependency is a more resonable counter, dependency being the key word. It is not going to cap out very quickly on its own but neuts especially on bigger ships will give it alot of problems. Im still not sure if a single small neut will be enough to really eat up the massive capacitor of the ship.

Prom I was in no way trying to suggest that you were inferior to Wensly, your record speaks for itself. However you must agree that he is the professor of all things frigate.

Edit: Also the last thing any ship needs is a boost to ab speed.
Duchess Starbuckington
Doomheim
#795 - 2012-01-14 22:52:58 UTC
Quote:
Im assuming by second mid you mean 3rd for a web

Oops. I should not post when tired.
Stukkler Tian
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#796 - 2012-01-14 23:16:45 UTC
no worries my brain works the same way, cut out one mid because almost everything needs a prop
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#797 - 2012-01-15 00:33:46 UTC
The Jaguar needs 10 more CPU and 200 more shield hit points.
Axel Greye
Unlikely Suspects
#798 - 2012-01-15 01:41:46 UTC
The Hawk needs 1 more Ishkur to chew on Prometheus. Lol
Prometheus Exenthal
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#799 - 2012-01-15 08:10:36 UTC
><

https://www.youtube.com/user/promsrage

DO YOUR JOBS, CCP DEVS. FIX THE GAME INSTEAD OF FKING IT
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#800 - 2012-01-15 16:24:47 UTC
Hopefully we get a dev update tomorrow. CCP Tallest is a man of few words - but there aren't that many more shopping days before the 24th.